<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for A home-built electric bike is working like a champ]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by kmp http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Fri, 08 Sep 2006 04:28:57 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/1 Lazy bones

For all of you people too lazy to ride a regular bike ... David ... consider getting or building one of these. You don't have to pedal hard at all if you don't want to race other bikers.

Now, let's not be unfair BioD.. I believe David's objection to riding a bike was the reading time that he missed out on if he did not take the bus.  I imagine reading on an electric bike is nearly as difficult/impractical/dangerous as it is on a regular bike....

IMO, he should ride his bike to work and get his reading time in by reading to his kids at bedtime - even the WSJ can be entertaining if you use growly bear voices and squeaky princess voices. :)

]]> Lazy bones

For all of you people too lazy to ride a regular bike ... David ... consider getting or building one of these. You don't have to pedal hard at all if you don't want to race other bikers.

Now, let's not be unfair BioD.. I believe David's objection to riding a bike was the reading time that he missed out on if he did not take the bus.  I imagine reading on an electric bike is nearly as difficult/impractical/dangerous as it is on a regular bike....

IMO, he should ride his bike to work and get his reading time in by reading to his kids at bedtime - even the WSJ can be entertaining if you use growly bear voices and squeaky princess voices. :)

]]> Comment #2 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Fri, 08 Sep 2006 05:15:34 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/2 Great !

Sounds like it's working well d!

I bet that battery has some kind of fused wire in it's circuit board you can replace.

The idea of having a kid carrier to get a safety/visibility break from cars is a good one. In case of a crash you could scream, my baby, my baby! To extort a quick cash payoff from distraught drivers.

Well Kaela I think Dave could get some books on tape in his IPOD?  Hehey.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Great !

Sounds like it's working well d!

I bet that battery has some kind of fused wire in it's circuit board you can replace.

The idea of having a kid carrier to get a safety/visibility break from cars is a good one. In case of a crash you could scream, my baby, my baby! To extort a quick cash payoff from distraught drivers.

Well Kaela I think Dave could get some books on tape in his IPOD?  Hehey.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #3 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Fri, 08 Sep 2006 05:19:47 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/3 IPOD dowwnloads

Headline stories read onto Ipod downloads from NYT or other big newspapers?  Don't they have these yet?

Well do it first Grist.  Start a trend, reading for bike commuters.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> IPOD dowwnloads

Headline stories read onto Ipod downloads from NYT or other big newspapers?  Don't they have these yet?

Well do it first Grist.  Start a trend, reading for bike commuters.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #4 by PBrazelton http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Fri, 08 Sep 2006 05:46:21 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/4 Where'd you get it?

BioD - I've read your earlier post, but haven't seen any reference to where you got the kit originally.  I'm very curious now...

]]> Where'd you get it?

BioD - I've read your earlier post, but haven't seen any reference to where you got the kit originally.  I'm very curious now...

]]> Comment #5 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Fri, 08 Sep 2006 13:59:38 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/5 DrX

I hope your suspicion about a replaceable component is right.

PBraxelton

I am hesitant to recomend a business I have only dealt with once and really don't know anything about. E-mail me.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> DrX

I hope your suspicion about a replaceable component is right.

PBraxelton

I am hesitant to recomend a business I have only dealt with once and really don't know anything about. E-mail me.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Comment #6 by Cap http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:46:31 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/6 Thanks for the update

Enjoyed reading the progress you've made on the bike - I've been trying to figure out something similar, and your battery/cargo carrying solution seems one of the most effective around.

How do you secure the batteries while you work/shop/etc?

]]> Thanks for the update

Enjoyed reading the progress you've made on the bike - I've been trying to figure out something similar, and your battery/cargo carrying solution seems one of the most effective around.

How do you secure the batteries while you work/shop/etc?

]]> Comment #7 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Sat, 09 Sep 2006 02:20:49 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/7 Cap

The batteries come with a nice fabric carrying case that has a handle. They sit in a basket over my back tire with a simple bungee to keep them from bouncing. You can easily disconnect them and carry them inside. Give them to a clerk to watch or put them in your shopping cart. I usually leave them on the bike assuming it would be too hard for a thief to disconnect them and run with 20 pounds. So far I have been right. They also have no value to a thief, although most theives are too stupid to know that. You could also come up with a way to lock them to your bike. They only cost about $75 to replace, worse case scenario. The lithiums I put in my backpack.

Now, the lead acids weigh 20 pounds so you don't want to carry them far. The Lithium system weighs five pounds...charge in less than an hour... remarkable really, now to get the price down.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Cap

The batteries come with a nice fabric carrying case that has a handle. They sit in a basket over my back tire with a simple bungee to keep them from bouncing. You can easily disconnect them and carry them inside. Give them to a clerk to watch or put them in your shopping cart. I usually leave them on the bike assuming it would be too hard for a thief to disconnect them and run with 20 pounds. So far I have been right. They also have no value to a thief, although most theives are too stupid to know that. You could also come up with a way to lock them to your bike. They only cost about $75 to replace, worse case scenario. The lithiums I put in my backpack.

Now, the lead acids weigh 20 pounds so you don't want to carry them far. The Lithium system weighs five pounds...charge in less than an hour... remarkable really, now to get the price down.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Comment #8 by Cap http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Sat, 09 Sep 2006 07:19:26 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/8 Batteries and whatnot

I guess an advantage of using one lithium battery at a time is reduced weight - no reason to bring a backup lithium if you're only going a few miles.  Is this why you changed the original plan of using the lithiums in parallel?  Or maybe that's still the plan once the SLA's are spent?

In theory adding an ultracap bank in parallel could result in better acceleration and reduce load spikes on the batteries, resulting in longer life.  I've not tested this in practice, though.  Have you considered trying something like this?

The ultracaps are expensive, but I'm less concerned about today's cost than seeing what can be done with tools that are currently available.  Costs should come down over time.

My 'ideal' bike right now (starting with my old steel-frame mountain bike) is something like a few of these 36v packs in parallel with an ultracap bank, perhaps with a controller to balance loads.  How close we get in the real world remains to be seen...Thanks again for sharing your experience!

]]> Batteries and whatnot

I guess an advantage of using one lithium battery at a time is reduced weight - no reason to bring a backup lithium if you're only going a few miles.  Is this why you changed the original plan of using the lithiums in parallel?  Or maybe that's still the plan once the SLA's are spent?

In theory adding an ultracap bank in parallel could result in better acceleration and reduce load spikes on the batteries, resulting in longer life.  I've not tested this in practice, though.  Have you considered trying something like this?

The ultracaps are expensive, but I'm less concerned about today's cost than seeing what can be done with tools that are currently available.  Costs should come down over time.

My 'ideal' bike right now (starting with my old steel-frame mountain bike) is something like a few of these 36v packs in parallel with an ultracap bank, perhaps with a controller to balance loads.  How close we get in the real world remains to be seen...Thanks again for sharing your experience!

]]> Comment #9 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Sat, 09 Sep 2006 12:14:00 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/9 Exactly,

One battery is adequate for about 6 or 7 miles. I chose not to put them in parallel because the batteries in each pack are matched (within a few percentage of each other in charge) but it is unlikely that the batteries in each pack would match other packs and could back-charge. Using them one at a time is the same as using them in parallel since the current draw never seems to exceed a single pack's capacity. Turning a switch to connect a new battery when one goes dead is trivial and has the advantage of letting you know how much charge you have left, as I mentioned before.

Capacitors would add another layer of complexity. Probably worth it for a car, but maybe not with a bike.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Exactly,

One battery is adequate for about 6 or 7 miles. I chose not to put them in parallel because the batteries in each pack are matched (within a few percentage of each other in charge) but it is unlikely that the batteries in each pack would match other packs and could back-charge. Using them one at a time is the same as using them in parallel since the current draw never seems to exceed a single pack's capacity. Turning a switch to connect a new battery when one goes dead is trivial and has the advantage of letting you know how much charge you have left, as I mentioned before.

Capacitors would add another layer of complexity. Probably worth it for a car, but maybe not with a bike.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Comment #10 by Colecoman1982 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Fri, 15 Sep 2006 02:27:11 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/10 Current draw and other DeWalt pack stuff

Hi,

I stumbled across your posts while roaming the net looking for info on the DeWalt 36V packs.  They seem to be attracting a lot of attention from various groups such as RC vehicle groups, Electric Car groups; and, of course, electric bike groups.  My personal interests lie in electric bikes and, potentially, an electric car conversion.

You seem to be one of the only people working on using the DeWalt packs without gutting them.  I was hoping I could pick your brain about the limitations of the, unmodified, DeWalt packs.

According to a123, the cells inside the pack are rated to provide amperages in he range of 30C continuous and up to 100C in pulses (30 x 2.2Ah and 100 x 2.2Ah respectively).  However, inside the packs DeWalt has included a PCB that most people working on them assume to be a battery management system and, possibly, a motor controller.  This is supported by the exploded parts diagram on the DeWalt support site that shows what looks like a potentiometer attached to the tool trigger of the hammerdrill with it's wires going to the extra input on the battery.

What I'm wondering is whether DeWalt has included amp limits on the PCB that limit the pack's output below the a123 limits.  Can you tell me what the highest amp output you've pushed the pack to is?  Also, have you ever tried messing with the extra terminal on the battery pack?

My end goal, assuming DeWalt hasn't limited the amp output to much, would be to use the built in electronics to eliminate expensive/specialized motor controllers and battery management systems in electric bikes/cars.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

-Colecoman1982

]]> Current draw and other DeWalt pack stuff

Hi,

I stumbled across your posts while roaming the net looking for info on the DeWalt 36V packs.  They seem to be attracting a lot of attention from various groups such as RC vehicle groups, Electric Car groups; and, of course, electric bike groups.  My personal interests lie in electric bikes and, potentially, an electric car conversion.

You seem to be one of the only people working on using the DeWalt packs without gutting them.  I was hoping I could pick your brain about the limitations of the, unmodified, DeWalt packs.

According to a123, the cells inside the pack are rated to provide amperages in he range of 30C continuous and up to 100C in pulses (30 x 2.2Ah and 100 x 2.2Ah respectively).  However, inside the packs DeWalt has included a PCB that most people working on them assume to be a battery management system and, possibly, a motor controller.  This is supported by the exploded parts diagram on the DeWalt support site that shows what looks like a potentiometer attached to the tool trigger of the hammerdrill with it's wires going to the extra input on the battery.

What I'm wondering is whether DeWalt has included amp limits on the PCB that limit the pack's output below the a123 limits.  Can you tell me what the highest amp output you've pushed the pack to is?  Also, have you ever tried messing with the extra terminal on the battery pack?

My end goal, assuming DeWalt hasn't limited the amp output to much, would be to use the built in electronics to eliminate expensive/specialized motor controllers and battery management systems in electric bikes/cars.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

-Colecoman1982

]]> Comment #11 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Fri, 15 Sep 2006 04:39:49 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/11 Wow, now that is an interesting idea.

Instead of using one giant expensive controller, use a couple dozen small ones... hmmm.

I wish I had some answers for you. But I will say, this is the kind of thing that makes technology growth exponential.

I got lucky on my bike because it just happens to use 36 volts, the same as one of these packs. I can keep them seperated and not worry about potential back charging. I have not tried to hook them in parallel because I don't want to risk ruining all three at once.

I have no idea what those potted circuit boards do, and I have not put an ampmeter on my circuit to see what the draw is while I am riding, although I will do that soon.

I do know this much, just don't get your leads backwards when connecting to your bike controller$$$

Sorry I could not be of more help. I expect we will soon be seeing a lot of hot rod cars with batteries in the next few years. I have some ideas of my own waiting for the right batteries.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Wow, now that is an interesting idea.

Instead of using one giant expensive controller, use a couple dozen small ones... hmmm.

I wish I had some answers for you. But I will say, this is the kind of thing that makes technology growth exponential.

I got lucky on my bike because it just happens to use 36 volts, the same as one of these packs. I can keep them seperated and not worry about potential back charging. I have not tried to hook them in parallel because I don't want to risk ruining all three at once.

I have no idea what those potted circuit boards do, and I have not put an ampmeter on my circuit to see what the draw is while I am riding, although I will do that soon.

I do know this much, just don't get your leads backwards when connecting to your bike controller$$$

Sorry I could not be of more help. I expect we will soon be seeing a lot of hot rod cars with batteries in the next few years. I have some ideas of my own waiting for the right batteries.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Comment #12 by Colecoman1982 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:33:00 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/12 Follow-up

Thanks for the response. If you get around to hooking an amp meter up please post the results.

I have some follow-up info.  After I posted my message I came across another forum where someone pointed out that if you take DeWalts hammerdrill spec of 750Watts of output power at the bit and assume a conservative 5% loss from the motor and the gearbox you come up with an amperage rating of ~23amps coming from the battery.  So, it looks like the packs are, at least, capable of producing 10C. Now, whether that is continuous or burst is another story.

Also, if you read the DeWalt hammerdrill manual posted on their support site they specifically mention that the trigger is a variable speed control.  This, along with the parts diagram, on the same site, that shows the trigger module wired to the battery, lends more credence to the idea that there is some sort of motor controller built into the battery pack.

As for the possibility of damaging the packs by running them in parallel; I can only say that, while I seem to remember seeing a site where someone tried to run them in serial and had a pack stop working, I see no reason why they would suffer from a parallel configuration (with the possible exception of the battery balance issue you mentioned).  I don't think you would have any more voltage or current running through each individual battery pack compared to running them alone.  Then again, I can't claim to be much more than an interested tinkerer as my background is in software development so please don't use me as an authority on electronics.

If you're interested in hot rod electric cars, I can recommend this site:

http://www.poormansev.com/index.html

I found something about the way the guy managed to piece together a pretty fast electric drag car on a, relatively, tiny budget impressive and inspiring.  I especially like the way he pieced together the motor controller from $85 in part (though it’s a little crude for my tastes).

-Colecoman1982

]]> Follow-up

Thanks for the response. If you get around to hooking an amp meter up please post the results.

I have some follow-up info.  After I posted my message I came across another forum where someone pointed out that if you take DeWalts hammerdrill spec of 750Watts of output power at the bit and assume a conservative 5% loss from the motor and the gearbox you come up with an amperage rating of ~23amps coming from the battery.  So, it looks like the packs are, at least, capable of producing 10C. Now, whether that is continuous or burst is another story.

Also, if you read the DeWalt hammerdrill manual posted on their support site they specifically mention that the trigger is a variable speed control.  This, along with the parts diagram, on the same site, that shows the trigger module wired to the battery, lends more credence to the idea that there is some sort of motor controller built into the battery pack.

As for the possibility of damaging the packs by running them in parallel; I can only say that, while I seem to remember seeing a site where someone tried to run them in serial and had a pack stop working, I see no reason why they would suffer from a parallel configuration (with the possible exception of the battery balance issue you mentioned).  I don't think you would have any more voltage or current running through each individual battery pack compared to running them alone.  Then again, I can't claim to be much more than an interested tinkerer as my background is in software development so please don't use me as an authority on electronics.

If you're interested in hot rod electric cars, I can recommend this site:

http://www.poormansev.com/index.html

I found something about the way the guy managed to piece together a pretty fast electric drag car on a, relatively, tiny budget impressive and inspiring.  I especially like the way he pieced together the motor controller from $85 in part (though it’s a little crude for my tastes).

-Colecoman1982

]]> Comment #13 by jjackstone http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:54:37 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/13 DeWalt ebikes

Hi,
I'm John

Found this blog a few days ago and thought I'd throw in a few cents. I also have built an ebike running off the DeWalt packs. It may be mine that was referenced about the current calculations and the blown battery pack. I'm attempting to run two packs in series to power my 72V Xlyte. I had purchased an ebike monitor but it didn't work the first time out. Decided to test the bike anyway and ended frying a cell in one of the packs. The one cell is at .9V right now. The other nine cells in the pack are between 2.8 and 3.0V. Just received a new pack and monitor within the last week and will likely be testing again this weekend. I have connected the monitor and it is functional.

It is possible that due to imbalances in the cells that I may not be able run the packs in series. And they are a little expensive to keep replacing. If that is true I can convert to a 36V system fairly easily and do much as BioD is and only run one pack at a time.

As far as the test went other than the fried cell I was impressed. Ran it about six miles on the two batteries and had juice to spare. A123's racing site says you can run these cells down to 2V regularly. As I mentioned earlier other than the one bad cell, the rest were still at a fairly high level. Oh, I did do a shorter three mile run and had no problems at all. During the six mile run the bike ran strong and I averaged about 20mph. Maxes at about thirty(had someone follow me in a car). It would probably run faster but I purposely limited myself to a 20A controller.

I'll throw more info out as I test the system.
Glad to see I'm not the only one trying these things out. JJ

]]> DeWalt ebikes

Hi,
I'm John

Found this blog a few days ago and thought I'd throw in a few cents. I also have built an ebike running off the DeWalt packs. It may be mine that was referenced about the current calculations and the blown battery pack. I'm attempting to run two packs in series to power my 72V Xlyte. I had purchased an ebike monitor but it didn't work the first time out. Decided to test the bike anyway and ended frying a cell in one of the packs. The one cell is at .9V right now. The other nine cells in the pack are between 2.8 and 3.0V. Just received a new pack and monitor within the last week and will likely be testing again this weekend. I have connected the monitor and it is functional.

It is possible that due to imbalances in the cells that I may not be able run the packs in series. And they are a little expensive to keep replacing. If that is true I can convert to a 36V system fairly easily and do much as BioD is and only run one pack at a time.

As far as the test went other than the fried cell I was impressed. Ran it about six miles on the two batteries and had juice to spare. A123's racing site says you can run these cells down to 2V regularly. As I mentioned earlier other than the one bad cell, the rest were still at a fairly high level. Oh, I did do a shorter three mile run and had no problems at all. During the six mile run the bike ran strong and I averaged about 20mph. Maxes at about thirty(had someone follow me in a car). It would probably run faster but I purposely limited myself to a 20A controller.

I'll throw more info out as I test the system.
Glad to see I'm not the only one trying these things out. JJ

]]> Comment #14 by DJWC http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Thu, 16 Nov 2006 00:30:29 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/14 Dewalt Batteries

   Hi guys,
  Great blog! I'm starting to build an electric bike and have decided to use the A123 batteries as well. John, can you either post here, provide links or email me your testing results?((JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) //= 0; i=i-1){ if (l[i].substring(0, 1) == ' ') output += "&#"+unescape(l[i].substring(1))+";"; else output += unescape(l[i]); } document.getElementById('eeEncEmail_wZVuKOLkhe').innerHTML = output; //]]> )

             Thanks,Dave  


]]> Dewalt Batteries

   Hi guys,
  Great blog! I'm starting to build an electric bike and have decided to use the A123 batteries as well. John, can you either post here, provide links or email me your testing results?((JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) //= 0; i=i-1){ if (l[i].substring(0, 1) == ' ') output += "&#"+unescape(l[i].substring(1))+";"; else output += unescape(l[i]); } document.getElementById('eeEncEmail_wZVuKOLkhe').innerHTML = output; //]]> )

             Thanks,Dave  


]]> Comment #15 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Thu, 16 Nov 2006 00:57:40 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/15 Fried my switch just yesterday

If you decide to use a switch to move from pack to pack, make sure it is rated for the current. I also repaired my damaged pack. I found a guy on the net who had a few controllers laying around after having taken the packs apart. I paid a pittance via Paypal and had the thing soldered in place a few days later. The internet will save us.

I will be posting an update with photos soon.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Fried my switch just yesterday

If you decide to use a switch to move from pack to pack, make sure it is rated for the current. I also repaired my damaged pack. I found a guy on the net who had a few controllers laying around after having taken the packs apart. I paid a pittance via Paypal and had the thing soldered in place a few days later. The internet will save us.

I will be posting an update with photos soon.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Comment #16 by jjackstone http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:39:28 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/16 Testing

Hi Dave,

If it's ok with BioD I will post some of my results here. Don'want to be impolite to the host. BioD is this ok with you? JJ

]]> Testing

Hi Dave,

If it's ok with BioD I will post some of my results here. Don'want to be impolite to the host. BioD is this ok with you? JJ

]]> Comment #17 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:46:39 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/17 Go for it

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Go for it

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Comment #18 by jjackstone http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:13:48 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/18 Some Test Results

Hi Guys,

I'm back with some early test results. One thing to note is that on the date of the last entry I toasted a new battery. Again one bad cell. Fortunately I figured out how to repair these. After taking the pack apart I simply placed a C cell(1.5V) across the bad cell. That charged it to 1.1V. Then I series a couple of D cells to create a 3V supply and within a few minutes the cell was up to 2.8V. It was pulling up to 3Amps from the D cells. With the pack reassembled I plugged it into the charger, crossed my fingers, and waited. To my delight the packs charged normally although the two bad packs each took nearly the full hour charge time on the DeWalt charger.

DATE            TIME        V(start)    V(end)
                  RIDING       

11/17/06    11m 13s         67.9     65.8
11/18/06    17m 23s         69.8     65.1
11/20/06    18m 11s         71.0     64.6
11/21/06    16m 11s         69.0     54.5

AHrs    Sp(max)             Sp(ave)
          mph/kph             mph/kph

0.899    25.4/40.9    14.5/23.4
1.300    26.3/42.4    15.3/24.6
1.690    26.8/43.3    16.2/26.1
2.220    28.7/46.3    17.6/28.4

Distance    WHrs     WHrs/          A(max)
m/km                 m/km   

2.73/4.39    55.6    20.4/12.7    24.1
4.60/7.38    85.5    18.6/12.0   
4.90/7.91    102.7    20.9/13.0    24.0
4.90/7.91    128.3    26.1/16.2    24.6

There are probably a few rounding errors on some of these numbers but I don't believe any of them are too far off.

The good news. It appears that I am able to make a five or six mile run with no problems as long as I don't overstress the packs. Both times that a pack would not recharge I had pushed the packs pretty hard. Again referencing the final entry date, you can see that I was going at a little higher speed and also notice that I had consumed 2.2Ahrs of capacity. These cells are rated at 2.3Ahrs.
I am considering drilling holes in the plastic casing of these packs so that I can monitor the individual cell voltage at the beginning and end of each ride. Others and I are under the assumption that the DeWalt chargers balance the cell voltages during each charge cycle. While that is probably true I have to wonder why one cell is being drained so much more that the other nine. The failed cell position was different in the two packs that went bad so that doesn't particularly show a common position failure. Guess I'll just have to do more testing.

JJ                   














]]> Some Test Results

Hi Guys,

I'm back with some early test results. One thing to note is that on the date of the last entry I toasted a new battery. Again one bad cell. Fortunately I figured out how to repair these. After taking the pack apart I simply placed a C cell(1.5V) across the bad cell. That charged it to 1.1V. Then I series a couple of D cells to create a 3V supply and within a few minutes the cell was up to 2.8V. It was pulling up to 3Amps from the D cells. With the pack reassembled I plugged it into the charger, crossed my fingers, and waited. To my delight the packs charged normally although the two bad packs each took nearly the full hour charge time on the DeWalt charger.

DATE            TIME        V(start)    V(end)
                  RIDING       

11/17/06    11m 13s         67.9     65.8
11/18/06    17m 23s         69.8     65.1
11/20/06    18m 11s         71.0     64.6
11/21/06    16m 11s         69.0     54.5

AHrs    Sp(max)             Sp(ave)
          mph/kph             mph/kph

0.899    25.4/40.9    14.5/23.4
1.300    26.3/42.4    15.3/24.6
1.690    26.8/43.3    16.2/26.1
2.220    28.7/46.3    17.6/28.4

Distance    WHrs     WHrs/          A(max)
m/km                 m/km   

2.73/4.39    55.6    20.4/12.7    24.1
4.60/7.38    85.5    18.6/12.0   
4.90/7.91    102.7    20.9/13.0    24.0
4.90/7.91    128.3    26.1/16.2    24.6

There are probably a few rounding errors on some of these numbers but I don't believe any of them are too far off.

The good news. It appears that I am able to make a five or six mile run with no problems as long as I don't overstress the packs. Both times that a pack would not recharge I had pushed the packs pretty hard. Again referencing the final entry date, you can see that I was going at a little higher speed and also notice that I had consumed 2.2Ahrs of capacity. These cells are rated at 2.3Ahrs.
I am considering drilling holes in the plastic casing of these packs so that I can monitor the individual cell voltage at the beginning and end of each ride. Others and I are under the assumption that the DeWalt chargers balance the cell voltages during each charge cycle. While that is probably true I have to wonder why one cell is being drained so much more that the other nine. The failed cell position was different in the two packs that went bad so that doesn't particularly show a common position failure. Guess I'll just have to do more testing.

JJ                   














]]> Comment #19 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:54:47 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/19 Nice post Mr. Jackstone

Really interesting data. I've been waiting for it. Brilliant fix for the dead batteries. My compliments.

The Dewalt charger definitely balances the cell voltages. Leaving it on all night is recomended now and then.

Talk to the A123 rep (Brian) yourself about the mysterious drained cells at this forum.

He is very knowledgeable about the product and will know what is going on. And please let us know what you find out. I may run into this myself one day.

Holy crap... you did almost 18 MPH for almost five miles on two packs? These cells can really take a licking, check out this data.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com


]]> Nice post Mr. Jackstone

Really interesting data. I've been waiting for it. Brilliant fix for the dead batteries. My compliments.

The Dewalt charger definitely balances the cell voltages. Leaving it on all night is recomended now and then.

Talk to the A123 rep (Brian) yourself about the mysterious drained cells at this forum.

He is very knowledgeable about the product and will know what is going on. And please let us know what you find out. I may run into this myself one day.

Holy crap... you did almost 18 MPH for almost five miles on two packs? These cells can really take a licking, check out this data.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com


]]> Comment #20 by DJWC http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:52:20 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/20 Great Info

     Great info..... What is your motor's output rated at?(John and BioD) My concern with using the dewalt's untouched is that I'd need to run too many in parallel(or switched) to commute(12km 1 way) and the 36v,1hp(continous) motor that I will be using would want to draw more amps than available... So I have been leaning towards building my own pack from a123. My experience though in electric motors and batteries is very limited, but my fabricating skills are very good.. All of the e-bike kits don't have what I'm looking for in 1 package... So I'm building my own. The batteries are what's slowing me down on this project. I do not want to use lead acid and I can't find much else out there to use pre-assembled... So all the info that everyone has posted is greatly appreciated!!
       Thank you,
              Dave
               


]]> Great Info

     Great info..... What is your motor's output rated at?(John and BioD) My concern with using the dewalt's untouched is that I'd need to run too many in parallel(or switched) to commute(12km 1 way) and the 36v,1hp(continous) motor that I will be using would want to draw more amps than available... So I have been leaning towards building my own pack from a123. My experience though in electric motors and batteries is very limited, but my fabricating skills are very good.. All of the e-bike kits don't have what I'm looking for in 1 package... So I'm building my own. The batteries are what's slowing me down on this project. I do not want to use lead acid and I can't find much else out there to use pre-assembled... So all the info that everyone has posted is greatly appreciated!!
       Thank you,
              Dave
               


]]> Comment #21 by jjackstone http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:51:47 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/21 More Info

Hi,

Found a link recently to some excellent information about the A123 cells. My guess is that it is the info that one would normally get in the developer's kit. It's at this site.

http://hybrids-plus.com/pmwiki/index.php?n=Ext.A123Cells

]]> More Info

Hi,

Found a link recently to some excellent information about the A123 cells. My guess is that it is the info that one would normally get in the developer's kit. It's at this site.

http://hybrids-plus.com/pmwiki/index.php?n=Ext.A123Cells

]]> Comment #22 by jjackstone http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:54:29 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/22 More Info

Hi,

Found a link recently to some excellent information about the A123 cells. My guess is that it is the info that one would normally get in the developer's kit. It's at this site.

http://hybrids-plus.com/pmwiki/index.php?n=Ext.A123Cells

]]> More Info

Hi,

Found a link recently to some excellent information about the A123 cells. My guess is that it is the info that one would normally get in the developer's kit. It's at this site.

http://hybrids-plus.com/pmwiki/index.php?n=Ext.A123Cells

]]> Comment #23 by davros1973a http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:26:59 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/23 First comment - hello

Hello - I'm new here.  I'm building a battery using the a123systems m1 dewalt (blah blah) cells and I stumbled upon this site today whilst at work administatring nursery education funding for 3 and 4 year olds in Manchester - which is what I do.

I've started a new website today but there's nothing on it yet.  I've decided to put all my work and ideas and experiences (with the cells) on the web as much as I have time for which isn't much what with work commitments (redoing-advanced database system and negotiating stuff with companies) and other commitments and actually trying to do stuff with batteries.  There will be stuff on there eventually.

I'm thinking of making a solid state relay module with linear current limit and short-protection, for high-side or low-side use ... calibrated with a microcontroller (with a look-up table for temperature/voltage VDS) using smart-mosfets.  I figure I could programme it to give 0.1V out for every 1A or something or even pwm out via opto-coupler.  Could use it for 20Khz pwm signal as well for single quadrant dc brushed (non-regen) motor controll, measuring speed from back-emf to get proportional negative feedback for use with a throttle-input (requires calibration with particular motor).  Or it could just switch "on" for other motor controllers.  (This is for battery short-protection and current/coulumb measurement whilst minimising losses - if used for motor-control too then a bonus!)

Anyway - I have my own ideas for simple cell-balancing and pack construction etc. etc. and will eventually put my designs on my website for all to see, and I might try selling some stuff just to recover the cost of all the equipment I've had to buy just to get a decent ebike battery pack because I can't see where I can buy one anywhere ready-made!

I want my M1 cells to last me 3000 cycles (only charge/discharge at average of 1C or less) and I want to charge them using cheap computer power supplies.  So looking at minimum of 50 cells (I have 10, 40 are on order).  

My priority is cell-life more than anything - my Heinzmann dc brushed motor - not the most efficient, only manages 15 to 17 mph ... but can give about 82nm I think and peaks at 2KW (900W continous)... but most of the time I want to keep it at 300W if poss.  Otherwise I'd need more cells to keep at 1c.  I'd prefer 0.3 C or less to really maximise cell-life but havn't the dosh. I'm going to current-limit at possibly 28A so to absolutely avoid damaging or taxing the cells beyond 2.5C

Anyway - I'll go over everything on my website eventually - tune in to see if I get my battery to work properly at all!

I have so many things to do all the time - I might forget about this site altogether ... but hopefully I'll at least remember my own.

best wishes

Dave

Let's talk about batteries.

]]> First comment - hello

Hello - I'm new here.  I'm building a battery using the a123systems m1 dewalt (blah blah) cells and I stumbled upon this site today whilst at work administatring nursery education funding for 3 and 4 year olds in Manchester - which is what I do.

I've started a new website today but there's nothing on it yet.  I've decided to put all my work and ideas and experiences (with the cells) on the web as much as I have time for which isn't much what with work commitments (redoing-advanced database system and negotiating stuff with companies) and other commitments and actually trying to do stuff with batteries.  There will be stuff on there eventually.

I'm thinking of making a solid state relay module with linear current limit and short-protection, for high-side or low-side use ... calibrated with a microcontroller (with a look-up table for temperature/voltage VDS) using smart-mosfets.  I figure I could programme it to give 0.1V out for every 1A or something or even pwm out via opto-coupler.  Could use it for 20Khz pwm signal as well for single quadrant dc brushed (non-regen) motor controll, measuring speed from back-emf to get proportional negative feedback for use with a throttle-input (requires calibration with particular motor).  Or it could just switch "on" for other motor controllers.  (This is for battery short-protection and current/coulumb measurement whilst minimising losses - if used for motor-control too then a bonus!)

Anyway - I have my own ideas for simple cell-balancing and pack construction etc. etc. and will eventually put my designs on my website for all to see, and I might try selling some stuff just to recover the cost of all the equipment I've had to buy just to get a decent ebike battery pack because I can't see where I can buy one anywhere ready-made!

I want my M1 cells to last me 3000 cycles (only charge/discharge at average of 1C or less) and I want to charge them using cheap computer power supplies.  So looking at minimum of 50 cells (I have 10, 40 are on order).  

My priority is cell-life more than anything - my Heinzmann dc brushed motor - not the most efficient, only manages 15 to 17 mph ... but can give about 82nm I think and peaks at 2KW (900W continous)... but most of the time I want to keep it at 300W if poss.  Otherwise I'd need more cells to keep at 1c.  I'd prefer 0.3 C or less to really maximise cell-life but havn't the dosh. I'm going to current-limit at possibly 28A so to absolutely avoid damaging or taxing the cells beyond 2.5C

Anyway - I'll go over everything on my website eventually - tune in to see if I get my battery to work properly at all!

I have so many things to do all the time - I might forget about this site altogether ... but hopefully I'll at least remember my own.

best wishes

Dave

Let's talk about batteries.

]]> Comment #24 by jjackstone http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:10:54 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/24 OOPs

Sorry about the last post. I had more info written but it didn't go through for some reason. Wanted to thank you guys for the compliments.
Dave1 I run a 750W motor which is why I seriesed the packs to keep the current down. Seems to be working so far. Oh, something I may not have made clear. All those data readings I posted earlier were using minimal human power. I only pedalled on takeoff to keep the current pull lower. The last couple days I've been actually pedalling a bit more and can definitely see an improvement in speed or range whichever I prefer at the time.
BioD, Yes these cells run strong. I took your suggestion and wrote to Brian a couple days ago. No reply yet. I have a few pictures over at the A123 racing forum if you guys want to check out the bike. link
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4803317/anchors_5059868...

New Dave,
Just want to say hi. Sounds like a good project.
JJ




]]> OOPs

Sorry about the last post. I had more info written but it didn't go through for some reason. Wanted to thank you guys for the compliments.
Dave1 I run a 750W motor which is why I seriesed the packs to keep the current down. Seems to be working so far. Oh, something I may not have made clear. All those data readings I posted earlier were using minimal human power. I only pedalled on takeoff to keep the current pull lower. The last couple days I've been actually pedalling a bit more and can definitely see an improvement in speed or range whichever I prefer at the time.
BioD, Yes these cells run strong. I took your suggestion and wrote to Brian a couple days ago. No reply yet. I have a few pictures over at the A123 racing forum if you guys want to check out the bike. link
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4803317/anchors_5059868...

New Dave,
Just want to say hi. Sounds like a good project.
JJ




]]> Comment #25 by psmaster http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Tue, 03 Apr 2007 13:05:35 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/25 dewalt 36v packs in series

Does anyone have an update on the success rate of dewalt packs in series (theoretical 72 v, probably closer to 60V when in use)?

Thanx.

]]> dewalt 36v packs in series

Does anyone have an update on the success rate of dewalt packs in series (theoretical 72 v, probably closer to 60V when in use)?

Thanx.

]]> Comment #26 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Tue, 03 Apr 2007 15:04:44 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/26 I have not heard anything new

Read the posts above. JJackson was not having much luck, probably because he had unmatched cells. One way to avoid his problem is to make sure the pack does not charge down too far so that an unmatched battery does not have a chance to go flat. I am about to test them in series. To be safe, I am going to bypass the potted circuit board like they did in the link  below. The circuit board is apparently a power controller. I still intend to use the Dewalt chargers. I have to make sure that I never hook a charged pack to and uncharged one. Also, you do not want to put an old pack in series with a new one. You always want to keep the same two packs as a unit.

I will post my results when I get them, which won't be anytime soon. Let me know if you find anything out.

http://visforvoltage.net/forum-topic/batteries-and-charge ...

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> I have not heard anything new

Read the posts above. JJackson was not having much luck, probably because he had unmatched cells. One way to avoid his problem is to make sure the pack does not charge down too far so that an unmatched battery does not have a chance to go flat. I am about to test them in series. To be safe, I am going to bypass the potted circuit board like they did in the link  below. The circuit board is apparently a power controller. I still intend to use the Dewalt chargers. I have to make sure that I never hook a charged pack to and uncharged one. Also, you do not want to put an old pack in series with a new one. You always want to keep the same two packs as a unit.

I will post my results when I get them, which won't be anytime soon. Let me know if you find anything out.

http://visforvoltage.net/forum-topic/batteries-and-charge ...

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #27 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:09:59 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/27 More info

Mr. Jackstone tells me he has been using two packs in series to commute without bypassing the potted circuit board. It is working fine. So, I won't bother to bypass it after all. Apparently these batteries are almost indestructible. He has severely abused them on occasion. They are the T Rex version of the Ever Ready Bunny.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> More info

Mr. Jackstone tells me he has been using two packs in series to commute without bypassing the potted circuit board. It is working fine. So, I won't bother to bypass it after all. Apparently these batteries are almost indestructible. He has severely abused them on occasion. They are the T Rex version of the Ever Ready Bunny.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #28 by haukom http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:11:55 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/28 Wiring DC9360 to replace lead acid gel cell eBike

I plan to convert my BD36 eBike from lead acid battery to a DeWalt DC9360. The original 12Ah battery pack is more than I need for my short commute (<4 miles RT) and the weight and bulk are a bother. I'm hopeful I can make the commute with a single pack. If that fails, I'll pack a spare and substitute it when the first gives up--perhaps with a switch for convenience some time later. You warn about the +/- leads being unmmarked. Do you have a diagram? Can my original controller from Wilderness Energy handle the change?

]]> Wiring DC9360 to replace lead acid gel cell eBike

I plan to convert my BD36 eBike from lead acid battery to a DeWalt DC9360. The original 12Ah battery pack is more than I need for my short commute (<4 miles RT) and the weight and bulk are a bother. I'm hopeful I can make the commute with a single pack. If that fails, I'll pack a spare and substitute it when the first gives up--perhaps with a switch for convenience some time later. You warn about the +/- leads being unmmarked. Do you have a diagram? Can my original controller from Wilderness Energy handle the change?

]]> Comment #29 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Sat, 14 Apr 2007 15:07:06 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/29 No problem with the controller

The positive and negative terminals are the two outside slots. The negative terminal is on the side with the double slot. Use a voltmeter to verify that if you want. Be prepared to have a little less peak power but the power will hold steady until the battery is dead. Do not mix up the postitive and negative or you will have to find a new potted circuit board for your battery on the internet.

This graph shows the battery will drop down to about 32 volts right away and stay almost flat until you hit 2 amp-hours:

http://hybrids-plus.com/pmwiki/index.php?n=Ext.A123Cells

One battery will just do it if you don't go too fast or hit any long hills. Get a second battery if one comes up a little short and apparently you can run them in parallel no problem.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> No problem with the controller

The positive and negative terminals are the two outside slots. The negative terminal is on the side with the double slot. Use a voltmeter to verify that if you want. Be prepared to have a little less peak power but the power will hold steady until the battery is dead. Do not mix up the postitive and negative or you will have to find a new potted circuit board for your battery on the internet.

This graph shows the battery will drop down to about 32 volts right away and stay almost flat until you hit 2 amp-hours:

http://hybrids-plus.com/pmwiki/index.php?n=Ext.A123Cells

One battery will just do it if you don't go too fast or hit any long hills. Get a second battery if one comes up a little short and apparently you can run them in parallel no problem.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #30 by haukom http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Sun, 15 Apr 2007 07:17:16 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/30 DC9360 Connector

Thanks for the tips, BioD. Is there a pigtail available that will connect to the DC9360 with leads protruding or parts that could be used to construct one? Ideally, I'd like to leave the battery entirely unaltered but make it easy to connect to my existing two pole connector. Is the DeWalt charger essential or could I use the 36 volt charger I use with my lead acid batt? (I assume not but hope burns...)

]]> DC9360 Connector

Thanks for the tips, BioD. Is there a pigtail available that will connect to the DC9360 with leads protruding or parts that could be used to construct one? Ideally, I'd like to leave the battery entirely unaltered but make it easy to connect to my existing two pole connector. Is the DeWalt charger essential or could I use the 36 volt charger I use with my lead acid batt? (I assume not but hope burns...)

]]> Comment #31 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:09:24 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/31 Get thee to Ebay

You can buy brand new Dewalt chargers for about $40 apiece. Buy one for each battery like I did. You cannot use the lead acid charger, but why would you? The Dewalt charger will top them off in 30-40 minutes.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Get thee to Ebay

You can buy brand new Dewalt chargers for about $40 apiece. Buy one for each battery like I did. You cannot use the lead acid charger, but why would you? The Dewalt charger will top them off in 30-40 minutes.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #32 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:16:40 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/32 Oh, and

you can buy a two pole connector at Radio Shack and a few blade connectors for the other ends of the wires. Use duct tape or something to hold the blade connectors apart. Figure out a way not to reverse the polarity by accident (Red is positive). The web site in my original post shows how I made connectors.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Oh, and

you can buy a two pole connector at Radio Shack and a few blade connectors for the other ends of the wires. Use duct tape or something to hold the blade connectors apart. Figure out a way not to reverse the polarity by accident (Red is positive). The web site in my original post shows how I made connectors.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #33 by haukom http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Sat, 26 May 2007 06:15:40 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/33 Blown control board

As recommended last month, I "got thee to eBay", got a DC9000 charger and a DC9360 to run my Wilderness Energy-equipped mountain bike. I built a mounting connector from 1/4" acrylic with copper bars embedded and aligned to insert into the DC9360 slots. All was going well until I tested the battery  with temporary connections. The bike ran for about 10 feet and quit. The charger indicated a bad battery. I opened the DC9360 case and tested the voltage inside the circuit board and got 34.2 volts - zero from the external connectors. I assume I blew the control board but I was very careful about the polarity. Could a poor connection (e.g. alligator clips)have done this? I need to figure out what went wrong before I spend another $125 on a replacement. Also, where'd you get a board replacement and what did it cost? Thx!

]]> Blown control board

As recommended last month, I "got thee to eBay", got a DC9000 charger and a DC9360 to run my Wilderness Energy-equipped mountain bike. I built a mounting connector from 1/4" acrylic with copper bars embedded and aligned to insert into the DC9360 slots. All was going well until I tested the battery  with temporary connections. The bike ran for about 10 feet and quit. The charger indicated a bad battery. I opened the DC9360 case and tested the voltage inside the circuit board and got 34.2 volts - zero from the external connectors. I assume I blew the control board but I was very careful about the polarity. Could a poor connection (e.g. alligator clips)have done this? I need to figure out what went wrong before I spend another $125 on a replacement. Also, where'd you get a board replacement and what did it cost? Thx!

]]> Comment #34 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Sat, 26 May 2007 11:24:11 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/34 The RC guys tear the packs apart to get the cells

and have lots of spare parts to sell, usually you can get a controller for about $10 using pay pal. Get an extra one while you are at it. I have fried two. Once in the rain when something shorted out, once when I crossed wires. Make sure to water proof all connections before riding in heavy rain.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_450/tt.htm

I don't know what blew the board. Is your motor brushed or brushless? Did you ease the trottle on? Next time test the bike upside down with an ammeter in the circuit to see what the current does. Here is the best place to go for technical questions:

http://visforvoltage.net/forum-topic/batteries-and-charge ...

Consider bypassing the controller with two wires going straight out the packs to your motor connector.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> The RC guys tear the packs apart to get the cells

and have lots of spare parts to sell, usually you can get a controller for about $10 using pay pal. Get an extra one while you are at it. I have fried two. Once in the rain when something shorted out, once when I crossed wires. Make sure to water proof all connections before riding in heavy rain.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_450/tt.htm

I don't know what blew the board. Is your motor brushed or brushless? Did you ease the trottle on? Next time test the bike upside down with an ammeter in the circuit to see what the current does. Here is the best place to go for technical questions:

http://visforvoltage.net/forum-topic/batteries-and-charge ...

Consider bypassing the controller with two wires going straight out the packs to your motor connector.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #35 by haukom http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/ Sun, 03 Jun 2007 14:04:56 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-electric-plug-in-hybrid-bike-update/35 My Second Blown DC9360

I triple checked the terminal connections and ran a bench test with the bike upside down. It ran fine--even fast without a load. I rode up and down the flat street with a gentle motor assist. Then I slowly accelerated to full throttle, started up an incline where I usually peddle along with the motor. The Full/Low indicator lights glowed "Low", though I'd just charged it to full. Then poof, another dead battery. Killed by the same thing. I'm convinced my motor is pulling too much current for the DC9360 control module. I can tolerate lower power but how can I control the current draw? Would a fuse save me? Could there be a fuse in the DC9360 that I blew (and could replace)? (Assuming I can find control modules.-Nobody's replied to my post at the RC board.) Any suggestions?

Without benefit of a 2.6 lb. battery, I mounted my 20+ lb. lead acid battery on its side on the lower frame where a water bottle often sits. My 2 wheeled 'Tesla' didn't lose any weight but at least the center of gravity is lower.

]]> My Second Blown DC9360

I triple checked the terminal connections and ran a bench test with the bike upside down. It ran fine--even fast without a load. I rode up and down the flat street with a gentle motor assist. Then I slowly accelerated to full throttle, started up an incline where I usually peddle along with the motor. The Full/Low indicator lights glowed "Low", though I'd just charged it to full. Then poof, another dead battery. Killed by the same thing. I'm convinced my motor is pulling too much current for the DC9360 control module. I can tolerate lower power but how can I control the current draw? Would a fuse save me? Could there be a fuse in the DC9360 that I blew (and could replace)? (Assuming I can find control modules.-Nobody's replied to my post at the RC board.) Any suggestions?

Without benefit of a 2.6 lb. battery, I mounted my 20+ lb. lead acid battery on its side on the lower frame where a water bottle often sits. My 2 wheeled 'Tesla' didn't lose any weight but at least the center of gravity is lower.

]]>