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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Commission on bluefin conservation comes up empty again]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:33:55 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>&quot;global demand for sushi&quot;</strong></p><p>Thanks, Erik, for inviting Carl Safina to send us this. &nbsp;I have from time to time read things by him in magazines of the World Wildlife Fund and the Ocean Conservancy, I think, possibly Audubon too. &nbsp;But I regret not getting around to his books on albatrosses and sea turtles.</p><p>
People in boats at sea, doing whatever they are up to, not just fishing, are historically notoriously difficult to regulate. &nbsp;So while ICCAT may indeed be feckless and corrupt, that should come as no surprise.</p><p>
What is truly frightening, regarding the fate of Atlantic bluefin tunas, is how endangered they are by the perfect storm of global demand and super-efficient methods of extraction and marketing, on top of the age-old problem of the impossibility to enforce regulations.</p><p>
Is there hope, realistically, for a reduction in demand? &nbsp;Has any pro-fish sentiment of consumers, chefs and restaurant-owners really been responsible for relieving the plight of swordfish, or Patagonian toothfish, or sharks? &nbsp;It would be very useful to know what kinds of conservation models may have worked in the past.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>&quot;global demand for sushi&quot;</strong></p><p>Thanks, Erik, for inviting Carl Safina to send us this. &nbsp;I have from time to time read things by him in magazines of the World Wildlife Fund and the Ocean Conservancy, I think, possibly Audubon too. &nbsp;But I regret not getting around to his books on albatrosses and sea turtles.</p><p>
People in boats at sea, doing whatever they are up to, not just fishing, are historically notoriously difficult to regulate. &nbsp;So while ICCAT may indeed be feckless and corrupt, that should come as no surprise.</p><p>
What is truly frightening, regarding the fate of Atlantic bluefin tunas, is how endangered they are by the perfect storm of global demand and super-efficient methods of extraction and marketing, on top of the age-old problem of the impossibility to enforce regulations.</p><p>
Is there hope, realistically, for a reduction in demand? &nbsp;Has any pro-fish sentiment of consumers, chefs and restaurant-owners really been responsible for relieving the plight of swordfish, or Patagonian toothfish, or sharks? &nbsp;It would be very useful to know what kinds of conservation models may have worked in the past.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Sam Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:57:43 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Good article</strong></p><p>Personally, I haven't heard the trade magazines such as National Fisherman note any uptick in swordfish landings and the NOAA/NMFS trends don't seem dramatic so as to constitute a "recovery." &nbsp;But it is true that a massive PR campaign was conducted to stop the swordfish harvest many years ago.</p><p>
There are a few bluefin tuna left in the Atlantic and Pacific but as noted, most today are off Spain, Africa, and inside the Med. And they're running out of them very quickly. &nbsp;They dang sure ain't off the US coast.</p><p>
Many sushi/sashimi joints are now substituting with other fish such as yellowfin tuna, mackerel, and other common species (I love yellowfin myself and it is not endangered). &nbsp;If you want to pay ten or twenty bucks for a match-book sized piece of bluefin, go ahead while it lasts.</p><p>
I repeat my claims made in another post that Italy, France, and Spain should be sanctioned for their wholesale slaughter of bluefin. &nbsp;

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Good article</strong></p><p>Personally, I haven't heard the trade magazines such as National Fisherman note any uptick in swordfish landings and the NOAA/NMFS trends don't seem dramatic so as to constitute a "recovery." &nbsp;But it is true that a massive PR campaign was conducted to stop the swordfish harvest many years ago.</p><p>
There are a few bluefin tuna left in the Atlantic and Pacific but as noted, most today are off Spain, Africa, and inside the Med. And they're running out of them very quickly. &nbsp;They dang sure ain't off the US coast.</p><p>
Many sushi/sashimi joints are now substituting with other fish such as yellowfin tuna, mackerel, and other common species (I love yellowfin myself and it is not endangered). &nbsp;If you want to pay ten or twenty bucks for a match-book sized piece of bluefin, go ahead while it lasts.</p><p>
I repeat my claims made in another post that Italy, France, and Spain should be sanctioned for their wholesale slaughter of bluefin. &nbsp;

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by lorna salzman</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:02:49 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Bluefin tuna</strong></p><p>A food article in last week's NY Times in which the writer, after visiting various food markets in different countries, salivated over the bluefin tuna sushi she tasted in Japan. My letter to the newspaper condemning this kind of ignorant writing went unpublished and I wonder if others had written the NYT also. Reading "ecotourism" and food articles in the NYT and elsewhere reveals abysmal ignorance if not deliberate indifference to these issues. The same is true for most restaurants regarding fish like Chilean sea bass (Patagonian Toothfish), though some chefs are now changing this. Consumers who see articles like these, or endangered fish being sold or served in restaurants should speak out and write in protest. It isnt too late to write the NY Times on this particular issue. I despair when I read these articles and realize that the editors who print these things are still in the dark ages with regard to ecology and endangered species. But I continually remind myself about Carl Safina and his admirable work and that makes me feel a bit better.</p><p>
Lorna Salzman</p>
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				<p><strong>Bluefin tuna</strong></p><p>A food article in last week's NY Times in which the writer, after visiting various food markets in different countries, salivated over the bluefin tuna sushi she tasted in Japan. My letter to the newspaper condemning this kind of ignorant writing went unpublished and I wonder if others had written the NYT also. Reading "ecotourism" and food articles in the NYT and elsewhere reveals abysmal ignorance if not deliberate indifference to these issues. The same is true for most restaurants regarding fish like Chilean sea bass (Patagonian Toothfish), though some chefs are now changing this. Consumers who see articles like these, or endangered fish being sold or served in restaurants should speak out and write in protest. It isnt too late to write the NY Times on this particular issue. I despair when I read these articles and realize that the editors who print these things are still in the dark ages with regard to ecology and endangered species. But I continually remind myself about Carl Safina and his admirable work and that makes me feel a bit better.</p><p>
Lorna Salzman</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Sam Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:00:23 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Update</strong></p><p>ICCAT, an international group formed to help save tuns, voted against a total ban on blue tuna harvesting. &nbsp;It should be said that US fishermen actually wanted this, since in 3 years some of the stocks could at least partially revive. &nbsp;We were out-voted. &nbsp;</p><p>
The ICCAT will now simply enforce existing rules, which are largely unenforced outside their territorial waters. &nbsp;One of the biggest threats are from African countries that allow European boats to fish, whilst paying tariffs and fees. &nbsp;Not only do these factory long-line and trawl ships take in many blue tuna, they catch shark almost ten to one. &nbsp;Birds and turtles are also a significant part of the "by-catch." &nbsp;</p><p>
Some of the stories from EU fisheries observers were truly horrifying. &nbsp;One observer was forced to club 100 sharks to death before they let him have dinner.

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Update</strong></p><p>ICCAT, an international group formed to help save tuns, voted against a total ban on blue tuna harvesting. &nbsp;It should be said that US fishermen actually wanted this, since in 3 years some of the stocks could at least partially revive. &nbsp;We were out-voted. &nbsp;</p><p>
The ICCAT will now simply enforce existing rules, which are largely unenforced outside their territorial waters. &nbsp;One of the biggest threats are from African countries that allow European boats to fish, whilst paying tariffs and fees. &nbsp;Not only do these factory long-line and trawl ships take in many blue tuna, they catch shark almost ten to one. &nbsp;Birds and turtles are also a significant part of the "by-catch." &nbsp;</p><p>
Some of the stories from EU fisheries observers were truly horrifying. &nbsp;One observer was forced to club 100 sharks to death before they let him have dinner.

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Carl Safina</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 02:07:28 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>consumer power</strong></p><p>In response to an earlier comment, consumers can and have made a difference with how fisheries are conducted. They dramatically changed how tuna in the Pacific are netted so as to avoid killing dolphins. (this is not as simple a victory as it sounds, the dolphin-safe methods have much more waste of other kinds of fishes, catch huge numbers of juvenile tuna, and are harder on sharks and sea turtles). Atlantic swordfish recovery has been started by a combination of a high-profile boycott and legal means, and increasingly, niche buyers and sellers are gaining market share doing business with a growing number of eco-conscious seafood lovers. Even WalMart has announced its intention to sell only sustainable seafood in 5 years. So, yes, consumers, even a minority of consumers, can get the attention of an increasingly competitive seafood industry. Of course it works in reverse, too. The insane prices paid in Japan are what is driving the bluefin to depletion or commercial extinction. So, again, consumer power is a major force. Harness it for the good!</p><p>
- Carl Safina</p>
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				<p><strong>consumer power</strong></p><p>In response to an earlier comment, consumers can and have made a difference with how fisheries are conducted. They dramatically changed how tuna in the Pacific are netted so as to avoid killing dolphins. (this is not as simple a victory as it sounds, the dolphin-safe methods have much more waste of other kinds of fishes, catch huge numbers of juvenile tuna, and are harder on sharks and sea turtles). Atlantic swordfish recovery has been started by a combination of a high-profile boycott and legal means, and increasingly, niche buyers and sellers are gaining market share doing business with a growing number of eco-conscious seafood lovers. Even WalMart has announced its intention to sell only sustainable seafood in 5 years. So, yes, consumers, even a minority of consumers, can get the attention of an increasingly competitive seafood industry. Of course it works in reverse, too. The insane prices paid in Japan are what is driving the bluefin to depletion or commercial extinction. So, again, consumer power is a major force. Harness it for the good!</p><p>
- Carl Safina</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Carl Safina</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 02:08:40 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>reply</strong></p><p>The answer is yes. See my response a bit farther down the page.</p><p>
- Carl Safina</p>
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				<p><strong>reply</strong></p><p>The answer is yes. See my response a bit farther down the page.</p><p>
- Carl Safina</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by amc89</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:08:30 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Consumer s definitely can make a difference</strong></p><p>Every time I see such horrible pictures of bluefin tuna being sliced open, I have a cravings for vegetarian sushi. </p><p>
On another topic, another marine issue where consumers are making a difference is the Canada seal hunt. &nbsp;The best way to help end commercial seal hunting is to of course boycott seal fur, but another way to help, especially for those in the U.S. where the sale and importation of all seal products is banned under the Marine Mammal Protection Act, is to boycott Canadian seafood like Canadian snow crabs, since it is the Canadian fishing industry that is behind the commerical seal hunt. &nbsp;Thousands of restaurants and chefs have pledged to reduce or end their sale of Canadian seafood, as well as dozens of seafood suppliers, casinos and supermarket chains. Since the start of the boycott, Canadian government trade statistics reveal that Canadian exports of snow crabs to the United States have dropped by over $350 million, putting even more pressure on the Canadian fishing industry to stop its support for the seal slaughter. </p>
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				<p><strong>Consumer s definitely can make a difference</strong></p><p>Every time I see such horrible pictures of bluefin tuna being sliced open, I have a cravings for vegetarian sushi. </p><p>
On another topic, another marine issue where consumers are making a difference is the Canada seal hunt. &nbsp;The best way to help end commercial seal hunting is to of course boycott seal fur, but another way to help, especially for those in the U.S. where the sale and importation of all seal products is banned under the Marine Mammal Protection Act, is to boycott Canadian seafood like Canadian snow crabs, since it is the Canadian fishing industry that is behind the commerical seal hunt. &nbsp;Thousands of restaurants and chefs have pledged to reduce or end their sale of Canadian seafood, as well as dozens of seafood suppliers, casinos and supermarket chains. Since the start of the boycott, Canadian government trade statistics reveal that Canadian exports of snow crabs to the United States have dropped by over $350 million, putting even more pressure on the Canadian fishing industry to stop its support for the seal slaughter. </p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 05:25:32 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>NY Times; Japan and Canada</strong></p><p>Lorna,<br>
you are absolutely right that the NY Times comes across as basically a consumerist pro-business organ. &nbsp;Its coverage of such subjects as food, travel destinations and automobiles regularly is intended to promote consumption, with never an ethical question asked. &nbsp;Or, if persons with ethical objections are quoted, they are implicitly treated as denizens of the wild, lunatic borderlands.</p><p>
And, to be fair, the NYT is hardly the only MSM vehicle that does that.</p><p>
Carl and AMC,<br>
I believe you, about the effectiveness of consumer pressure, but wish I had more evidence.</p><p>
E.g., is the boycott of Canadian snow crabs and other seafood actually causing Canadian fishers and their promoters in government to rethink their commitment to that horrifying slaughter of juvenile seals that they perpetrate every year? &nbsp;That is hardly apparent.</p><p>
And, while the Japanese owners of a big seafood distributer in New England pulled out of supporting Japanese whaling as the result of a boycott by US consumers of seafood (or so I am given to understand), has that had any negative effect on the slaughter of cetaceans perpetrated by Japanese? &nbsp;I do not think so.</p><p>
As for specifically Japanese demand for bluefin sushi driving up the price of bluefin meat, it would be interesting to know how "traditional" this appetite of theirs is, and whether the bluefin-related concerns of conservationists are being treated as offensive anti-Japanese attacks mounted by racist elites in the West, along the lines of how cetacean slaughter is being defended.</p><p>
It is noteworthy that the peoples of the Levantine coast, the Aegean region, Sicily, the Bay of Naples, Provence, Catalunya and elsewhere in the Mediterranean have been fishing for bluefin tunas, and just about everything else, for a very long time, as Carl Safina points out. &nbsp;So bluefin-fishing is certainly part of their "tradition." &nbsp;But equally traditional is their extremely varied seafood cuisine, in which tunas are not presented as exclusively desirable.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>NY Times; Japan and Canada</strong></p><p>Lorna,<br>
you are absolutely right that the NY Times comes across as basically a consumerist pro-business organ. &nbsp;Its coverage of such subjects as food, travel destinations and automobiles regularly is intended to promote consumption, with never an ethical question asked. &nbsp;Or, if persons with ethical objections are quoted, they are implicitly treated as denizens of the wild, lunatic borderlands.</p><p>
And, to be fair, the NYT is hardly the only MSM vehicle that does that.</p><p>
Carl and AMC,<br>
I believe you, about the effectiveness of consumer pressure, but wish I had more evidence.</p><p>
E.g., is the boycott of Canadian snow crabs and other seafood actually causing Canadian fishers and their promoters in government to rethink their commitment to that horrifying slaughter of juvenile seals that they perpetrate every year? &nbsp;That is hardly apparent.</p><p>
And, while the Japanese owners of a big seafood distributer in New England pulled out of supporting Japanese whaling as the result of a boycott by US consumers of seafood (or so I am given to understand), has that had any negative effect on the slaughter of cetaceans perpetrated by Japanese? &nbsp;I do not think so.</p><p>
As for specifically Japanese demand for bluefin sushi driving up the price of bluefin meat, it would be interesting to know how "traditional" this appetite of theirs is, and whether the bluefin-related concerns of conservationists are being treated as offensive anti-Japanese attacks mounted by racist elites in the West, along the lines of how cetacean slaughter is being defended.</p><p>
It is noteworthy that the peoples of the Levantine coast, the Aegean region, Sicily, the Bay of Naples, Provence, Catalunya and elsewhere in the Mediterranean have been fishing for bluefin tunas, and just about everything else, for a very long time, as Carl Safina points out. &nbsp;So bluefin-fishing is certainly part of their "tradition." &nbsp;But equally traditional is their extremely varied seafood cuisine, in which tunas are not presented as exclusively desirable.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by Erik Hoffner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 05:10:06 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/more-bluefin-blues/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>traditions<p>Canis,<p>
While I'm willing to bet that tuna were traditionally hunted by the Japanese, the zeal for killing whales for food is much less likely to be rooted that deeply. Carl's got a devastating indictment of that practice, which they persist at, even though whale meat is unpopular in Japan. The official line is that "whales are no more intelligent or special than cows, their expanding numbers are depleting fisheries needed by humans, and any complaints about killing them are hypocritical and little more than cultural imperialism." Full post here:<p>
<a href="http://carlsafina.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/more-of-japans-crimes-against-nature/" rel="nofollow">http://carlsafina.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/more-of-japans ...<p>
Erik<br>


<p><a href="http://www.orionsociety.org/ogn" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: 1,100+ grassroots groups working for conservation &amp; more
</a></p></br></p></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>traditions<p>Canis,<p>
While I'm willing to bet that tuna were traditionally hunted by the Japanese, the zeal for killing whales for food is much less likely to be rooted that deeply. Carl's got a devastating indictment of that practice, which they persist at, even though whale meat is unpopular in Japan. The official line is that "whales are no more intelligent or special than cows, their expanding numbers are depleting fisheries needed by humans, and any complaints about killing them are hypocritical and little more than cultural imperialism." Full post here:<p>
<a href="http://carlsafina.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/more-of-japans-crimes-against-nature/" rel="nofollow">http://carlsafina.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/more-of-japans ...<p>
Erik<br>


<p><a href="http://www.orionsociety.org/ogn" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: 1,100+ grassroots groups working for conservation &amp; more
</a></p></br></p></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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