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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for <em>NYT</em>: Maryland poultry CAFOs snuff out Chesapeake oyster industry]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by JMG</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 05:17:35 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Victory Chickens<p>Thanks, another good post on the horrors of the industrial food system.<p>
It just shows the insanity of the zoning laws that forbid people from keeping a few laying hens in their yards -- laws that a few of the more progressive places are relaxing.<p>
What we need -- along with Victory Gardens and clotheslines in every yard -- are "Victory Chickens:" &nbsp;a movement to get people (and zoning boards) to encourage householders to keep a few hens around for eggs, pest control, and fertilizer. &nbsp;And those hens can be given to the food banks or missions when they're ready to give the final measure of devotion to fighting these industrial food nightmares.

<p>The <a href="http://is.gd/39gm" rel="nofollow">5% Project

Let's live on the planet as if we intend to stay.</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Victory Chickens<p>Thanks, another good post on the horrors of the industrial food system.<p>
It just shows the insanity of the zoning laws that forbid people from keeping a few laying hens in their yards -- laws that a few of the more progressive places are relaxing.<p>
What we need -- along with Victory Gardens and clotheslines in every yard -- are "Victory Chickens:" &nbsp;a movement to get people (and zoning boards) to encourage householders to keep a few hens around for eggs, pest control, and fertilizer. &nbsp;And those hens can be given to the food banks or missions when they're ready to give the final measure of devotion to fighting these industrial food nightmares.

<p>The <a href="http://is.gd/39gm" rel="nofollow">5% Project

Let's live on the planet as if we intend to stay.</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 05:54:59 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>I agree with JMG, nice post<p>Government has to fix this runoff problem, end of story. I love oyster stew ...<p>
My daughter drags her chicken coop bedding out front every few months. The neighbors appear with wheelbarrows to haul it to their gardens. The pile is usually gone within hours. Putting a pile of chicken bedding out front of your house in many neighborhoods will get you fined.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>I agree with JMG, nice post<p>Government has to fix this runoff problem, end of story. I love oyster stew ...<p>
My daughter drags her chicken coop bedding out front every few months. The neighbors appear with wheelbarrows to haul it to their gardens. The pile is usually gone within hours. Putting a pile of chicken bedding out front of your house in many neighborhoods will get you fined.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:13:17 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>the ecosystem is precious</strong></p><p>Bivalve molluscs, such as the oysters of Chesapeake Bay, probably fall below the line of sentience that many of us animal-rights promoters consider with great care. &nbsp;(But cephalopod molluscs, the octopuses, squids and cuttlefishes, are definitely above that line. &nbsp;Gastropod molluscs, e.g. snails, aka escargots, are probably up there with the cephalopods, but we need to study them more.)</p><p>
Still, it is not well done to think of any animal, no matter how far from sentience (oysters in this case), simply as a "resource," who deserve our attention only as an ephemeral source of pleasure. &nbsp;MFK Fisher is a gem of a writer; but her old Mediterranean friends are not likely to have been great moral examples, when it comes to how to think about the animals that they taught her to eat.</p><p>
Anyway, the bay floor's ecosystems are rich, and the over-ample dumping of chicken shit surely is bad news for many animals besides the oysters. &nbsp;Animal-rights ethics and environmental ethics are united on this issue.</p><p>
To say nothing of the chickens ...

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>the ecosystem is precious</strong></p><p>Bivalve molluscs, such as the oysters of Chesapeake Bay, probably fall below the line of sentience that many of us animal-rights promoters consider with great care. &nbsp;(But cephalopod molluscs, the octopuses, squids and cuttlefishes, are definitely above that line. &nbsp;Gastropod molluscs, e.g. snails, aka escargots, are probably up there with the cephalopods, but we need to study them more.)</p><p>
Still, it is not well done to think of any animal, no matter how far from sentience (oysters in this case), simply as a "resource," who deserve our attention only as an ephemeral source of pleasure. &nbsp;MFK Fisher is a gem of a writer; but her old Mediterranean friends are not likely to have been great moral examples, when it comes to how to think about the animals that they taught her to eat.</p><p>
Anyway, the bay floor's ecosystems are rich, and the over-ample dumping of chicken shit surely is bad news for many animals besides the oysters. &nbsp;Animal-rights ethics and environmental ethics are united on this issue.</p><p>
To say nothing of the chickens ...

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by almostaphantom</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 03:31:07 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>chickens on the bay</strong></p><p>Chicken production is not the problem...its all the people who have moved here and put houses along the shore. &nbsp;At one time no one lived near the water because there was no flood insurance. NOW there are houses all along the coastline, with green(fertilized)lawns. There are more people living in the area than ever before in history. The area cannot handle that kind of population. As for the drop in watermen, that drop is not necessarily a drop in crabs. I've talked to watermen this year who say there are more crabs than ever, but have quit because of incleased costs and regulations. The crab population is determined by how many are caught. If no one is out there fishing them....of course there appears to be less. Oysters were infected with disease years ago that killed off their population, even before the number of chicken farms that are operating now. Yes, I agree we should grow food on a smaller more humane scale, but don't tilt the facts to get us there. &nbsp;If these chicken farms all shut down, no one in this country would be eating chicken once a week. </p>
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				<p><strong>chickens on the bay</strong></p><p>Chicken production is not the problem...its all the people who have moved here and put houses along the shore. &nbsp;At one time no one lived near the water because there was no flood insurance. NOW there are houses all along the coastline, with green(fertilized)lawns. There are more people living in the area than ever before in history. The area cannot handle that kind of population. As for the drop in watermen, that drop is not necessarily a drop in crabs. I've talked to watermen this year who say there are more crabs than ever, but have quit because of incleased costs and regulations. The crab population is determined by how many are caught. If no one is out there fishing them....of course there appears to be less. Oysters were infected with disease years ago that killed off their population, even before the number of chicken farms that are operating now. Yes, I agree we should grow food on a smaller more humane scale, but don't tilt the facts to get us there. &nbsp;If these chicken farms all shut down, no one in this country would be eating chicken once a week. </p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by MickieC</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 02:04:21 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Chicken shit</strong></p><p>I don't understand the problem. Chicken farmers can either compost the manure and sell it at a great profit, or sell it to a company that will do so. Either way the farmers will get rid of the manure w/o harming the bay, it will be used to fertilize the earth and it will add to the farmer's income - something desperately needed since we know they are not the ones making a huge profit.</p><p>
As an organic gardener I will take almost any manure available (usually free) from chicken, goats, horses, cows and yes, even emus. I compost it and add it to my sandy soil. The farmers are happy to have it hauled away, sometimes even helping me shovel it into my truck. My pure-sand soil grows amazing veggies and flowers and we're both very happy. </p><p>
Put the poultry manure to good use so it isn't pollluting and the farmer's can make a better profit.

<p>MickieC</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Chicken shit</strong></p><p>I don't understand the problem. Chicken farmers can either compost the manure and sell it at a great profit, or sell it to a company that will do so. Either way the farmers will get rid of the manure w/o harming the bay, it will be used to fertilize the earth and it will add to the farmer's income - something desperately needed since we know they are not the ones making a huge profit.</p><p>
As an organic gardener I will take almost any manure available (usually free) from chicken, goats, horses, cows and yes, even emus. I compost it and add it to my sandy soil. The farmers are happy to have it hauled away, sometimes even helping me shovel it into my truck. My pure-sand soil grows amazing veggies and flowers and we're both very happy. </p><p>
Put the poultry manure to good use so it isn't pollluting and the farmer's can make a better profit.

<p>MickieC</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by almostaphantom</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 23:47:01 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>chicken manure</strong></p><p>That is EXACTLY what local farmers do, they spread the manure from the chicken houses on their fields instead of expensive manufactured fertilizer! &nbsp;I'm telling you there have been chicken houses in this area for decades and decades. The increase in population and the portion of the population that have built houses to the waterline are the problem..not the chickens.</p>
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				<p><strong>chicken manure</strong></p><p>That is EXACTLY what local farmers do, they spread the manure from the chicken houses on their fields instead of expensive manufactured fertilizer! &nbsp;I'm telling you there have been chicken houses in this area for decades and decades. The increase in population and the portion of the population that have built houses to the waterline are the problem..not the chickens.</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 00:45:28 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Sorry composters<p>Composting or field spreading won't solve industrial chicken CAFO pollution. &nbsp;That stuff is toxic.<p>
How so? &nbsp;Hormone and antibiotic laced chicken poop needs to be biodigested to break down these compounds before it is suitable for organic farming.<p>
And putting raw manure into the eco-system where other animals feed on it, like mussels, tends to evolve viruses and bacteria that can not only be problematic to other animals, but also to humans. &nbsp;Witness the possibly dangerous bird-flu. &nbsp;It's a pig, duck, and human manure/food stream stew incubated disease.<p>
Put all that manure into a biodigestor and make GHG iffsetting backup energy for a renewable smart grid, and clean, safe, pathogen and agri-chem free organic fertilizer. &nbsp;That fertilizer also offsets huge amounts of GHG.<p>
And then feel free to add the high nitrogen organic fertilizer to compost for your garden. &nbsp;Along with all your green manure (green plant material) and veggie kitchen waste. &nbsp;Animal product waste ought to be biodigested though.<p>
I sure like that idea JMG, victory chickens! &nbsp;And the happy chicken music is a big plus! &nbsp;Bwaaack..bwaaahh..very soothing. &nbsp;Come to think of it bio-d, maybe your favorite chicken farmer could put up a chicken-cam? &nbsp;Grist needs one of these. &nbsp;Live streaming happy chicken music. &nbsp;<p>
Much like Arnie's favorite website, <a href="http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2008/11/13/3976540.html" rel="nofollow">puppycam.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Sorry composters<p>Composting or field spreading won't solve industrial chicken CAFO pollution. &nbsp;That stuff is toxic.<p>
How so? &nbsp;Hormone and antibiotic laced chicken poop needs to be biodigested to break down these compounds before it is suitable for organic farming.<p>
And putting raw manure into the eco-system where other animals feed on it, like mussels, tends to evolve viruses and bacteria that can not only be problematic to other animals, but also to humans. &nbsp;Witness the possibly dangerous bird-flu. &nbsp;It's a pig, duck, and human manure/food stream stew incubated disease.<p>
Put all that manure into a biodigestor and make GHG iffsetting backup energy for a renewable smart grid, and clean, safe, pathogen and agri-chem free organic fertilizer. &nbsp;That fertilizer also offsets huge amounts of GHG.<p>
And then feel free to add the high nitrogen organic fertilizer to compost for your garden. &nbsp;Along with all your green manure (green plant material) and veggie kitchen waste. &nbsp;Animal product waste ought to be biodigested though.<p>
I sure like that idea JMG, victory chickens! &nbsp;And the happy chicken music is a big plus! &nbsp;Bwaaack..bwaaahh..very soothing. &nbsp;Come to think of it bio-d, maybe your favorite chicken farmer could put up a chicken-cam? &nbsp;Grist needs one of these. &nbsp;Live streaming happy chicken music. &nbsp;<p>
Much like Arnie's favorite website, <a href="http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2008/11/13/3976540.html" rel="nofollow">puppycam.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Tom Philpott</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 04:22:05 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/meat-wagon-chicken-shit-blues/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Delmarva chicken industry<p>Mickie C,<br>
If human population has grown rapidly in the Chesapeake area, chicken population has grown even faster. <p>
In the so-called Delmarva Peninsula -- a chunk of land occupied by Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia whose waters flow into the Chesapeake -- production of broilers jumped from 260 million birds in 1965 to 602 million in 1998, the WaPo reports. <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/daily/aug99/poultry_map.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/daily/aug99/po ...<p>
Looks like production has dropped a little since then -- too 566 million birds, by one estimate. Still, that means well more than 10 percent of the chickens grown on U.S. soil come from one little Peninsula off the Chesapeake. <p>
So, I think it's fair to say that poultry poses a threat to water quality in the Chesapeake. No?<p>
For the record, it looks like four large companies process the birds grown on Delmarva:<br>
Allen Family Foods, Inc. <br>
Mountaire Farms Inc. &nbsp;<br>
Perdue Farms Inc. &nbsp; &nbsp; <br>
Tyson Foods, Inc. <br>
Source: <a href="http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:DJTeh3cBdWMJ:www.dpichicken.com/download/factsde2007.doc+delmarva+broiler+production+facts+%2B+tyson&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=2&amp;gl=us&amp;client=safari" rel="nofollow">http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:DJTeh3cBdWMJ:www.dpic ...

<p><a href="http://www.grist.org/topic/Victual_Reality" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></a></br></br></br></br></br></p></p></p></a></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Delmarva chicken industry<p>Mickie C,<br>
If human population has grown rapidly in the Chesapeake area, chicken population has grown even faster. <p>
In the so-called Delmarva Peninsula -- a chunk of land occupied by Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia whose waters flow into the Chesapeake -- production of broilers jumped from 260 million birds in 1965 to 602 million in 1998, the WaPo reports. <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/daily/aug99/poultry_map.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/daily/aug99/po ...<p>
Looks like production has dropped a little since then -- too 566 million birds, by one estimate. Still, that means well more than 10 percent of the chickens grown on U.S. soil come from one little Peninsula off the Chesapeake. <p>
So, I think it's fair to say that poultry poses a threat to water quality in the Chesapeake. No?<p>
For the record, it looks like four large companies process the birds grown on Delmarva:<br>
Allen Family Foods, Inc. <br>
Mountaire Farms Inc. &nbsp;<br>
Perdue Farms Inc. &nbsp; &nbsp; <br>
Tyson Foods, Inc. <br>
Source: <a href="http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:DJTeh3cBdWMJ:www.dpichicken.com/download/factsde2007.doc+delmarva+broiler+production+facts+%2B+tyson&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=2&amp;gl=us&amp;client=safari" rel="nofollow">http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:DJTeh3cBdWMJ:www.dpic ...

<p><a href="http://www.grist.org/topic/Victual_Reality" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></a></br></br></br></br></br></p></p></p></a></p></br></p></strong></p>
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