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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Evidently, women, infants, and children in need don&#8217;t deserve organic]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by katakanadian</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 05:27:22 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Biochemistry/Organic chemistry 101 review</strong></p><p>It also bears adding that WIC-approved Jif peanut butter includes among its ingredients not only partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, but also fully hydrogenated vegetable oil. </p><p>
As I recall from my chemistry courses in university, fully hydrogenated fats are not trans-fats but that full saturation makes the (formerly) unsaturated fat into a saturated fat with no double bonds. Partial hydrogenation creates trans-fats by leaving some unsaturated double bonds and is much more dangerous.</p>
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				<p><strong>Biochemistry/Organic chemistry 101 review</strong></p><p>It also bears adding that WIC-approved Jif peanut butter includes among its ingredients not only partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, but also fully hydrogenated vegetable oil. </p><p>
As I recall from my chemistry courses in university, fully hydrogenated fats are not trans-fats but that full saturation makes the (formerly) unsaturated fat into a saturated fat with no double bonds. Partial hydrogenation creates trans-fats by leaving some unsaturated double bonds and is much more dangerous.</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by VTpowderhound</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 07:32:01 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>big agra</strong></p><p>This strikes me as a sop to big food manufacturers &amp; processors, who aren't big into organics. Isn't Kellogg based in Michigan?</p><p>
As always...follow the money.</p>
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				<p><strong>big agra</strong></p><p>This strikes me as a sop to big food manufacturers &amp; processors, who aren't big into organics. Isn't Kellogg based in Michigan?</p><p>
As always...follow the money.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Tom Philpott</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 07:58:52 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>I don't know, VT....<p>To me, it sounds like a bureaucracy panicking over low resources and lots of folks in need. As I understand WIC, every state gets a certain amount of cash, and when it's spent, it's gone. Hence the zeal to pinch pennies. During tough times, the government should be devoting more funds to these key programs, not pushing bureaucrats into insane policy choices. It does, however, seem like state WIC officials overreacted in this case. &nbsp; &nbsp; 

<p><a href="http://www.grist.org/topic/Victual_Reality" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>I don't know, VT....<p>To me, it sounds like a bureaucracy panicking over low resources and lots of folks in need. As I understand WIC, every state gets a certain amount of cash, and when it's spent, it's gone. Hence the zeal to pinch pennies. During tough times, the government should be devoting more funds to these key programs, not pushing bureaucrats into insane policy choices. It does, however, seem like state WIC officials overreacted in this case. &nbsp; &nbsp; 

<p><a href="http://www.grist.org/topic/Victual_Reality" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by KenG</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 22:59:01 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Is the Comparison Vaild</strong></p><p>I think the comparisons may be a little biased.</p><p>
Why compare store brand organic raison bran with name brand sugar cereal? Organic or not, Meijer store brands are pretty horrible.</p><p>
Day in and day out, brown eggs are more expensive than white and are nutritionally identical. Why not disallow them?</p><p>
As for the carrots, the only time I've seen organics cheaper than regular is when they are out of date and about to be thrown out.</p><p>
As for the tomato juice, if V8 sold organic it would be much more expensive. You can't legitimately compare brands without looking at the range. </p><p>
I don't see a convincing case that the WIC rules are inappropriate. </p>
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				<p><strong>Is the Comparison Vaild</strong></p><p>I think the comparisons may be a little biased.</p><p>
Why compare store brand organic raison bran with name brand sugar cereal? Organic or not, Meijer store brands are pretty horrible.</p><p>
Day in and day out, brown eggs are more expensive than white and are nutritionally identical. Why not disallow them?</p><p>
As for the carrots, the only time I've seen organics cheaper than regular is when they are out of date and about to be thrown out.</p><p>
As for the tomato juice, if V8 sold organic it would be much more expensive. You can't legitimately compare brands without looking at the range. </p><p>
I don't see a convincing case that the WIC rules are inappropriate. </p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Liz Borkowski</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 23:47:17 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>on the plus side</strong></p><p>At the national level, at least, the program's been moving slowly in the right direction. USDA has finally reconfigured the WIC food package to include fruits, vegetables, and whole grains (by reducing the amount of egg and dairy products). By August 2009, each participant will be getting $6-$10 a month for produce, out of a total of about $39. This may not sound like a lot, but it's a big step forward.</p><p>
The WIC Farmers' Market Nutrition Program has also been successful in helping participants get fresh, locally grown produce. Participants in the 46 participating states can get coupons good for $10 - 30 worth of farmers' market fruits and vegetables each season, on top of their regular WIC benefits. It would be better if the benefit amount were higher (the maximum was increased from $25 to $30 in 2004), especially now that food prices are increasing so quickly.</p><p>
WIC is far from ideal, and there are certainly ways the state governments can make bad choices about implementation. Overall, though, it's a great program. The more people realize this, the easier it will be to strengthen and improve it.</p>
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				<p><strong>on the plus side</strong></p><p>At the national level, at least, the program's been moving slowly in the right direction. USDA has finally reconfigured the WIC food package to include fruits, vegetables, and whole grains (by reducing the amount of egg and dairy products). By August 2009, each participant will be getting $6-$10 a month for produce, out of a total of about $39. This may not sound like a lot, but it's a big step forward.</p><p>
The WIC Farmers' Market Nutrition Program has also been successful in helping participants get fresh, locally grown produce. Participants in the 46 participating states can get coupons good for $10 - 30 worth of farmers' market fruits and vegetables each season, on top of their regular WIC benefits. It would be better if the benefit amount were higher (the maximum was increased from $25 to $30 in 2004), especially now that food prices are increasing so quickly.</p><p>
WIC is far from ideal, and there are certainly ways the state governments can make bad choices about implementation. Overall, though, it's a great program. The more people realize this, the easier it will be to strengthen and improve it.</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by cbloom</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 16:06:56 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>wic makes me sic</strong></p><p>It's bad enough that we're subsidizing people's bad reproductive choices, but here in Mesa Arizona the farmers market line is half illegal immigrants participating in the programme de wic(pregnant, of course, with an already large family of anchor babies as well) so we get to subsidize the Catholic church's call for more members. I will never spend another penny at a farmers market that is subsidized by wic. </p>
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				<p><strong>wic makes me sic</strong></p><p>It's bad enough that we're subsidizing people's bad reproductive choices, but here in Mesa Arizona the farmers market line is half illegal immigrants participating in the programme de wic(pregnant, of course, with an already large family of anchor babies as well) so we get to subsidize the Catholic church's call for more members. I will never spend another penny at a farmers market that is subsidized by wic. </p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Anastasia</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 03:41:07 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>coupons<p>Michigan's list does seem awfully silly, although all WIC lists are a bit silly. My little sister (not an illegal immigrant, but having babies nonetheless) was elegible for WIC, and I went shopping with her once. They listed exact sizes of cereal boxes and such, so that she couldn't choose a larger box that was on sale. <p>
I think they need to re-do WIC so that each state or area can specify "1 jar of peanut butter, up to $2.00 covered", depending on average price in that area. Then the mother can apply that $2.00 to a larger jar or to an organic PB or whatever she wants. <p>
A few other comments: What is with the egg specifications? Why the heck are they encouraging pregnant women to eat tuna anyway!? And, the milk part is valid because that's the current law, like it or not. 

<p>For more scientific discussion on GMOs, visit my blog: <a href="http://www.geneticmaize.com" rel="nofollow">GeneticMaize.</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>coupons<p>Michigan's list does seem awfully silly, although all WIC lists are a bit silly. My little sister (not an illegal immigrant, but having babies nonetheless) was elegible for WIC, and I went shopping with her once. They listed exact sizes of cereal boxes and such, so that she couldn't choose a larger box that was on sale. <p>
I think they need to re-do WIC so that each state or area can specify "1 jar of peanut butter, up to $2.00 covered", depending on average price in that area. Then the mother can apply that $2.00 to a larger jar or to an organic PB or whatever she wants. <p>
A few other comments: What is with the egg specifications? Why the heck are they encouraging pregnant women to eat tuna anyway!? And, the milk part is valid because that's the current law, like it or not. 

<p>For more scientific discussion on GMOs, visit my blog: <a href="http://www.geneticmaize.com" rel="nofollow">GeneticMaize.</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by MAD MAC</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 23:17:50 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/michigan-wic-whacks-organic/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Bloom</strong></p><p>I sympathize with your position, but the kids involved are hardly at fault. In situations where people are morons, making stupid life choices, it really puts any kind of compassionate society in a bind. You want to help the less fortunate, on the other hand, you don't want to encourage more idiotic behavior. Some issues have no simple answers.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Bloom</strong></p><p>I sympathize with your position, but the kids involved are hardly at fault. In situations where people are morons, making stupid life choices, it really puts any kind of compassionate society in a bind. You want to help the less fortunate, on the other hand, you don't want to encourage more idiotic behavior. Some issues have no simple answers.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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