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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for The promise of governmental buyers&#8217; clubs]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by sunflower</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/mr-clinton-goes-to-the-public-goods-markets/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 04:35:35 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>District heating/cooling + deep seasonal storage</strong></p><p></p>
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				<p><strong>District heating/cooling + deep seasonal storage</strong></p><p></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Jonathan M Feldman</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/mr-clinton-goes-to-the-public-goods-markets/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 06:23:51 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Networks of Cities</strong></p><p>I think this is a sound proposal and relates to various work I have been doing. &nbsp;One thing was a study on subways which showed that government intervention actually improved the &nbsp;productivity of the production process; it helped to promote designs to meet the needs of the government purchaser and user. &nbsp;In the economic reconstruction network, we now are investigating the future of such networks in promoting subway production.</p><p>
I would also extend the network to include ties between the U.S. and sympathetic allies in Latin America, Europe and elsewhere. &nbsp;I have called this the creation of a "shadow state."</p><p>
I would note that this idea predates Clinton and its most sophisticated expression was given by the philosopher Peter Kropotkin, from whom I quote at length:</p><p>
"The communes of the next revolution will not only break down the state and substitute free federation &nbsp;for parliamentary rule; they will trust the free organization of food supply and production to free groups of workers...which will federate with like groups in other cities and villages not through the medium of a communal parliament but directly, to accomplish their aim."</p><p>
Given the libertarian and conservative critique of the state, one should consider first-- how the state can actually promote productivity and second -- how accountability structures and governance could be decentalized more locally, to the local state as Rynn also argues.</p><p>
References</p><p>
Jonathan M. Feldman, "The Conversion of Defense Engineers' Skills: Explaining Success and Failure Through Customer-Based Learning, Teaming and Managerial Integration." Chapter 18 in The Defense Industry in the Post-Cold War Era: Corporate Strategy and Public Policy Perspectives, Gerald I. Susman and Sean O'Keefe, eds. Oxford: Elsevier Science, 1998.</p><p>
Jonathan Feldman, "From Warfare State to `Shadow State': Militarism, Economic Depletion and Reconstruction," Social Text, 91, Volume 25, Number 22 Summer, 2007.</p><p>
P. A. Kropotkin, Selected Writings on Anarchism and Revolution, Cambridge, The MIT Press, 1970.</p>
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				<p><strong>Networks of Cities</strong></p><p>I think this is a sound proposal and relates to various work I have been doing. &nbsp;One thing was a study on subways which showed that government intervention actually improved the &nbsp;productivity of the production process; it helped to promote designs to meet the needs of the government purchaser and user. &nbsp;In the economic reconstruction network, we now are investigating the future of such networks in promoting subway production.</p><p>
I would also extend the network to include ties between the U.S. and sympathetic allies in Latin America, Europe and elsewhere. &nbsp;I have called this the creation of a "shadow state."</p><p>
I would note that this idea predates Clinton and its most sophisticated expression was given by the philosopher Peter Kropotkin, from whom I quote at length:</p><p>
"The communes of the next revolution will not only break down the state and substitute free federation &nbsp;for parliamentary rule; they will trust the free organization of food supply and production to free groups of workers...which will federate with like groups in other cities and villages not through the medium of a communal parliament but directly, to accomplish their aim."</p><p>
Given the libertarian and conservative critique of the state, one should consider first-- how the state can actually promote productivity and second -- how accountability structures and governance could be decentalized more locally, to the local state as Rynn also argues.</p><p>
References</p><p>
Jonathan M. Feldman, "The Conversion of Defense Engineers' Skills: Explaining Success and Failure Through Customer-Based Learning, Teaming and Managerial Integration." Chapter 18 in The Defense Industry in the Post-Cold War Era: Corporate Strategy and Public Policy Perspectives, Gerald I. Susman and Sean O'Keefe, eds. Oxford: Elsevier Science, 1998.</p><p>
Jonathan Feldman, "From Warfare State to `Shadow State': Militarism, Economic Depletion and Reconstruction," Social Text, 91, Volume 25, Number 22 Summer, 2007.</p><p>
P. A. Kropotkin, Selected Writings on Anarchism and Revolution, Cambridge, The MIT Press, 1970.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Colin Wright</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/mr-clinton-goes-to-the-public-goods-markets/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:33:50 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/mr-clinton-goes-to-the-public-goods-markets/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>When does decentralization work best?<p>I like this idea of cities (responsible for 75% of GW I see) working together. The radical eco-philospher Murray Bookchin proposed a "confederation of municipalities" as a counter-power to the State about 20 years ago at the tail end of the First (Second?) Wave of Environmentalism. Now we're seeing confederations of cities pushing forward the GW agenda (in the US). Can US cities now work together to guarantee markets for sustainables and mass transit? Why not? (By the way, Seattle has just bought some streetcars from the Czeck Republic and light rail cars from Japan, if my memory serves me.)<p>
With recession looming, I see this possible renewable-energy/mass-transit manufacturing paradigm that Rynn keeps telling us about as a way to both stimulate the economy and transition to low-carbon. <p>
Incidently, Tyler Slocum of Public Citizen recently voiced similar ideas about decentralizing renewable technologies <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/9/12/886/58611/#comment7" rel="nofollow"> here:<br>
<br>
Public Citizen, in contrast, goes to congress and says: "Repeal all subsidies to the coal, nuclear and oil comapnies and instead invest those billions of dollars in grants available to families so they can afford to install home-based solar systems, and so they can afford to make eco-friendly renovations to save energy."<p>
However, I still suspect we would need a national grid that could could connect energy-rich with energy-poor regions. If not, we could see a fracturing of the country into rich and poor states. The BPA and TVA federal programs seem to me good models for expanding into wind, solar and geothermal generation.</p></br></br></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>When does decentralization work best?<p>I like this idea of cities (responsible for 75% of GW I see) working together. The radical eco-philospher Murray Bookchin proposed a "confederation of municipalities" as a counter-power to the State about 20 years ago at the tail end of the First (Second?) Wave of Environmentalism. Now we're seeing confederations of cities pushing forward the GW agenda (in the US). Can US cities now work together to guarantee markets for sustainables and mass transit? Why not? (By the way, Seattle has just bought some streetcars from the Czeck Republic and light rail cars from Japan, if my memory serves me.)<p>
With recession looming, I see this possible renewable-energy/mass-transit manufacturing paradigm that Rynn keeps telling us about as a way to both stimulate the economy and transition to low-carbon. <p>
Incidently, Tyler Slocum of Public Citizen recently voiced similar ideas about decentralizing renewable technologies <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/9/12/886/58611/#comment7" rel="nofollow"> here:<br>
<br>
Public Citizen, in contrast, goes to congress and says: "Repeal all subsidies to the coal, nuclear and oil comapnies and instead invest those billions of dollars in grants available to families so they can afford to install home-based solar systems, and so they can afford to make eco-friendly renovations to save energy."<p>
However, I still suspect we would need a national grid that could could connect energy-rich with energy-poor regions. If not, we could see a fracturing of the country into rich and poor states. The BPA and TVA federal programs seem to me good models for expanding into wind, solar and geothermal generation.</p></br></br></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Adam Stein</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/mr-clinton-goes-to-the-public-goods-markets/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 01:38:38 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Some small corrections<p>Wish I had caught this earlier:<p>
The result of the collaboration of the Clinton Foundation and what is now 40 cities is the Clinton Climate Initiative, which Adam Stein fears <b>quite happily supposes might be a fancy carbon-offset program, but <b>and which looks fairly concrete, at least in the planning stages.<p>
Offsets are funding mechanism for clean energy and efficiency projects, and I would be delighted to see offsets used to fund the C40 project, which strikes me as a really exciting initiative.

<p><a href="http://www.terrapass.com/blog" rel="nofollow">www.terrapass.com/blog</a></p></p></b></b></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Some small corrections<p>Wish I had caught this earlier:<p>
The result of the collaboration of the Clinton Foundation and what is now 40 cities is the Clinton Climate Initiative, which Adam Stein fears <b>quite happily supposes might be a fancy carbon-offset program, but <b>and which looks fairly concrete, at least in the planning stages.<p>
Offsets are funding mechanism for clean energy and efficiency projects, and I would be delighted to see offsets used to fund the C40 project, which strikes me as a really exciting initiative.

<p><a href="http://www.terrapass.com/blog" rel="nofollow">www.terrapass.com/blog</a></p></p></b></b></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/mr-clinton-goes-to-the-public-goods-markets/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 02:28:41 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Adam - Thanks for the clarification</strong></p><p></p>
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				<p><strong>Adam - Thanks for the clarification</strong></p><p></p>
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