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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for It&#8217;s disheartening]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by David Roberts</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/new-polling-data-on-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 07:06:08 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>And to refute this particular talking point,<p>readers need only <a href="/story/2006/12/17/22147/335" rel="nofollow">scroll down a bit.

<p>www.grist.org</p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>And to refute this particular talking point,<p>readers need only <a href="/story/2006/12/17/22147/335" rel="nofollow">scroll down a bit.

<p>www.grist.org</p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by CyberBrook</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/new-polling-data-on-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 07:32:26 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/new-polling-data-on-global-warming/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Meat is a Major Global Warming Issue<p><b>Meat is a Major Global Warming Issue<p>
Another Inconvenient Truth<br>
<a href="http://www.eatkind.net/inconvenient.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.eatkind.net/inconvenient.htm<p>
EarthSave:...<p>
Another Inconvenient Truth: Meat is a Global Warming Issue<br>
<a href="http://www.emagazine.com/view/?3312" rel="nofollow">http://www.emagazine.com/view/?3312<p>
Another Inconv...<p>
UN: Which causes more greenhouse gas emissions, rearing cattle or driving cars?<br>
<a href="http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.ht...<p>
Livestock's Role in Climate Change and Air Pollution (ch. 3)<br>
<a href="http://virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm" rel="nofollow">http://virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A070...<p>
Cow `emissions' more damaging to planet than CO2 from cars<br>
<a href="http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/global_warm_c02.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/global_warm_c02.htm</a></br></p></a></br></p></a></br></p></p></a></br></p></p></a></br></p></b></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Meat is a Major Global Warming Issue<p><b>Meat is a Major Global Warming Issue<p>
Another Inconvenient Truth<br>
<a href="http://www.eatkind.net/inconvenient.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.eatkind.net/inconvenient.htm<p>
EarthSave:...<p>
Another Inconvenient Truth: Meat is a Global Warming Issue<br>
<a href="http://www.emagazine.com/view/?3312" rel="nofollow">http://www.emagazine.com/view/?3312<p>
Another Inconv...<p>
UN: Which causes more greenhouse gas emissions, rearing cattle or driving cars?<br>
<a href="http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.ht...<p>
Livestock's Role in Climate Change and Air Pollution (ch. 3)<br>
<a href="http://virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm" rel="nofollow">http://virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A070...<p>
Cow `emissions' more damaging to planet than CO2 from cars<br>
<a href="http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/global_warm_c02.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/global_warm_c02.htm</a></br></p></a></br></p></a></br></p></p></a></br></p></p></a></br></p></b></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Jason D Scorse</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/new-polling-data-on-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 02:28:22 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/new-polling-data-on-global-warming/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Hmmm....<p>seems like changing one's diet may do more to decrease CO2 emissions than buying that energy-intensive Prius whose life-cycle analysis isn't so much better than an SUV- but that would be radical wouldn't it?<p>
J.S.

<p>J.S. teaches environmental economics and blogs at <a href="http://www.voicesofreason.info" rel="nofollow">http://www.voicesofreason.info.</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Hmmm....<p>seems like changing one's diet may do more to decrease CO2 emissions than buying that energy-intensive Prius whose life-cycle analysis isn't so much better than an SUV- but that would be radical wouldn't it?<p>
J.S.

<p>J.S. teaches environmental economics and blogs at <a href="http://www.voicesofreason.info" rel="nofollow">http://www.voicesofreason.info.</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by ffletcher</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/new-polling-data-on-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 02:57:49 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/new-polling-data-on-global-warming/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Big Macs and Whoppers</strong></p><p>The greenhouse gas footprint of fast food burgers may be considerably larger than just the grills, refrigeration, and facilities. &nbsp;Wonder what the greenhouse footprint is for a pound of hamburger. If the above information is correct I suspect it is over a hundred pounds.</p>
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				<p><strong>Big Macs and Whoppers</strong></p><p>The greenhouse gas footprint of fast food burgers may be considerably larger than just the grills, refrigeration, and facilities. &nbsp;Wonder what the greenhouse footprint is for a pound of hamburger. If the above information is correct I suspect it is over a hundred pounds.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/new-polling-data-on-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 05:32:24 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Jason, three things<p>

The best life cycle analysis I could find (<a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_2_185/ai_n12937459" rel="nofollow">Toyota's--which admittedly has to be biased) shows the Prius reduces CO2 by about a third over a Corolla. Imagine how that would compare to a Hummer. Here is an <a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/10/05/oh-so-a-hummer-is-not-greener-a-prius" rel="nofollow">article pointing out some flaws in the study you didn't give a link to. The Prius is no magic bullet, but it is clearly a radical move in a positive direction. The Prius is enjoying unprecedented success as a high status car. That will eventually end and hopefully will be replaced by products that are even more environmentally benign, as each consumer strives to one up their neighbor (at a subconcious level of course).<p>
Striving to eat less meat in one's diet is analogous to eating less food in general. Both consume more energy than necessary. Obesity is growing all around the world as a result of poverty reduction. In any case, I would not call "eating less" any more radical than "eating less meat." Harping at people to eat less and exercise more would be just as effective as harping at them to eat less meat (not very). We should know by now that asking people to sacrifice does not work. In fact, it tends to be counterproductive. Good luck convincing billions of people to sit in a 55 deg house, go childless, walk to work, forgo a source of food that has been a critical part of the diet in our omnivore genetic lineage for hundreds of thousands of years. <p>
Got any math to back up your suspicion that you could produce less CO2 by changing your diet than by driving a Prius? It is a moot point in my opinion because proposed solutions must be implementable. Human nature prods people to want to drive a car that others envy. The Prius is making huge reductions in CO2 on a life cycle basis, the calls for dietary sacrifice over the last thirty years, zip. Veganism is about as appealing to the masses as riding an electric bike. Both are nice personal choices, but neither hold any potential for significant change because neither will be embraced in large numbers.



<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></a></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Jason, three things<p>

The best life cycle analysis I could find (<a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_2_185/ai_n12937459" rel="nofollow">Toyota's--which admittedly has to be biased) shows the Prius reduces CO2 by about a third over a Corolla. Imagine how that would compare to a Hummer. Here is an <a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/10/05/oh-so-a-hummer-is-not-greener-a-prius" rel="nofollow">article pointing out some flaws in the study you didn't give a link to. The Prius is no magic bullet, but it is clearly a radical move in a positive direction. The Prius is enjoying unprecedented success as a high status car. That will eventually end and hopefully will be replaced by products that are even more environmentally benign, as each consumer strives to one up their neighbor (at a subconcious level of course).<p>
Striving to eat less meat in one's diet is analogous to eating less food in general. Both consume more energy than necessary. Obesity is growing all around the world as a result of poverty reduction. In any case, I would not call "eating less" any more radical than "eating less meat." Harping at people to eat less and exercise more would be just as effective as harping at them to eat less meat (not very). We should know by now that asking people to sacrifice does not work. In fact, it tends to be counterproductive. Good luck convincing billions of people to sit in a 55 deg house, go childless, walk to work, forgo a source of food that has been a critical part of the diet in our omnivore genetic lineage for hundreds of thousands of years. <p>
Got any math to back up your suspicion that you could produce less CO2 by changing your diet than by driving a Prius? It is a moot point in my opinion because proposed solutions must be implementable. Human nature prods people to want to drive a car that others envy. The Prius is making huge reductions in CO2 on a life cycle basis, the calls for dietary sacrifice over the last thirty years, zip. Veganism is about as appealing to the masses as riding an electric bike. Both are nice personal choices, but neither hold any potential for significant change because neither will be embraced in large numbers.



<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></a></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by GreenEngineer</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/new-polling-data-on-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 05:38:30 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/new-polling-data-on-global-warming/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Meat and CO2</strong></p><p>I am perfectly willing to believe that a diet of fast-food burgers puts more carbon in the air than commuting in an SUV (or, at least, more than the difference between commuting in an SUV and doing the same in a Prius).</p><p>
However, having said that, posts like CyberBrook's miss several important points:<br>


 The big CO2 number attached to meat (particularly beef) includes impacts from feeding, processing, and transportation<br>
 thus, local meat has a much lower CO2 footprint<br>
 grassfed beef likewise has a lower CO2 footprint<br>
 backyard meat (chickens, rabbits, etc) eliminates 95% of all the carbon sources associated with meat production<br>
 no meaningful comparison has been made (as far as I have seen) between the carbon impacts of a meat diet and the carbon impacts of a conventionally-grown vegetarian diet</p><p>


I think the point that we should be focusing on, whether we're concerned about global warming or animal welfare, is the destructive nature of the conventional industrial food system. &nbsp;The problem is not the meat, per se. &nbsp;It's the way it is made. &nbsp;And the solution is not to go vegetarian, it's to change our food production system. &nbsp;(Although going meat-light, and carefully sourcing your replacement protein, is a good idea.)</p><p>
Note that I'm not trying to pick on CyberBrook in particular, here. &nbsp;I've seen this same broad-brush thinking expressed by lots of people. &nbsp;It's a problem. &nbsp;Things are not that simple.</br></br></br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Meat and CO2</strong></p><p>I am perfectly willing to believe that a diet of fast-food burgers puts more carbon in the air than commuting in an SUV (or, at least, more than the difference between commuting in an SUV and doing the same in a Prius).</p><p>
However, having said that, posts like CyberBrook's miss several important points:<br>


 The big CO2 number attached to meat (particularly beef) includes impacts from feeding, processing, and transportation<br>
 thus, local meat has a much lower CO2 footprint<br>
 grassfed beef likewise has a lower CO2 footprint<br>
 backyard meat (chickens, rabbits, etc) eliminates 95% of all the carbon sources associated with meat production<br>
 no meaningful comparison has been made (as far as I have seen) between the carbon impacts of a meat diet and the carbon impacts of a conventionally-grown vegetarian diet</p><p>


I think the point that we should be focusing on, whether we're concerned about global warming or animal welfare, is the destructive nature of the conventional industrial food system. &nbsp;The problem is not the meat, per se. &nbsp;It's the way it is made. &nbsp;And the solution is not to go vegetarian, it's to change our food production system. &nbsp;(Although going meat-light, and carefully sourcing your replacement protein, is a good idea.)</p><p>
Note that I'm not trying to pick on CyberBrook in particular, here. &nbsp;I've seen this same broad-brush thinking expressed by lots of people. &nbsp;It's a problem. &nbsp;Things are not that simple.</br></br></br></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by EliRabett</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/new-polling-data-on-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 13:45:02 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>For why this is important</strong></p><p>See the Richard Clarke article in the Washington Post.</p>
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				<p><strong>For why this is important</strong></p><p>See the Richard Clarke article in the Washington Post.</p>
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