<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Umbra on aerosols]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Phil Hanson http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/ Mon, 06 Oct 2008 06:07:56 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/1 Aerosol Propellants

Forgive my ignorance, but is there any reason why plain ol' compressed air can't be used as a propellant? I mean, other than the fact that it's not nearly as destructive of the environment as CFCs and HCFCs.

]]> Aerosol Propellants

Forgive my ignorance, but is there any reason why plain ol' compressed air can't be used as a propellant? I mean, other than the fact that it's not nearly as destructive of the environment as CFCs and HCFCs.

]]> Comment #2 by 2wheeler http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/ Tue, 07 Oct 2008 00:35:18 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/2 Spray Cans using only Compressed air

For over 10 years it has been possible to buy refillable, "rechargeable" aerosol spray cans that are powered by good old compressed air.  These would be popular with those who wish to save money by buying the sprayable products in bulk liquid form.  

These items retail for something on the order of 10 bucks and up, which is reasonable for the large scale commercial user who might otherwise consume several cans of a single product each week or month.  They represent an opportunity for waste reduction at several levels.  just search for "refillable aerosol" and you'll find them, I've also seen them in local a local cheap imported tools store.

]]> Spray Cans using only Compressed air

For over 10 years it has been possible to buy refillable, "rechargeable" aerosol spray cans that are powered by good old compressed air.  These would be popular with those who wish to save money by buying the sprayable products in bulk liquid form.  

These items retail for something on the order of 10 bucks and up, which is reasonable for the large scale commercial user who might otherwise consume several cans of a single product each week or month.  They represent an opportunity for waste reduction at several levels.  just search for "refillable aerosol" and you'll find them, I've also seen them in local a local cheap imported tools store.

]]> Comment #3 by redambrosia99 http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/ Tue, 07 Oct 2008 04:00:57 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/3 tiny particles

Also consider that anything in it's aerosol state is very dangerous to your lungs.  The most healthy things can become deadly toxins once they become so tiny.  They get in your lungs and just rip them to shreds.  So always be sure to wear a good face mask and eye protection when dealing with anything that's been aerosol'd.

]]> tiny particles

Also consider that anything in it's aerosol state is very dangerous to your lungs.  The most healthy things can become deadly toxins once they become so tiny.  They get in your lungs and just rip them to shreds.  So always be sure to wear a good face mask and eye protection when dealing with anything that's been aerosol'd.

]]> Comment #4 by rdimont http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/ Wed, 08 Oct 2008 04:00:24 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/4 Aerosol Cans

Aerosol cans can also have CO2 and propane as a propellant. The real problem outside the ozone depleting chemcials is that the product inside the can comes out as a respirable particle that can go deep down into your lungs.  That's what makes hairspray just about as deadly a product as you can use;  people often use it in a confined space, such as a bathroom, and too close to their breathing zone,  net result-lung cancer, emphysema, or other chronic repiratory problems.

]]> Aerosol Cans

Aerosol cans can also have CO2 and propane as a propellant. The real problem outside the ozone depleting chemcials is that the product inside the can comes out as a respirable particle that can go deep down into your lungs.  That's what makes hairspray just about as deadly a product as you can use;  people often use it in a confined space, such as a bathroom, and too close to their breathing zone,  net result-lung cancer, emphysema, or other chronic repiratory problems.

]]> Comment #5 by verkwon http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/ Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:01:22 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/5 why aerosols anyway?

this simply goes back to the first R, reduce.  what is there that you really need that it aerosolized? deodorants? hardly.  essential oils?  these also come in small vials for using in oil candles etc.  it's not that hard.  Reduce.

]]> why aerosols anyway?

this simply goes back to the first R, reduce.  what is there that you really need that it aerosolized? deodorants? hardly.  essential oils?  these also come in small vials for using in oil candles etc.  it's not that hard.  Reduce.

]]> Comment #6 by dougfratz http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/ Wed, 15 Oct 2008 04:08:38 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/6 Errors in Aerosol Products Answer

Grist is a fine website with much useful information.  However, Umbra Fisk's response to this question about aerosol products contains several errors.  First, companies producing aerosol products in the United States stopped using CFCs in 1978.  This was the first phase-out of any CFC uses anywhere.  Other uses for CFCs, such as for refrigerants, also now have been phased out in the US and most of the world.  Second, U.S. aerosol products did not move to HCFC propellants (as was done for refrigeration and air conditioning), but went directly to use of hydrocarbons (natural gas) and compressed gases (nitrogen, carbon dioxide, etc.).  These aerosol propellants have minimal global warming potential (GWP) because both carbon dioxide and nitrogen are obtained from the atmosphere.  Also, while it is true that HFC propellants used in a small number of aerosols contribute to GWP, HFC use is very small and is primarily limited to HFC-152a--the lowest GWP of all HFCs.  The aerosol products industry has worked hard for more than 30 years to assure that aerosol products are environmentally compatible.  I would be glad to provide any further information you need on today's aerosol products.

-D. Douglas Fratz
Vice President, Scientific & Technical Affairs
Aerosol Products Division Staff Executive
Consumer Specialty Products Association, Inc.
900 17th Street, N.W., Suite 300
Washington, DC 20006
Phone: 202-833-7304
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http://www.cspa.org







]]> Errors in Aerosol Products Answer

Grist is a fine website with much useful information.  However, Umbra Fisk's response to this question about aerosol products contains several errors.  First, companies producing aerosol products in the United States stopped using CFCs in 1978.  This was the first phase-out of any CFC uses anywhere.  Other uses for CFCs, such as for refrigerants, also now have been phased out in the US and most of the world.  Second, U.S. aerosol products did not move to HCFC propellants (as was done for refrigeration and air conditioning), but went directly to use of hydrocarbons (natural gas) and compressed gases (nitrogen, carbon dioxide, etc.).  These aerosol propellants have minimal global warming potential (GWP) because both carbon dioxide and nitrogen are obtained from the atmosphere.  Also, while it is true that HFC propellants used in a small number of aerosols contribute to GWP, HFC use is very small and is primarily limited to HFC-152a--the lowest GWP of all HFCs.  The aerosol products industry has worked hard for more than 30 years to assure that aerosol products are environmentally compatible.  I would be glad to provide any further information you need on today's aerosol products.

-D. Douglas Fratz
Vice President, Scientific & Technical Affairs
Aerosol Products Division Staff Executive
Consumer Specialty Products Association, Inc.
900 17th Street, N.W., Suite 300
Washington, DC 20006
Phone: 202-833-7304
(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) //= 0; i=i-1){ if (l[i].substring(0, 1) == ' ') output += "&#"+unescape(l[i].substring(1))+";"; else output += unescape(l[i]); } document.getElementById('eeEncEmail_tCBfBC4P8a').innerHTML = output; //]]>
http://www.cspa.org







]]> Comment #7 by dougfratz http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/ Wed, 15 Oct 2008 04:31:42 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/7 Putting the Air in Aerosols

Aerosol products mostly can't use air as a propellant because air is 20% oxygen, which reacts slowly with other ingredients. Many aerosols do use compressed gases, though, mostly nitrogen (which is most of the other 80% of air)or carbon dioxide.  

]]> Putting the Air in Aerosols

Aerosol products mostly can't use air as a propellant because air is 20% oxygen, which reacts slowly with other ingredients. Many aerosols do use compressed gases, though, mostly nitrogen (which is most of the other 80% of air)or carbon dioxide.  

]]> Comment #8 by dougfratz http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/ Wed, 15 Oct 2008 04:36:13 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/8 Refillable "Aerosols"

I think what you are referring to are relatively large containers that allow liquids to be sprayed with air pressure. These work fine for many commercial or manufacturing operations that have high usage.  They are not the same as the small, recyclable, long-shelf-life products usually thought of as consumer aerosol products.

]]> Refillable "Aerosols"

I think what you are referring to are relatively large containers that allow liquids to be sprayed with air pressure. These work fine for many commercial or manufacturing operations that have high usage.  They are not the same as the small, recyclable, long-shelf-life products usually thought of as consumer aerosol products.

]]> Comment #9 by dougfratz http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/ Wed, 15 Oct 2008 04:45:10 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/no-can-do/9 Particle Toxicity

Inhalation of solid or low-volatility-liquid particles between about 1-10 microns can indeed present risks, although it does depend a lot on the chemistry (and sometimes even shape) of the particle.  These particles are generally referred to as "repirable" because they are small enough that they can travel deeply into the lungs, but not small enough to get re-exhaled. Aerosol products are very carefully designed to minimize respirable particles that could cause respiratory toxicity.  Mostly the particles are 100-1000 microns.  There are millions of valve variations that are used to provide the exact right particle sizes.

]]> Particle Toxicity

Inhalation of solid or low-volatility-liquid particles between about 1-10 microns can indeed present risks, although it does depend a lot on the chemistry (and sometimes even shape) of the particle.  These particles are generally referred to as "repirable" because they are small enough that they can travel deeply into the lungs, but not small enough to get re-exhaled. Aerosol products are very carefully designed to minimize respirable particles that could cause respiratory toxicity.  Mostly the particles are 100-1000 microns.  There are millions of valve variations that are used to provide the exact right particle sizes.

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