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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for How coal CO2 is different from oil CO2]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:58:46 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>So logically....</strong></p><p>

it doesn't matter if cars get better fuel economy; or if you did want to avoid some of the oil-co2, the problem is to decrease mileage and number of cars so that conceivably some oil would be left in the ground....</p><p>
If stopping coal is the priority, is there some reason Hansen is not interested in solar/wind technology?

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				<p><strong>So logically....</strong></p><p>

it doesn't matter if cars get better fuel economy; or if you did want to avoid some of the oil-co2, the problem is to decrease mileage and number of cars so that conceivably some oil would be left in the ground....</p><p>
If stopping coal is the priority, is there some reason Hansen is not interested in solar/wind technology?

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            <title>Comment #2 by sunflower</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:13:05 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Two positives do not make a negative</strong></p><p>Solar power and wind power can not scale fast enough. &nbsp;Oil and gas should be conserved, if possible, to make the coal-free bridge into the future. &nbsp;Gas can be used to displace coal. &nbsp;Existing fuel industries scale quickly. &nbsp;</p><p>
Most important is to focus on coal. &nbsp;Stop expansion then retire old coal plants. &nbsp;Solar, wind, etc. will rush into the vacuum and grow organically as gas prices go up.</p>
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				<p><strong>Two positives do not make a negative</strong></p><p>Solar power and wind power can not scale fast enough. &nbsp;Oil and gas should be conserved, if possible, to make the coal-free bridge into the future. &nbsp;Gas can be used to displace coal. &nbsp;Existing fuel industries scale quickly. &nbsp;</p><p>
Most important is to focus on coal. &nbsp;Stop expansion then retire old coal plants. &nbsp;Solar, wind, etc. will rush into the vacuum and grow organically as gas prices go up.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:17:33 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>And mirrors?...</strong></p><p>...nudge nudge, wink wink?</p><p>
Can't concentrated solar power be scaled more easily than PV or wind turbines? &nbsp;Or what is holding up the scaling of PV or wind turbines?</p>
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				<p><strong>And mirrors?...</strong></p><p>...nudge nudge, wink wink?</p><p>
Can't concentrated solar power be scaled more easily than PV or wind turbines? &nbsp;Or what is holding up the scaling of PV or wind turbines?</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by sunflower</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:35:43 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>The word is power (the troubling meme)</strong></p><p>It takes careful engineering to make renewable energy cost competitive (3 year payback). &nbsp;Making solar power is both the least efficient and most expensive use of solar energy, especially when that solar energy has a nexus with liquid fuels. </p><p>
Existing passive architecture and active solar heat collectors could scale quickly. &nbsp;But the big public stump is that solar energy is rooftop pv, which makes difficulty for James Hansen to use the words 'solar energy' when talking about coal. &nbsp;Wind is experiencing some difficult scale-up problems i.e. no supply of wind turbines for existing customers.</p><p>
gotta go.</p>
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				<p><strong>The word is power (the troubling meme)</strong></p><p>It takes careful engineering to make renewable energy cost competitive (3 year payback). &nbsp;Making solar power is both the least efficient and most expensive use of solar energy, especially when that solar energy has a nexus with liquid fuels. </p><p>
Existing passive architecture and active solar heat collectors could scale quickly. &nbsp;But the big public stump is that solar energy is rooftop pv, which makes difficulty for James Hansen to use the words 'solar energy' when talking about coal. &nbsp;Wind is experiencing some difficult scale-up problems i.e. no supply of wind turbines for existing customers.</p><p>
gotta go.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by DrColes</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:51:16 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>The 100 year old lie<p>The 100 year old con <a href="http://www.InteliOrg.com/archive/FireandIce.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.InteliOrg.com/archive/FireandIce.pdf on climate change.<p>
In order to be an intelligent reader you must have a basic knowledge. &nbsp;Please do your own homework, a starting point <a href="http://www.InteliOrg.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.InteliOrg.com/</a></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>The 100 year old lie<p>The 100 year old con <a href="http://www.InteliOrg.com/archive/FireandIce.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.InteliOrg.com/archive/FireandIce.pdf on climate change.<p>
In order to be an intelligent reader you must have a basic knowledge. &nbsp;Please do your own homework, a starting point <a href="http://www.InteliOrg.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.InteliOrg.com/</a></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 13:03:55 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Gremlins</strong></p><p>&lt;blcoquote&gt;And mirrors?...<br>
...nudge nudge, wink wink?<br>
Can't concentrated solar power be scaled more easily than PV or wind turbines? &nbsp;Or what is holding up the scaling of PV or wind turbines?<br>
</p><p>
Gremlins.</p><p>
What many people overlook is that Renewables actually can scale quite quickly, if not more quickly than Coal.</p><p>
Catch being, incrementatlly it's a matter of questioning, which is better.</p><p>
250MW installed every years.<br>
Or 2500MW installed every 10 years?</p><p>
The answer is the 250MW, since it would be incrementally generating that whole time.</p><p>
So obviously rather than a few gigantic power stations, lots of smaller, quickbuild, installations is better.</br></br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Gremlins</strong></p><p>&lt;blcoquote&gt;And mirrors?...<br>
...nudge nudge, wink wink?<br>
Can't concentrated solar power be scaled more easily than PV or wind turbines? &nbsp;Or what is holding up the scaling of PV or wind turbines?<br>
</p><p>
Gremlins.</p><p>
What many people overlook is that Renewables actually can scale quite quickly, if not more quickly than Coal.</p><p>
Catch being, incrementatlly it's a matter of questioning, which is better.</p><p>
250MW installed every years.<br>
Or 2500MW installed every 10 years?</p><p>
The answer is the 250MW, since it would be incrementally generating that whole time.</p><p>
So obviously rather than a few gigantic power stations, lots of smaller, quickbuild, installations is better.</br></br></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:41:42 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>GreyFlcn --</strong></p><p>Problem is, we need data on manufacturing all of those wind turbines and PVs and Concentrated solar power installations -- not that I'm asking you to do it, it's part of a larger &nbsp;-- a very large project -- that needs to be undertaken.</p>
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				<p><strong>GreyFlcn --</strong></p><p>Problem is, we need data on manufacturing all of those wind turbines and PVs and Concentrated solar power installations -- not that I'm asking you to do it, it's part of a larger &nbsp;-- a very large project -- that needs to be undertaken.</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:44:56 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>and you make a good point...</strong></p><p>..that the first wind installations could be used to build the next generation, etc. -- that's the power of self-reproduction, it can lead to exponential increase in production, which has been the key to growth throughout the industrial era. &nbsp;But we still have to figure out where all the materials will come from, it's not just a problem of energy supply.</p>
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				<p><strong>and you make a good point...</strong></p><p>..that the first wind installations could be used to build the next generation, etc. -- that's the power of self-reproduction, it can lead to exponential increase in production, which has been the key to growth throughout the industrial era. &nbsp;But we still have to figure out where all the materials will come from, it's not just a problem of energy supply.</p>
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