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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Book shows we can meet hard targets in stopping climate change]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by gogreener</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/no-hair-shirt-solutions-to-global-warming-now-available-free-online/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:05:15 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/no-hair-shirt-solutions-to-global-warming-now-available-free-online/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Thanks<p>Thanks for offering this for free - I look forward to reading it!

<p>---- ---- ----
<a href="http://www.gogreeneraustralia.com/blog" rel="nofollow">Go Greener, Australia - you know you want to.</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Thanks<p>Thanks for offering this for free - I look forward to reading it!

<p>---- ---- ----
<a href="http://www.gogreeneraustralia.com/blog" rel="nofollow">Go Greener, Australia - you know you want to.</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by elbarto</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/no-hair-shirt-solutions-to-global-warming-now-available-free-online/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:41:00 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/no-hair-shirt-solutions-to-global-warming-now-available-free-online/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Highly recommended reading.</strong></p><p>Forward this to everyone you know. In my view it is basically an operating manual for 21st century civilisation. </p><p>
&nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>Highly recommended reading.</strong></p><p>Forward this to everyone you know. In my view it is basically an operating manual for 21st century civilisation. </p><p>
&nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Gareth</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/no-hair-shirt-solutions-to-global-warming-now-available-free-online/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 17:44:37 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/no-hair-shirt-solutions-to-global-warming-now-available-free-online/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Thanks<p>Thanks for making this available, Gar. I look forward to reading it.<p>
I'm not free to do the same with <a href="http://hot-topic.co.nz/" rel="nofollow">Hot Topic, but a PDF version's cheap, and I can do review copies for selected people... &nbsp; ;-)</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Thanks<p>Thanks for making this available, Gar. I look forward to reading it.<p>
I'm not free to do the same with <a href="http://hot-topic.co.nz/" rel="nofollow">Hot Topic, but a PDF version's cheap, and I can do review copies for selected people... &nbsp; ;-)</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by vincentcarragher</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/no-hair-shirt-solutions-to-global-warming-now-available-free-online/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 00:36:24 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/no-hair-shirt-solutions-to-global-warming-now-available-free-online/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>of course we can make changes<p>hi there;<br>
just a quip to back up the backbone of this book.<p>
there is an attitude behaviour gap which needs to be closed for real change.<p>
to see real change please log onto this website which defines the progress made within a community in the non-green Ireland.<p>
anyway here goes <a href="http://www.ul.ie/lowcarbonfutures" rel="nofollow">http://www.ul.ie/lowcarbonfutures<p>
regards<p>
vincent carragher</p></p></a></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>of course we can make changes<p>hi there;<br>
just a quip to back up the backbone of this book.<p>
there is an attitude behaviour gap which needs to be closed for real change.<p>
to see real change please log onto this website which defines the progress made within a community in the non-green Ireland.<p>
anyway here goes <a href="http://www.ul.ie/lowcarbonfutures" rel="nofollow">http://www.ul.ie/lowcarbonfutures<p>
regards<p>
vincent carragher</p></p></a></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Gar Lipow</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/no-hair-shirt-solutions-to-global-warming-now-available-free-online/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 01:22:39 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/no-hair-shirt-solutions-to-global-warming-now-available-free-online/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Hot topic</strong></p><p>If a review copy were to mysteriously appear in my email inbox, the odds are good that a review would follow.</p>
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				<p><strong>Hot topic</strong></p><p>If a review copy were to mysteriously appear in my email inbox, the odds are good that a review would follow.</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by stopgreenpath</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/no-hair-shirt-solutions-to-global-warming-now-available-free-online/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:38:54 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/no-hair-shirt-solutions-to-global-warming-now-available-free-online/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>whaaaaaat?</strong></p><p>man, i'm sure your intentions are good, but how on earth can you have missed the point about how ENORMOUSLY DESTRUCTIVE remote solar and wind "farms" are? &nbsp;do you have any idea how many acres of wilderness are permanently and thoroughly killed for 400MW (which, of course, never means 400MW) of utility scale solar power? &nbsp;between 6,000 and 10,000 acres!! &nbsp;to get enough power, you would need to kill off tens of millions of acres of pristine wilderness - that is completely whacked. &nbsp;we know that you can't kill the rainforests, wetlands, coral reefs, kelp forests, glaciers, etc. so why do you just offhandedly kill the desert without a second thought?</p><p>
you seriously do not even mention it, as though it's no biggie, while you ramble on and on about lengthy transmission and how you can't generate power near cities. &nbsp;it's called rooftop PV, you may have heard of it? &nbsp;it could power 100% of any city in the west during daylight hours, and once storage R &amp; D improves, 100% during all hours, especially when paired with effective CONSERVATION (which is bigger and more effective than "efficiency" alone). &nbsp;</p><p>
urban turbines are also easy to do. &nbsp;it does not have to be "hot" or even "clear" for PV to work, just "light." &nbsp;PV panels also GREATLY reduce "thermal heat island effects" resulting from paving over too much area (like in cities), which will greatly reduce power needs in the form of A/C.</p><p>
man, you gotta dig a lot deeper. &nbsp;check out rocky mountain institute if you want some smart people doing some righteous projects and advocating for clean, profitable, and feasible energy policies - you will see how the big boys rock this topic. &nbsp;keep fighting the good fight, just please think through all the consequences...

<p>the greenest energy is that which you needn't ever produce.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>whaaaaaat?</strong></p><p>man, i'm sure your intentions are good, but how on earth can you have missed the point about how ENORMOUSLY DESTRUCTIVE remote solar and wind "farms" are? &nbsp;do you have any idea how many acres of wilderness are permanently and thoroughly killed for 400MW (which, of course, never means 400MW) of utility scale solar power? &nbsp;between 6,000 and 10,000 acres!! &nbsp;to get enough power, you would need to kill off tens of millions of acres of pristine wilderness - that is completely whacked. &nbsp;we know that you can't kill the rainforests, wetlands, coral reefs, kelp forests, glaciers, etc. so why do you just offhandedly kill the desert without a second thought?</p><p>
you seriously do not even mention it, as though it's no biggie, while you ramble on and on about lengthy transmission and how you can't generate power near cities. &nbsp;it's called rooftop PV, you may have heard of it? &nbsp;it could power 100% of any city in the west during daylight hours, and once storage R &amp; D improves, 100% during all hours, especially when paired with effective CONSERVATION (which is bigger and more effective than "efficiency" alone). &nbsp;</p><p>
urban turbines are also easy to do. &nbsp;it does not have to be "hot" or even "clear" for PV to work, just "light." &nbsp;PV panels also GREATLY reduce "thermal heat island effects" resulting from paving over too much area (like in cities), which will greatly reduce power needs in the form of A/C.</p><p>
man, you gotta dig a lot deeper. &nbsp;check out rocky mountain institute if you want some smart people doing some righteous projects and advocating for clean, profitable, and feasible energy policies - you will see how the big boys rock this topic. &nbsp;keep fighting the good fight, just please think through all the consequences...

<p>the greenest energy is that which you needn't ever produce.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Gar Lipow</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/no-hair-shirt-solutions-to-global-warming-now-available-free-online/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:17:17 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/no-hair-shirt-solutions-to-global-warming-now-available-free-online/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>RMI</strong></p><p>I have been familiar with RMI for as long as they have been in existence, and with Amory Lovins since he first wrote soft energy paths to make a less threatening version of Barry Commoner's arguments.</p><p>
PV is still extremely expensive. And, as I pointed out in the book, total land area to produce all our power from solar thermal and wind farms would be a great deal less than is consumed by hydro and by coal. Not to &nbsp;mention that especially wind, but also solar thermal rest on the land a lot less heavily than coal. </p><p>
As to urban wind turbines. Look at the actual cost per kWh of the things. (Not the manufacturers claims, but actual costs and actual production per turbine.) </p><p>
Look I love the idea of urban turbines. I love the idea of deployment of solar cells on every unshaded rooftop, south wall, and perhaps shading parking lots and roads as well. And I have some real hopes they will be ready soon. But they are not ready on same scale as industrial wind or solar thermal today.</p><p>
Note that when "big boy" Amory Lovins talks about making hydrogen for his absurd hydrogen path from renewables instead of natural gas, he cites industrial wind from the Midwest as the immediate potential source. </p>
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				<p><strong>RMI</strong></p><p>I have been familiar with RMI for as long as they have been in existence, and with Amory Lovins since he first wrote soft energy paths to make a less threatening version of Barry Commoner's arguments.</p><p>
PV is still extremely expensive. And, as I pointed out in the book, total land area to produce all our power from solar thermal and wind farms would be a great deal less than is consumed by hydro and by coal. Not to &nbsp;mention that especially wind, but also solar thermal rest on the land a lot less heavily than coal. </p><p>
As to urban wind turbines. Look at the actual cost per kWh of the things. (Not the manufacturers claims, but actual costs and actual production per turbine.) </p><p>
Look I love the idea of urban turbines. I love the idea of deployment of solar cells on every unshaded rooftop, south wall, and perhaps shading parking lots and roads as well. And I have some real hopes they will be ready soon. But they are not ready on same scale as industrial wind or solar thermal today.</p><p>
Note that when "big boy" Amory Lovins talks about making hydrogen for his absurd hydrogen path from renewables instead of natural gas, he cites industrial wind from the Midwest as the immediate potential source. </p>
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