<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Workers on organic farms are treated as poorly as their conventional counterparts]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by bottleman http://www.grist.org/article/mark/ Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:13:51 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/mark/1 healthy vs. enviro consumers

Good piece.  I think one assumption communicated by two of the sources was a little off, though.  I've lived in two hotspots of organic consumerism and volunteered at a food co-op, and in my experience, most organic food buyers aren't assuming anything about workers. They're not thinking about them at all -- or even, increasingly, thinking about bugs.

That's because the most common motivation for buying organic is concern with one's own health. Call these buyers the "healthies."  Then there is a certain population whose primary motivation is the environment, the "enviros."  The motivations mix, sure, but the more "healthy" (and selfish) one usually predominates.  Sometimes people even think that by making themselves healthier they're doing something virtuous for the environment... even if they've driven 75 miles to get to the co-op, and the produce came from Brazil.  

Of these two groups, the "enviros" would probably be much more interested in worker rights, but unfortunately they're not that numerous.  Somebody please tell me I'm wrong!

http://bottleworld.net

]]> healthy vs. enviro consumers

Good piece.  I think one assumption communicated by two of the sources was a little off, though.  I've lived in two hotspots of organic consumerism and volunteered at a food co-op, and in my experience, most organic food buyers aren't assuming anything about workers. They're not thinking about them at all -- or even, increasingly, thinking about bugs.

That's because the most common motivation for buying organic is concern with one's own health. Call these buyers the "healthies."  Then there is a certain population whose primary motivation is the environment, the "enviros."  The motivations mix, sure, but the more "healthy" (and selfish) one usually predominates.  Sometimes people even think that by making themselves healthier they're doing something virtuous for the environment... even if they've driven 75 miles to get to the co-op, and the produce came from Brazil.  

Of these two groups, the "enviros" would probably be much more interested in worker rights, but unfortunately they're not that numerous.  Somebody please tell me I'm wrong!

http://bottleworld.net

]]> Comment #2 by kmp http://www.grist.org/article/mark/ Thu, 03 Aug 2006 05:19:25 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/mark/2 Strange assumption

I find this statement, without any reference or citation, quite odd:

"There's a common conventional wisdom by a lot of consumers, especially at the higher-end stores, that just because it's organic the workers are treated better," said UFW spokesperson Mark Grossman. "And that's simply not true."

Like bottleman says above, I don't know many people who even think about the farm worker who helped to produce their produce.  However, of the people who do spend a moment to think about the workers, I find it an odd assumption that an organic label would automatically equal better working conditions for farm workers.

Once again, I think this is a confusion of "organic" with "small, sustainable, family farm."  Although I have absolutely no data with which to back this up, I do tend to believe that workers on small family farms will likely be treated better than those on mega-corporate farms, organic or otherwise.  This assumption is based simply upon knowledge of human nature - for most of us, it would be much harder to impose harsh working conditions on Juan, Sue and Peter, than it is on 500 nameless, faceless "fieldhands."  

I freely admit that I have nothing outside of my own opinion to back up the above, however.  I find it odd that the above statement would be made without some sort of survey or at least anecdotal evidence to back it up.

]]> Strange assumption

I find this statement, without any reference or citation, quite odd:

"There's a common conventional wisdom by a lot of consumers, especially at the higher-end stores, that just because it's organic the workers are treated better," said UFW spokesperson Mark Grossman. "And that's simply not true."

Like bottleman says above, I don't know many people who even think about the farm worker who helped to produce their produce.  However, of the people who do spend a moment to think about the workers, I find it an odd assumption that an organic label would automatically equal better working conditions for farm workers.

Once again, I think this is a confusion of "organic" with "small, sustainable, family farm."  Although I have absolutely no data with which to back this up, I do tend to believe that workers on small family farms will likely be treated better than those on mega-corporate farms, organic or otherwise.  This assumption is based simply upon knowledge of human nature - for most of us, it would be much harder to impose harsh working conditions on Juan, Sue and Peter, than it is on 500 nameless, faceless "fieldhands."  

I freely admit that I have nothing outside of my own opinion to back up the above, however.  I find it odd that the above statement would be made without some sort of survey or at least anecdotal evidence to back it up.

]]> Comment #3 by thegnu http://www.grist.org/article/mark/ Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:30:56 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/mark/3 california produce

I lived in Baja for many years, and I know that there are hundreds of organic farms there, most of which goes to California.  The Mexican farmers who are part of the coops make nearly NO money whatsoever, and the American liasons make a killing.

Now that Los Cabos is in heavy development, they've brought in Soriana and CCC and other Mexican Wal-Marts to truck in non-organic garbage produce for the locals.

Yum.

]]> california produce

I lived in Baja for many years, and I know that there are hundreds of organic farms there, most of which goes to California.  The Mexican farmers who are part of the coops make nearly NO money whatsoever, and the American liasons make a killing.

Now that Los Cabos is in heavy development, they've brought in Soriana and CCC and other Mexican Wal-Marts to truck in non-organic garbage produce for the locals.

Yum.

]]> Comment #4 by wwallace http://www.grist.org/article/mark/ Tue, 08 Aug 2006 02:56:57 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/mark/4 Immigration issues

One of the interesting things that was not mentioned in this article, is that these conditions may have to do with the fact that these workers are not legal immigrants, and thus, were they to complain, they could possibly be deported.  

Thus, it does not surprise me that these conditions are widespread...

Another thing, is that it would be interesting to find if the conditions were similar in Europe.  From my experience, Europeans are more sensative to ethical issues (and less about health), which is one of the reasons that Fair Trade products have a higher percentage of the market, not to mention a wider abundance of products.

]]> Immigration issues

One of the interesting things that was not mentioned in this article, is that these conditions may have to do with the fact that these workers are not legal immigrants, and thus, were they to complain, they could possibly be deported.  

Thus, it does not surprise me that these conditions are widespread...

Another thing, is that it would be interesting to find if the conditions were similar in Europe.  From my experience, Europeans are more sensative to ethical issues (and less about health), which is one of the reasons that Fair Trade products have a higher percentage of the market, not to mention a wider abundance of products.

]]> Comment #5 by greenlagirl http://www.grist.org/article/mark/ Tue, 08 Aug 2006 15:38:28 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/mark/5 Domestic Fair Trade principles

A link to the draft principles for domestic fair trade's at the OCA site.

]]> Domestic Fair Trade principles

A link to the draft principles for domestic fair trade's at the OCA site.

]]> Comment #6 by miss k http://www.grist.org/article/mark/ Tue, 28 Aug 2007 01:55:23 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/mark/6 Buy local

The USDA "organic" label bears almost no resemblance to the original organic movement.  I buy organic, because i still believe it is better then conventional food production, and it is.

The ONLY way to promote sustainable food production (intrinsic in that is fair labor) is to BUY LOCAL!!!  Or better still: join a CSA.

Lastly, this article seems a bit attackish on organic farms.  Labor conditions are a widespread issue, that is not unique to agriculture, never mind organic agriculture. Although there is no data in this article to speak either way, it begs the question:  are these problems unique to organic farms? or commercial farms?

]]> Buy local

The USDA "organic" label bears almost no resemblance to the original organic movement.  I buy organic, because i still believe it is better then conventional food production, and it is.

The ONLY way to promote sustainable food production (intrinsic in that is fair labor) is to BUY LOCAL!!!  Or better still: join a CSA.

Lastly, this article seems a bit attackish on organic farms.  Labor conditions are a widespread issue, that is not unique to agriculture, never mind organic agriculture. Although there is no data in this article to speak either way, it begs the question:  are these problems unique to organic farms? or commercial farms?

]]>