A free market is always better than a government subsidy. Always. Manipulation of the free market should be treated aggressively. But the market must still be as free as possible. Almost everything good in our lives has come via the free market. Everything.

Almost everything good in our lives has come via the free market. Everything.

What about Tang?

www.grist.org

  That would be the post-colonial free market I expect, where the prior owners of all the resources where exterminated or ejected from the land and their resources by paid government agents intent on distorting the market for the benefit of the folks coming to settle the "new" land.

  Or do you mean the free market that efficiently externalizes the destruction of the planet's thermoregulatory capability and the cost of ferrying and protecting the oil from the Middle East, shifting all these to taxpayers rather than oil users.

  Or do you mean the free market that allows a tiny handful of oligopolists to capture the airwaves for nothing and then, for all intents and purposes, print money, while removing the public benefit requirements.

... I have a feeling we've gotten off topic (a bit).  

>> Almost everything good in our
>> lives has come via the free market.
>> Everything.

> What about Tang?

If you think Tang is a good thing, then your life is far more deficient than I can fix.

JMG wrote:
>> Is that the post-colonial free market then?

>  That would be the post-colonial free market I
> expect, where the prior owners of all the
> resources where exterminated or ejected from the > land and their resources by paid government
> agents intent on distorting the market for the
> benefit of the folks coming to settle the "new" > land.

Yes, that free market, exactly. You can become part of it and struggle for success within in, or you can stay back and whine and complain and be run over by more successful men who are reaching for the stars. I think we know which group you are a part of.

>  Or do you mean the free market that
> efficiently externalizes the destruction
> of the planet's thermoregulatory
> capability and the cost of ferrying
> and protecting the oil from the Middle East,
> shifting all these to taxpayers rather than oil > users.

Precisely--the free market which you voluntarily participate in and which you ignore the external costs of when they are in your interest. Are you voluntarily paying $5/gal for gasoline, or voluntarily paying an extra $5K/yr in taxes to account for your share of the external costs? If not, they you are just as much of a fucking hypocrite as the next person, and in what absolutely pure way to you make a living, anyway?

>  Or do you mean the free market that allows a
> tiny handful of oligopolists to capture the
> airwaves for nothing and then, for all intents
> and purposes, print money, while removing the
> public benefit requirements.

You are a weak citizen indeed, because it is your elected representatives who have paved the way for these abuses to occur. Why haven't you run for the legislature and fought like a real man? Prefer to be a whining malcontent who can criticize but never construct? I thought so.

Real men become part of these oligarchys, and learn to benefit from the way the world works, instead of whining about them in the comment sections of little-read blogs.

Do you want higher incomes for farmers or cheaper food for consumers?

I applaud the increasing demand for corn for ethanol. Why? The bulk of the cost of food is added on AFTER the farmers sell their corn. So what if processors have to add an extra 5 cents to the price of a bottle of corn oil?

This will help American famers, north AND south! The issue of paying for food is not a producer problem. Government should FOCUS on creating good jobs for people so they can buy food,  NOT run farmers out of business!!!!

Yes there is corn in EVERYTHING. Soda, frying oil, junk food, industrial beef, industrial corn, obese people. I applaud high corn prices. It will solve a multitude of problems......... raise the prices of corn syrup, raise the price of junk food, raise the price of industrial agriculture, REDUCE health problems world wide, SAVE rural economies. Corn is too cheap.

You folks are happy to see gasoline double or triple in price without concern for working stiff. What's the worry over corn?

Bring it on! Let's finally pay what it REALLY costs to grow food. It might motivated us all to lose a little weight by working in our own gardens.

JMG, you just don't get it. Men -- real men, men of destiny -- don't sit around and whine about how unfair the free market is. They find a way to make it work to their advantage. It is Darwinian to an extent -- just as life is. Yes, the free market is not fair. Life is not fair. Real men don't whine about it, they deal with it. The alternative to the free market has never produced anything of value, ever. Name just one thing -- I dare you.

the initial infrastructure for the internet?

Things of value that "the alternative to the free market" has produced... WTF do you mean by alternative? Oh well, let me take a stab at this:

First category -- things that are government subsidized:
Roads, gasoline, heating oil, electricity, crops, airports, airlines, nearly every drug you have ever taken, lumber, cotton, and just about the whole infrastructure of the USA owes its existence to government subsidy.

Second category -- clean water, clean air, and the whole natural world.

Look, go and read Adam Smith and you will see that free markets never drew a live breath, governments immediately interceded and so your idealized "free markets" are socialized markets, artificial, manipulated and bastardized. Get over it.

If the Feds had not invested in the rail system and gave away public land, the robber barons would have been stopped dead in their tracks. The whole settling of the West would have been a different story. No way to exploit natural resources like coal, timber, market hunting. No way to export "problems" from the East coast by shipping excess labor west. No breadbasket to feed America and the world. No flourishing of capitalism in America.

The freemarketeers are happy to risk someone elses skin or paycheck.... never their own!

Make the oil companies pay for their own security in the Middle East. Unleash the FREE MARKET. We'll see just how much you enjoy it d41295.

...don't assume that "people" = men, d4.

If we leave it up to y'all y-chromosome-afflicted chest-thumpers, we'll just keep on down the road we're on; we've had millenia of patriarchy, and yet, strangely, we're not living in a utopia of "real men" yet.

Here's my prediction, d4:  You're a real man of destiny, where "destiny" includes being the recipient of a Darwin Award.  

Men -- real men, men of destiny ...

Wow! That's awesome. You don't see that kind of pure, uncut, tumescent adoration of Ayn Rand in the wild much outside of libertarian blog circles. Kind of bracing.

www.grist.org

D4, do you post on any other sites?  do you have an email?
i like your posts, agree with them completely.  I'd like to see some of your other opinions.
my email is (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) //= 0; i=i-1){ if (l[i].substring(0, 1) == ' ') output += "&#"+unescape(l[i].substring(1))+";"; else output += unescape(l[i]); } document.getElementById('eeEncEmail_N1vCK3U60i').innerHTML = output; //]]>

only the strong survive...

I do not choose to be what I am. It is my karma.

   Get off the internet!!!  Without the money the government spends (or the interference in industries such as communications), you would still be using pigeons.

   It always amazes me that people who hate the government spend so much time using something that would not have existed without the government putting lots of money and effort into it.  In fact, the US government still spends money on it each year, hundreds of millions of dollars (last I looked).

    Real men listen to real women.

    Real men start revolutions and end oligarchies.

    Real men think the idea of "real men" is a bit silly.

patrick

JMG, you just don't get it. Men -- real men, men of destiny -- don't sit around and whine about how unfair the free market is. They find a way to make it work to their advantage. It is Darwinian to an extent -- just as life is. Yes, the free market is not fair. Life is not fair. Real men don't whine about it, they deal with it. The alternative to the free market has never produced anything of value, ever. Name just one thing -- I dare you.  The Internet, a product of DARPA, a project of the US DOD...  please get OFF, since according to you the Internet has no value...

http://ecosocialism.blogspot.com/

I'll set aside my spanking new troll personality... for a moment.

Mr. Philpott.

How are we going to resolve the conflicting goals... (1) increasing farmer wages and saving the rural economy while (2) ensuring food prices do not skyrocket?

It seems food is priced artificially low. Famers receive very little from the original product. Increasing demand will be good for farmers, who can then afford to buy food and other necessities.

Corn is largely used to support unhealthy habits (junk food, industrial meat). As far as the third world is concerned, it is not even nutritionally balanced. It is not a crop civilization should rely on for food. And we should stop encouraging its use around the globe. Promote locally appropriate agriculture. Yes, it is locally appropriate in Mexico, but only as long as other crops are grown as well. Reliance on corn brought down several civilizations in Central America.

Perhaps if farmers receive a higher price for their corn, they can support their families on less land and afford to grow better sources of nutrition. Furthermore, a higher price for any agricultural product will take pressure off urban areas, especially in the third world, as people can return to the land.

I realize that it is difficult to separate effects on wealthy and poverty-sticken populations, but the net result of a higher price for corn appears positive.

Just my opinion. Feel free to educate me. I promise I will not repeat any of the above remarks unless doing so will contribute to an ongoing and productive conversation.

hey, tom

did you see the piece on barack obama inc in november harper's magazine? seems obama is a big ethanol advocate. guess what company dominates the illinois economy and coincidentlly (???) tops the list of contributors to obama's senate bid?

as for what i plan on doing about all this, i'll be planting some extra acres of corn this year, while hoping that it doesn't rain as much this spring as it did last year. (here in the northeast, anyways)

peace