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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for OSHA looks the other way while poultry giants abuse workers]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by amc89</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:24:35 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>farm-to-school programs</strong></p><p>It's not surprising that corporations that treats animals so cruelly also would try to cover up worker abuses. &nbsp;Opponents of animal protection like to accuse animal advocates of not caring about human abuse but as this chicken plant story indicates, it's the animal abuse sympathizers that should be taking lessons in human empathy. Animal, human and environmental abuse is so often connected. &nbsp;</p><p>
These stories point to the need for green, labor, immigrant and animal activists to work together to combat factory farming and promote eating lower on the food chain. &nbsp;Among the first campaigns should be getting more farm-to-school programs off the ground so beef and chicken from horrible meat packers like these don't get into children's school lunches. &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>farm-to-school programs</strong></p><p>It's not surprising that corporations that treats animals so cruelly also would try to cover up worker abuses. &nbsp;Opponents of animal protection like to accuse animal advocates of not caring about human abuse but as this chicken plant story indicates, it's the animal abuse sympathizers that should be taking lessons in human empathy. Animal, human and environmental abuse is so often connected. &nbsp;</p><p>
These stories point to the need for green, labor, immigrant and animal activists to work together to combat factory farming and promote eating lower on the food chain. &nbsp;Among the first campaigns should be getting more farm-to-school programs off the ground so beef and chicken from horrible meat packers like these don't get into children's school lunches. &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 17:04:33 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>kindness knows no distinctions</strong></p><p>Thanks for this, Tom. &nbsp;It is very well done that the Charlotte Observer reporter should be concentrating on working conditions, and management/labor relations, and leave the treatment of the poultry to another time.</p><p>
AMC is absolutely right, and it is something that we should insist upon: people who are disturbed by abuse that affects one class of victim are certainly not insensitive to related abuse affecting others; we are natural allies. &nbsp;The most thoughtful animal welfare organizations, such as Best Friends of Kanab, Utah -- which is the subject of a National Geographic series called "Dogtown," and also recently received attention from CNN's Anderson Cooper for taking in a large number of Michael Vick's pit bulls -- , make it clear that kindness to animals is indivisibly bound up with kindness and justice to human beings.</p><p>
It was natural for John Edwards to shift his emphasis on ending poverty to protesting pig CAFOs in NC. &nbsp;And I hope that he sees this article on House of Raeford, and, since he has some time on his hands, takes it upon himself to begin a reform of the industry.</p><p>
Since many of the workers at House of Raeford are Latino, it would be interesting to know more about how immigration status affects their employment. &nbsp;For one reason or another, the reporter chose not to pursue that matter; but it is well known that many undocumented workers dare never to complain or make requests or bring grievances against any superiors, because they have no more than minimal rights, and can be threatened with deportation at any time.</p><p>
Note this grotesque bit of klutziness, reported in the Charlotte Observer article:</p><p>
&lt;&lt;<br>
House of Raeford says it looks out for the safety of workers and treats them with respect.</p><p>
"We come to work with five fingers and toes," said company safety director Bill Lewis. "And we go home with the same thing we came in with."<br>
&gt;&gt;</p><p>
Of course most of us, when we came into the world, had a few more than five digits.</p><p>
On another matter: As it happens, I put a link to the very same HSUS page, about downed cows, that you have linked to here, in the "Edible Media" thread, without knowing that you had already made it available.<br>


<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>kindness knows no distinctions</strong></p><p>Thanks for this, Tom. &nbsp;It is very well done that the Charlotte Observer reporter should be concentrating on working conditions, and management/labor relations, and leave the treatment of the poultry to another time.</p><p>
AMC is absolutely right, and it is something that we should insist upon: people who are disturbed by abuse that affects one class of victim are certainly not insensitive to related abuse affecting others; we are natural allies. &nbsp;The most thoughtful animal welfare organizations, such as Best Friends of Kanab, Utah -- which is the subject of a National Geographic series called "Dogtown," and also recently received attention from CNN's Anderson Cooper for taking in a large number of Michael Vick's pit bulls -- , make it clear that kindness to animals is indivisibly bound up with kindness and justice to human beings.</p><p>
It was natural for John Edwards to shift his emphasis on ending poverty to protesting pig CAFOs in NC. &nbsp;And I hope that he sees this article on House of Raeford, and, since he has some time on his hands, takes it upon himself to begin a reform of the industry.</p><p>
Since many of the workers at House of Raeford are Latino, it would be interesting to know more about how immigration status affects their employment. &nbsp;For one reason or another, the reporter chose not to pursue that matter; but it is well known that many undocumented workers dare never to complain or make requests or bring grievances against any superiors, because they have no more than minimal rights, and can be threatened with deportation at any time.</p><p>
Note this grotesque bit of klutziness, reported in the Charlotte Observer article:</p><p>
&lt;&lt;<br>
House of Raeford says it looks out for the safety of workers and treats them with respect.</p><p>
"We come to work with five fingers and toes," said company safety director Bill Lewis. "And we go home with the same thing we came in with."<br>
&gt;&gt;</p><p>
Of course most of us, when we came into the world, had a few more than five digits.</p><p>
On another matter: As it happens, I put a link to the very same HSUS page, about downed cows, that you have linked to here, in the "Edible Media" thread, without knowing that you had already made it available.<br>


<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></br></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 17:15:23 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>entomophagy, the next big thing<p>Suggesting that the time is at hand for us to move away from the traditional animals raised in the West for food, "Man Bites Insect," by Sam Nejame, in the latest Sunday New York Times Magazine, is a must-read:<p>
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/magazine/10wwln-essay-t.html?_r=1&amp;ref=magazine&amp;oref=slogin" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/magazine/10wwln-essay-t ...<p>
I have been quietly pushing for this for a long time now. &nbsp;My guess is that grubs or larvas may be prepared more palatably for most adventuresome diners than adult insects. &nbsp;But small adults, such as chapulines, are no problem really.<p>
The issue of sentience, though, remains serious, no less so than in the case of shrimps, crabs and lobsters, to whom insects are not too distantly related, and with whom they share a comparable neurology.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>entomophagy, the next big thing<p>Suggesting that the time is at hand for us to move away from the traditional animals raised in the West for food, "Man Bites Insect," by Sam Nejame, in the latest Sunday New York Times Magazine, is a must-read:<p>
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/magazine/10wwln-essay-t.html?_r=1&amp;ref=magazine&amp;oref=slogin" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/magazine/10wwln-essay-t ...<p>
I have been quietly pushing for this for a long time now. &nbsp;My guess is that grubs or larvas may be prepared more palatably for most adventuresome diners than adult insects. &nbsp;But small adults, such as chapulines, are no problem really.<p>
The issue of sentience, though, remains serious, no less so than in the case of shrimps, crabs and lobsters, to whom insects are not too distantly related, and with whom they share a comparable neurology.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by javaearth</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 00:34:25 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Tom - why is this news?</strong></p><p>Tom, I am glad that you wrote about this. </p><p>
However, I think most people do not care about human nor animal crulty. - If we did, there would be less factory farming, there would be less starvation, there would be less deforestation... the list is endless. </p><p>
I think we need to be realetic that majority of people really do not care about anything beyond themselves, their health, their houses and cars, and few other people in their network. &nbsp;</p><p>
For the few % of people that do care, a) they are meet with much anger, b) never really supported, c) overworked and under paid.</p><p>
It feels like society rewards people for being mean and selfish! Where is the ethics in that? </p>
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				<p><strong>Tom - why is this news?</strong></p><p>Tom, I am glad that you wrote about this. </p><p>
However, I think most people do not care about human nor animal crulty. - If we did, there would be less factory farming, there would be less starvation, there would be less deforestation... the list is endless. </p><p>
I think we need to be realetic that majority of people really do not care about anything beyond themselves, their health, their houses and cars, and few other people in their network. &nbsp;</p><p>
For the few % of people that do care, a) they are meet with much anger, b) never really supported, c) overworked and under paid.</p><p>
It feels like society rewards people for being mean and selfish! Where is the ethics in that? </p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:42:10 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Disgusting</strong></p><p>Boycott chem meat and the sadistic corporate food industry.</p><p>
Sure organic, free range chicken costs more, so just eat less. &nbsp;Fill up on healthy organic beans and other high protein veggy products.</p><p>
As far as re-regulating corporate agribizz, your choices are limited. &nbsp;The time to make pols face issues like this is past, maybe the next election cycle? &nbsp;

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Disgusting</strong></p><p>Boycott chem meat and the sadistic corporate food industry.</p><p>
Sure organic, free range chicken costs more, so just eat less. &nbsp;Fill up on healthy organic beans and other high protein veggy products.</p><p>
As far as re-regulating corporate agribizz, your choices are limited. &nbsp;The time to make pols face issues like this is past, maybe the next election cycle? &nbsp;

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Tom Philpott</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:08:26 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Charlotte Observer on migrants<p>Thanks for all the great comments. Canis, I would like to add that the Observer series does take on the issue of migrants in a direct, honest, and even courageous way. This sort of thing makes me lament the decline of dailies -- when these papers are gone, who is going to invest resources in covering stories like this? <p>
<a href="http://www.charlotte.com/716/story/487184.html" rel="nofollow">Here is an Observer editorial, accompanying the poultry-worker series, on migrants, titled "Poultry series exposes a new, silent subclass:<br>
Neglect of workers has ugly precedent in Carolinas history." It's by the paper's editor, Rick Thames.<p>
Today we ask you to join us for a six-day series on the plight of Carolinas workers who put America's most popular meat on the table.<p>
These workers -- about 28,000 of them in the Carolinas -- process chicken and turkey in all its forms. Whole birds, fillets, nuggets, slices, cubes, sausage and even hot dogs.<p>
It may surprise you to learn that most of the workers speak Spanish. Many of them entered the country illegally.<p>
Should that matter as you consider the working conditions you will read about?<p>
I say yes, but maybe not for the most obvious reason.<p>
It should matter because the neglect of these workers exposes an ugly dimension to a new subclass in our society. A disturbing subclass of compliant workers with few, if any, rights.<p>
<b>I say disturbing because North and South Carolina share some regrettable history of building economies on the backs of such workers.<p>
Before the Civil War, slaves and poor sharecroppers powered the region's tobacco and cotton plantations. Early in the 20th century, children as young as 8 were put to work in Carolinas textile mills to help feed their poor families.<p>
Consider the parallel to illegal immigrants. Same as slaves and sharecroppers, same as the cotton mill workers derisively termed "lintheads," <b>this subclass is now a scorned bunch.<p>
And yet they help power our economy. We live in houses they built. We drive on highways they paved. We eat the chicken and turkey they prepared.<p>
Illegal immigrants often take the least desirable jobs, earning low wages, because those jobs lift them and their families from the poverty they left behind in their homelands.<p>
As a group, they are compulsively compliant, ever-conscious that one complaint could lead to their firing or arrest or deportation.<p>
"Some speak out, but most of these workers just wanted to remain in the shadows," said Franco Ordo&#241;ez, a reporter who spent months speaking to workers in the Latino communities surrounding the poultry plants. "It's just not worth it, considering how much they've already risked, to draw more attention to themselves -- even if they're hurt. They're like the perfect victims."<p>
And, as you will read today, businesses take advantage of their silence and vulnerability.<p>
Will we allow such conditions to go unchecked again?<p>
That is the broader question raised by an Observer investigation.

<p><a href="http://grist.org/cgi-bin/search.pl?gristcat=Victual%20Reality&amp;sort=gristdate&amp;reverse=on&amp;archives=yes" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></b></p></p></b></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></br></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Charlotte Observer on migrants<p>Thanks for all the great comments. Canis, I would like to add that the Observer series does take on the issue of migrants in a direct, honest, and even courageous way. This sort of thing makes me lament the decline of dailies -- when these papers are gone, who is going to invest resources in covering stories like this? <p>
<a href="http://www.charlotte.com/716/story/487184.html" rel="nofollow">Here is an Observer editorial, accompanying the poultry-worker series, on migrants, titled "Poultry series exposes a new, silent subclass:<br>
Neglect of workers has ugly precedent in Carolinas history." It's by the paper's editor, Rick Thames.<p>
Today we ask you to join us for a six-day series on the plight of Carolinas workers who put America's most popular meat on the table.<p>
These workers -- about 28,000 of them in the Carolinas -- process chicken and turkey in all its forms. Whole birds, fillets, nuggets, slices, cubes, sausage and even hot dogs.<p>
It may surprise you to learn that most of the workers speak Spanish. Many of them entered the country illegally.<p>
Should that matter as you consider the working conditions you will read about?<p>
I say yes, but maybe not for the most obvious reason.<p>
It should matter because the neglect of these workers exposes an ugly dimension to a new subclass in our society. A disturbing subclass of compliant workers with few, if any, rights.<p>
<b>I say disturbing because North and South Carolina share some regrettable history of building economies on the backs of such workers.<p>
Before the Civil War, slaves and poor sharecroppers powered the region's tobacco and cotton plantations. Early in the 20th century, children as young as 8 were put to work in Carolinas textile mills to help feed their poor families.<p>
Consider the parallel to illegal immigrants. Same as slaves and sharecroppers, same as the cotton mill workers derisively termed "lintheads," <b>this subclass is now a scorned bunch.<p>
And yet they help power our economy. We live in houses they built. We drive on highways they paved. We eat the chicken and turkey they prepared.<p>
Illegal immigrants often take the least desirable jobs, earning low wages, because those jobs lift them and their families from the poverty they left behind in their homelands.<p>
As a group, they are compulsively compliant, ever-conscious that one complaint could lead to their firing or arrest or deportation.<p>
"Some speak out, but most of these workers just wanted to remain in the shadows," said Franco Ordo&#241;ez, a reporter who spent months speaking to workers in the Latino communities surrounding the poultry plants. "It's just not worth it, considering how much they've already risked, to draw more attention to themselves -- even if they're hurt. They're like the perfect victims."<p>
And, as you will read today, businesses take advantage of their silence and vulnerability.<p>
Will we allow such conditions to go unchecked again?<p>
That is the broader question raised by an Observer investigation.

<p><a href="http://grist.org/cgi-bin/search.pl?gristcat=Victual%20Reality&amp;sort=gristdate&amp;reverse=on&amp;archives=yes" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></b></p></p></b></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></br></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by bookerly</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:27:32 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Great Post!!</strong></p><p><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Great Post Tom!! &nbsp;And thanks to the Charlotte Observer for these reports. &nbsp;Please keep us informed as to how the reports are received, and if there is any governmental follow up.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Dear JavaEarth, &nbsp;I understand your feeling. &nbsp;But consider that perhaps the vast majority of people who don't "care" are not really indifferent. &nbsp;Rather they are so focused on survival and exhausted from the struggle, that there is nothing left for compassion. &nbsp;Or maybe there is nothing left in them to make them think that their voices will be listened to.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This is one of the reasons that the "gap" between the rich and the poor matters. &nbsp;As the vast majority of people loses ground, it becomes harder to organize them to deal with the plight of others (at least in an America where collective action has been successfully demonized for over 50 years).</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Someday this sleeping giant may unite and waken. &nbsp;We can only hope it is not too late.</p><p>
patrick in Beijing &nbsp; </br></p>
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				<p><strong>Great Post!!</strong></p><p><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Great Post Tom!! &nbsp;And thanks to the Charlotte Observer for these reports. &nbsp;Please keep us informed as to how the reports are received, and if there is any governmental follow up.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Dear JavaEarth, &nbsp;I understand your feeling. &nbsp;But consider that perhaps the vast majority of people who don't "care" are not really indifferent. &nbsp;Rather they are so focused on survival and exhausted from the struggle, that there is nothing left for compassion. &nbsp;Or maybe there is nothing left in them to make them think that their voices will be listened to.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This is one of the reasons that the "gap" between the rich and the poor matters. &nbsp;As the vast majority of people loses ground, it becomes harder to organize them to deal with the plight of others (at least in an America where collective action has been successfully demonized for over 50 years).</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Someday this sleeping giant may unite and waken. &nbsp;We can only hope it is not too late.</p><p>
patrick in Beijing &nbsp; </br></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:23:38 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-poultry-worker-blues/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>demonization</strong></p><p>I never thought of it like that, Patrick, but I see your point.</p><p>
And JavaEarth definitely deserves to be affirmed for deploring the opposite phenomenon, the Stepfordization, I guess, of American society.</p><p>
But I suspect that you and JavaEarth are talking about different sets of people.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>demonization</strong></p><p>I never thought of it like that, Patrick, but I see your point.</p><p>
And JavaEarth definitely deserves to be affirmed for deploring the opposite phenomenon, the Stepfordization, I guess, of American society.</p><p>
But I suspect that you and JavaEarth are talking about different sets of people.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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