Humph.  A glowing report about a huge development that the developer promises will be Green.  And near the bottom, the real news:  there are reservations "from commercial development analysts and renewable energy experts".  Who likes it?  The developer (natch) and politicians.   Am I surprised that yet again we rely on the word of politicians and ignore advice from the experts in the field?   The senior economist at NRDC "wasn't sure the developers knew what they were in for....I have a hard time believing that the DestiNY executives can deliver on their green promise."  Followed by stats that the amount of alternative fuel would be a drop in the bucket to what other countries are doing.  And, to cap it off, prediction that folks will use enormous amts of fossil fuels to go there.  Is this really good news?  Or, perhaps, only as compared to the energy plan that our government is currently trying to foist off on us?

While I must give applause for the effort, since a "zero-energy" mega-mall would spur renewable energy investment and development, I'm still skeptical. I am a resident of Syracuse, and a student at Syracuse's College of Environmental Science and Forestry. Syracuse is certainly in need of an economic boost, but I think that a mega-mall touted as environmentally-friendly is missing the point. While it's possible that the mall could actually be powered entirely by renewable energies (which I'll only believe when I see it) the fact is, it will still be the biggest mall ever built by mankind in modern times. America is already the largest consumer society in the world. This is a principle factor driving many of the environmental problems we face in this country. Building a mega-mall based on renewable energies, while touting consumerism, and at the same time producing mass amounts of waste, seems a bit ironic.

The proposed site of the mall, on the shores of Onondaga Lake, is far from ideal.  Onondaga Lake is one of the only wet Superfund sites in the country. It is one of the most polluted waterbodies in America, and building a mega-mall on its shores is only going to add to the waste and sewage dumped into the lake. Congel touts the "paradigm-shift" that this DestiNY will produce in the renewable energy market. What about the paradigm shift we should be striving toward? The paradigm shift AWAY from consumerism.

In addition, while there are two highways intersecting in the middle of Syracuse, neither would be capable of handling the excess load caused by tourists. This would mean a widening of the highways into areas that are mostly low-income and minority communities. Many of these communities became low income and minority because of the original building of the highways. These communities don't need more destruction and separation; they need investment and attention. A mega-mall is not going to bring that help. And, while powering it on renewable energies is a great idea for many reasons, I don't think a mega-mall, no matter how it's powered will bring much help to any of the environment.

Let's not get too carried away praising this project. Yes, it may help develop the market for renewable energy source harvesters, such as solar panels and wind turbines. And, as a showcase, it will have a high educational value, including  lessons learned during construction and ongoing maintenance and operations costs.

But it's still a big mall; meaning the vast majority of patrons will arrive and depart via private automobile. Remember that the auto is what makes big box retail stores and malls possible in the first place; the larger the development, the large the geographic area it must draw customers from to maintain sales volume. Where's the residential component? Where's the office component so that the parking can be shared (office during the day, mall in the evenings and weekends)? At least it's on a brownfield, which implies a more central location than a green field.

Further, lets look at the sources of energy the mall will be using. Solar and wind; great. Fuel cells, if the hydrogen truly comes from renewable energy sources; great. But slightly over half (53%) of the energy needs of the project are scheduled to be met with biodiesel and biomass. Biofuels only make sense as long as they are sourced from the waste stream of another process; i.e. agriculture. Once you start growing the biomass for the sole purpose of generating energy, it becomes energy negative. The energy inputs of tilling the ground, planting seeds, fertilizing, harvesting, and processing into fuel consumes more energy than the resulting fuel provides. So, biofuels are inherently limited in their ability to ever supplant more than a small fraction of the fossil fuels we use today.

So, as showcase for the potential of solar, wind, and renewable hydrogen powered fuel cells, the project has considerable merit. But let's not go overboard and say this project represents the future of sustainable development.

A very interesting story on a very interesting project, but I was surprised to see that nobody apparently bothered to ask what the mall developer's plans were for transit options.  

Many sources in the story, as well as some blog contributors, rightly pointed out that malls inherently encourage wasteful fuel consumption by private autos.  But this could be at least somewhat mitigated by negotiating regular bus service with the local transit authority, and by providing bike shelters and bike paths that connect safely with city bike paths or bikeable streets.  

In fact, an attractive bike/pedestrian path loop meandering all around the mall grounds, and connecting via multiple "spoke" access paths to the mall itself, might tempt some shoppers to park a little farther from the doors and get a little exercise, as well as tempting cyclists and pedestrians to stop in at the mall for a snack.

Syracuse environmentalists should push the issue of accomodating multimodal transit at DestiNY with the developers and public officials, and Grist should follow up their original story to let us know the outcome.

When I first read about this I wished I still lived in NY.  Sounded great.  I agree with most of the other bloggers though, and would add one more thing I find upsetting, and that is that "Clear Channel" is involved!

As I was reading this article I was envisioning residential areas developing around the DestiNY USA hub, with easy foot or bicycle access or convenient, clean public transportation to the amenities of DestiNY USA.

I foresee with the urban sprawl around major US cities, that both urban and suburban communities will set-up amenity hubs in their towns, for shopping, gathering, services and entertainment, with easy access, without cars.  Obviously, these amenity hubs may not be as elaborate as DestiNY USA, but would still provide the amenities that people want.

Then hubs could be connected with energy efficient public transportation corridors (using biofuels, renewable electric, fuel cells, etc.), with express lanes for cars to minimize stop-n-go traffic.

Thus our American, suburban lifestyle could be maintained; Movement within communities could be manual or by efficient public transportation; and amenity hubs could be great gathering, service, entertainment and shopping places (preferrably with a significant portion of locally produced or fair trade goods).

So, eventhough their was concern expressed in the article about burning fossil fuels to get to DestiNY USA.  That problem can eventually be eliminated as we convert to biofuels, hydrogen or other clean fuels, plus efficient, comfortable, convenient public transportation.  Cars and trucks won't go away, but we can do alot to make public transportation more attractive, thus minimizing car use and the number of vehicles on the road.

This process and transition would realistically happen over decades.

Too bad Congel is such a snake oil salesman.

This project has been languishing for years, and with good reason -- Congel wants an endless stream of subsidies and tax breaks and nothing has been built yet, yet he's still got his palm out.

Now, because he wants to build a huge R&D park, the city is about to kick out a couple dozen business owners via eminent domain, without paying them fair value for the loss of their location.  

If you want to write about revolutionary environmental proposals in the Syracuse area, why not write about environmental justice -- issues such as the Onondaga land rights action, where the Onondaga Nation is foregoing casino demands in favor of proper cleanup for Onondaga Lake?  

I mean, why quote from a Congel press release?

Apologies for the digression, but I'd like to respond to this line in David's post:

Once you start growing the biomass for the sole purpose of generating energy, it becomes energy negative. The energy inputs of tilling the ground, planting seeds, fertilizing, harvesting, and processing into fuel consumes more energy than the resulting fuel provides.

-x-

It depends on the fuel being displaced by a given biofuel. If a commercially produced biofuel can displace heavy fuel oil or coal, even full-cost accounting of all inputs may show that biofuels are desirable from an environmental and climate mitigation perspective.

The issue of land use is a further complication in assessing biofuels. But unless you're going to clear virgin rainforest to plant jatropha, it's not a reason to dismiss biofuels as unpromising.

So, maybe complex will be completely green-powered. However, I doubt all the power requirements of the facility will offset the amount of carbon emissions from the cars, trucks, buses, trains, and airplanes that get visitors there and home. Anyway, in my opinion, a vision that tries to use green power (and green building???) as a means to fuel a greater consumeristic lifestyle is a backward one.

While it'd be nice to see a massive example of green-built structures in the U.S., rather than offer the nation yet another reason to spend money on more "stuff," perhaps Congel would be better liked by the environmental masses if he developed a green town. Anyway, I've had enough just hearing that the parking space alone would be about the same area as the National Mall. Apparently, no one has considered trying to reduce traffic, let alone energy or environmental impact.