I live near busy roads so I'd probably still be keeping my cats inside even if I wasn't concerned about the birds. I also worry about diseases from other cats and wild animals. And the foxes and coyotes that would see my kitties as prey. And don't forget about steel-jaw leghold traps which are still legal in most states. These traps are set to catch wild animals for the fur trade but they often catch cats and dogs as well.  

I don't think a cat needs to be let outside for him or her to be a happy feline.  Make your inside space interesting with some fun toys and a nice cat condo and lots of love and attention and they'll be content.

Dogs can be a problem with wildlife too. Not so much birds but small mammals. I read about an unleashed dog killing a groundhog at a local park. So make sure to keep your dog on a leash.

Good weather after a couple of hard winters that reduced the number of predators has resulted in an overpopulation of mice in the Northeastern United States.  Maybe you all just love the little critters, but I do not.  I'd just as soon let our little monster kill the buggers to their hearts' content.  I don't see many dead birds, but they average something like three or four mice a week between them (that they bring around for me to find), and that's a good thing.

"Small mammals means mice, right?"

Yep mice, pocket mice, jumping mice and of course all the various voles, chipmunks, gophers, squirrels, flying squirrels moles, rabbits, prairie dogs and shrews Americans are lucky to have spread across their continent. Then of course there is the reptile and amphibian prey they take (a lot of it beneficial in control of undesirable insects and excess rodents).

If you have a mouse problem unleashing a cat to hunt all wildlife it can lay its claws on is really not a great answer for the cat, your mouse problem or the rest of your neighbouring wildlife.

This story is absurd, and it's the kind of blabber that gives progressives a bad name.  First of all, there is no way to prove the numbers presented here, which are beyond excessive.  Secondly, how many of the birds are nuisance birds and/or invasive species?  My full time outdoor cat kills 2 types of birds, pigeons and blue jays.  These birds are completely annoying and I am thankful to her for helping to control their population.  She also kills rats, mice, and baby possums.  We should be thankful for this service.  This is nature, and we shouldn't stand in the way of such things.  Besides, any bird, (Hello, they fly!) that can't escape a terra-bound cat, was certainly in trouble to begin with.  I'm pretty sure that wild birds have more to fear from raptors and other truly wild predators, than house cats who are out for some air.  What would the bird lovers have us do, wipe out hawks and owls, too?  Lastly, why is it that whenever these wishy-washy articles pop up, they never include the numbers of cats that are put down each year?  In my county alone, over 50,000 are gassed annually. No one ever sticks up for these cats.  In summary, there are far more things to fear than household cats taking out a bird or three.  Overall, cats surely are more helpful than not.        

I find it disgusting that you would wish death and disease on any animal.  If that is not hypocrisy, then please, tell me what is?  

As a former Cat Lady (max. 9 at a time, but that was including kittens), I'm going to stick my nose in here to say that cats have individual preferences for prey. I used to let my indoor/outdoor cats roam in a rural area, and got different "presents" from different cats. One specialized in birds, one went after mice, and one had a taste for grasshoppers and garter snakes. Another one brought me a very young live bunny, which I caught and set free while keeping the cat in another room. He was not much of a hunter, and since the rabbit was unharmed I suspected he wanted to keep it as a pet.

Anyhoo, just because a cat is outside that doesn't mean it is killing birds. And when are the bird lovers going to get rid of the starlings and other imports? Any word on that?

Thank you Umbra. There are several places in my community where people think they are doing the cats justice by catching them, spay or neutering them and then releasing them. Every morning some one is out there feeding them. The food is also attracting the birds who then become food themselves. A lot of communities are allowing this because if they try to stop it the cat people are up in arms. Cats don't attack people generally so the cities say fine, feed your cats. I will print your response and continue my battle with the cat people.

As the kitty mom to 3 indoor cats thank you for the other reason to keep your cat indoors. The only problem in your argument is you have to make sure the cats have been trained to kill in the first place. A lot of cats are taken away from their mothers too young to have learned how to hunt properly. Our 3 cats unfortunately for us and the mice that occasionally wander into our house weren't. As a result they just play with the mice until it dies of heart attack or something else or we've caught it and put it out for the owls.

What's the first to keep them indoors? Longer life expectancy. I had several outdoor cats growing up none of them lived longer than 7 year until we started keeping them inside. Now I have cats that are 16, 15 and 5. It's not only cars you have to worry about but disease - tics, feline hiv, etc., poison- one cat we had died of eating a bad plant, predators - owls don't eat cats but since they have to kill when they attack or be killed, they often accidentally kill them, not to mention hawks, wolves, your local variety of big cat.

And for the person who hates Blue Jays, while you may not like Blue Jays, they actually help other birds flee from predators. If you had bird feeders, you'd know that Blue Jays are often on the perimeter warning other birds about potential threats.

What's wrong with Blue Jays? They are very family oriented, great bug catchers and parents. I recently saw 2 babies in my Palmetto brush that were not yet flying. They were adorable. When I got to close, into the brush they went. Mom was up in the tree watching. You are one of those cat people that have blinders on and think the cats are being prosecuted. They are not native to the environment and should not be cuddled. If you think they are then just throw them into the Everglades or forrest and see how long they live.
 

Ok...at the end of the day, the fact remains that humans are sprawling out, into natural areas at an alarming rate.  We don't travel alone...we bring a multitude of issues for wildlife and environments to deal with:  pollution (noise, light and chemical included), destruction and of course, our domesticated professional hunters - the cat.

I live with 2 cats, both were out-doors prior.
Neither one appreciated being kept inside, and I don't blame them...

They've since adjusted and unleash no harm on our environment, and are subject to nothing that could intentionally, or accidentally, harm them.

It does suck to be kept inside, but the harm outweighs the good.  As Umbra said, nature has a balance, of which cats are no longer a part of - - they're typically well cared for with veterinary care and vaccinations (some of which are only partly effective and the cats can catch diseases from wild animals, regardless).

Sending them out the door unleashes a fury unknown by local wild animals.

As for not seeing dead birds everywhere, there could be a number of reasons...one being that, if the bird's able to get away with minor scratches or cuts, they'll die a slow painful death due to the immense bacteria in cat's saliva, and are likely hiding as most dying wild animals are.

For yet another example of human selfishness, cats were domesticated nearly 4000 years ago in Egypt - like it or not, they're are responsibility now.

We know better and must do all we can to minimize our negative impact where we can - and this is one way.

As for not defending the insane number of cats that are euthanized daily, most animal activists do (I know, I am one).  To build on this topic, a LARGE number of these feral cats are created by UNFIXED OUTDOOR CATS - full circle....

What a silly, silly argument.  Having a huge population of 'domestic', not natures own born and bred, cats, can only do one thing to the population of wild birds.  Cats do not discriminate between a population of animals you think of as a menace and those that you don't.  Saying that a bird doesn't stand much chance if it can't avoid a cats hunting isn't really a very clever thing to say either, cats are born hunters and really wouldn't be very good cats if they couldn't catch animals such as birds.  I think you really need to think about what you are saying before you post it.  A huge domesticated population of cats can only do damage to a population of wild birds that regulates itself through nature, cats on the other hand will survive no matter what is thrown at them because they are sustained unnaturally by their owners.

" This is nature, and we shouldn't stand in the way of such things.  Besides, any bird, (Hello, they fly!) that can't escape a terra-bound cat, was certainly in trouble to begin with.  I'm pretty sure that wild birds have more to fear from raptors and other truly wild predators, than house cats who are out for some air.  What would the bird lovers have us do, wipe out hawks and owls, too?"

We have a cat who was born outdoors and after 4 years still wants to go out a lot.  We have found a way that works for us (people and cat).  He has a harness and a 30 foot leash that allows him to wander the yard, hide under a bush, and watch nature.  He is not much of a hunter, but likes to occasionally chase after another animal.  He is restricted by the length of the leash.  The squirrels, rabbits, birds, and voles all have figured out how close they can get and be safe.  We have never found a dead bird or other animal (or parts thereof), with the exception of one dead vole that seems to have died of a heart attack (which may or may not have been caused by our cat).

I found these posts and the article interesting, because I'm a birder and a cat owner.  By birder I mean I go on week-long birding trips to see new species to add to my life list; I don't just "like birds."  I love both species, birds and cats.  However, I have read enough (and seen enough behavior from my prior cats and my current cat) that I realize as much as I'd like to let my cat roam outdoors, it is hugely unfair to the wild bird population, which as some posters above correctly pointed out, did not evolve with domesticated cats and so cannot escape from them.  It's a grossly unfair balance, with birds on the losing side.  Every study that's been done says that cats kill many millions of birds annually.  And only some of these birds are non-native, nuisance species such as European starlings and House Sparrows (neither of which are protected in the U.S.).  As annoying as some may find blue jays, they are a native species and are protected.  Cats kill millions upon millions of warblers, wrens, flycatchers and other native (and endangered or threatened) birds each year.  Really, songbirds and other wild bird species are in enough trouble due to humans (habitat destruction, climate change, pollution, etc.) that they shouldn't have to deal with cats too.

My current (one) cat has been indoors-only since we adopted him from a rescue group as a young kitten.  And he's a happy cat.  Actually, he loves watching the birds at the feeders just outside our kitchen window.  He's safe and the birds are safe.  I love cats -- but I wish every cat owner would keep their cat(s) indoors.  

I have an 8 y/o spayed female that was formally a stray belonging to some of the multitude of stray cats fed by a neighbor who claimed that they did not belong to her but couldn't bear they go hungry.  My asberger's/bipolar son brought her home one day and because of her very tolerant nature, I made an executive decision to keep her, even though my hubby (then out of town) would have a fit.  He is VERY allergic and the cat had to stay out doors or upstairs, away from the general living area.  Unfortunately, she was catching multiple birds a week, sometimes 2 in one day!  as a birdlover, I was horrified and I couldn't, until recently, save a single one.  I found the "CAT STOP" bib that Umbra mentions after searching for a solution.  It has made a dramatic dent in our birdy slaughter, but I have found that they need to be replaced before the neoprene gets too old and curled, because that is when Tiger Lily seems to be able to manage to get one.  After they wear it awhile, 6 months or so, I find that I can give her a break, as long as it is not windy or "baby bird learning to fly time".  I love all nature and respect ALL creatures.  I am for resonsible ownership of all pets, because it usually is the pets or wild critters that pay the IMMEDIATE price, though our mismanagement eventually will affect us all.  I would keep our beloved kitty in if I could without a divorce, or give her to a friend, but for a child who needs her.  I have thought about building a very large outside area for her, but I have not been able to manage to do so yet, though I think that that could be a vialble alternative if done right.  Any, sorry so long, but wanted to add my 2 cents.  BTW, she catches primarily mourning doves, gold finches, and sparrows.  I recently saw her jump and pull a gold finch OUT OF THE AIR!  Because I ran out quickly, i was able to rescue the bird.  I brought it to the vet which splinted it's wing, but he said that it probably wouldn't survive the bacteria.  I treated the open wounds with a combination of "theives" (a young living essential oil, and organic coconut oil.  She was released (took OFF and never looked back) 4 months later.

Thanks especially to Nancy of the Humane Society, and the owner of Tiger Lily, too.

I now have 2 cats, both spayed females, that were given to me by their previous owners/companions. The young 3 year old was raised indoors, and mostly likes to just sniff the fresh air when a door is opened. The older 14 year old Himalayan spent several months "lost" outdoors (before I had her), and was finally found and taken to the vet to recover from the adventure. She loves to be outside and just sit on our picnic table in the backyard. She does stay in most of the winter, and when it's otherwise nasty weather. She's too fast for me to catch as she runs out, and I can't change her habits at this stage.

I love birds and other animals too. I hope we all can respect each other's opinions, and that some of us are very grateful for our pets, and try to be responsible as far as we know how.

Nature?  Nature?  NATURE?

Please point me to where in the school books it says that domesticated cats are native to the USA.  Or any country.  Then we can talk about "nature."

I think some people are having difficulty reading the tongue in cheek approach to the 'Bird Flu killing cats' section of this article.  The article is about the pros and cons of indoor and outdoor cats.  Don't get your knickers in a twist over a comment that wasn't meant as you took it as far as I can tell.  Maybe some reading in between the lines is needed....

OK, I know this is going to be a terrible comment for most folks - but species population logic be damned I will always let my cats hunt.  I'd rather have my cats live only 5 years and let them fulfill their natural behavior than have them live 17 years stuck in a house chasing dust.  Of course I grew up with feral farmhouse cats and just seeing them in their element I can say the difference with a kept or indoor cat is utterly overwhelming.

We already rob them of their reproductive and child-rearing purpose, and it seems like a quarter of cat owners are willing to dress them up in little outfits like they are playthings.  Don't take the only other behavior that gives their life meaning: let them hunt.

I find that if I talk to my cats, they make the right choice.  We discuss birds and their benefit to society.  We look at pictures of different kinds of birds and study the population of each bird in our area.  Then I let my cats make the choice for themselves, who am I to tell them what to do?

I understand what you are trying to say, but cats hunt for food, if you think that gives them meaning in their lives then maybe you should stop feeding them and let them hunt for a purpose.  Cats can live happy, long and full lives without having to hunt.  How about a ball of string or some other method of satisfying their hunting / playing instincts?  There is always another way....

There are a few good reasons for keeping your pet cat indoors; this is one of them.

But a reduced impact on the environment isn't the best reason to keep a cat indoors. Indoor cats kept live longer, period. Indoor cats are exposed to fewer diseases and no unforgiving vehicular traffic.

Indoor cats don't suffer for being denied the ability to hunt, and outdoor cats can't seriously be credited with decimating overpopulations for the benefit of the planet. And, it must be said, that the suffering of cat prey is real: cats don't kill quickly.

So, party on, Umbra, but remember that sometimes there is a win-win answer.

Brave post Umbra.  Unfortunately, you won't get through to some folks.  There will always be the gashog drivers that swear that global warming couldn't be caused by vehicles and you will always have cat lovers that stand in denial as well. You encouraged me to bring my cat inside.  It isn't easy. she is quick and runs between my legs when I walk out the door.

A perception of what you think makes your cat happy is hardly a justification to let it hunt wild birds with a full bowl of food at home.  Even if you don't care about birds at all, others do!  Imagine the inverse of what you are saying.  Would you mind if your cat were hunted, by someone's dog that doesn't care about your cat?  My dog is a hunter and I must keep her under my watchful eye, otherwise I'll have a pile of cats on my porch.  I cannot "let her hunt" any more than you should let your cat hunt.

There are so many lonely humans out there to love why do we need to dote on cats and dogs? Is it 'cause they love us unconditionally? Does that make our love for them conditional. I'll love you as long as you are not a human and it's not a risk to love you. Replacing human relationships with pets is a cop out.

I  notice that, if the  cat kill  something, 90% of the time, it is a mouse or a very  young  rabbit.

It is  know that  mice carry (deer)ticks that  carry  lyme disease. I  feel more comfortable  knowing that my  cat  reduces the rodent  population around the  house.

I  have 4 birdhouses. Once, the cat  killed one young bird. I now keep  the  cat  indoors when the young ones are ready to fledge.

From my  personnal  observation, the effect  of the cat  on the  bird population is not  significant. I  am glad the cat  limits the mice population.

i believe we're on the same side, here, but studies have shown that cats attack prey for reasons beyond sustenance...

one in particular had a number of cats in a room eating food from bowls.  some mice were brought in,  the cats quit eating, bopped and killed the mice,  then went back to eating....

Recently 2 very small cats were listed as missing in my neighborhood. As I walk my dogs in the morning I see a hawk swirling over our back yards. The ultimate revenge. Bird Eats Cat!

Are you people vegetarians?  What is the difference between a cat eating a bird,  and you eating a cow ?  

Most cats I've known are not that good at catching birds anyway so I suspect their must be other reasons for the song birds dissapearence.

We keep our cats indoors -- not just to protect the local wildlife, but to protect our beloved kitties from disease, traffic, weather, predators (we've got coyotes here in Maine, not to mention hawks that have been known to attack cats), and other threats.

If you love your animals, I don't see any reason for letting them outdoors.

Of what benefit to mankind is an overabundance of vermin in our environment?  Please enlighten me.

well if you think solely in terms of immediate benefit to mankind then I'm guessing a lot of ecological concerns are gonna drop off your list....but as I said before is allowing a cat to eat/kill a load of other stuff really the best way to deal with the vermin issue?

Thank you Umbra.    Note to Nancy Peterson, those studies are real, shame on you for sounding like George Bush on global warming. Pathetic to engage in that debate. Undebatable that feral cats are causing (in combination with loss of habitat, etc.) local and regional extinctions of song bird species now.  Period.  We don't have the resources to feed, house and educate our citizens, let alone "manage" feral cat populations.  Feral cats should be destroyed if they can't be adopte out.   As an environmentalist who would like my grandkids to have a chance at seeing (or at least know they still exist) the songbirds, etc. that live now, I'll choose songbirds over feral cats anyday. And your link doesn't work.

And for those with mice problems, Victor traps cost <$1.00 and work well with peanut butter.  

I used to let my cats go outside.  It seemed like the natural thing to do.  Sometimes they would come back with an animal, some cats I had were mousers, others preferred birds, I had one cat who was always bringing in little snakes.  I never really thought about the impact my cats were having on the wildlife population.  I thought hunting was natural, and it was all part of the circle of life.  I never thought about populations depending on each other for food, or anything as complicated as that.
We eventually stopped letting our cats go outside because, unfortunately, we were often faced with the impact that the wildlife population had on our cats.  We lost more kittens growing up to coyotes, owls, raccoons and other local wild life (not to mention cars, other cats and theiving neighbors) than my poor little heart could take.  By the time I was 16, my family had had enough and our cats stayed inside where they were safe.
For the record, I too live in the suburbs.  Human population does not make your pets immune.
My cats are healthy and happy inside, and are far from sedentary.  I enjoy playing with them on a regular basis, and they play with each other.  They even still get to hunt, because occasionally a bug or a spider gets in the house, and they are just as happy hunting and stalking those creatures as they are going after pidgeons and field mice.  And if they can't find a bug, they have no problem stalking a ribbon, or a piece of hard candy, or a pony tail holder, or a foot under a blanket.
It amazes me that we live in a world where people are afraid to let their children play outside because of the dangers, but will argue day and night about why their pets should roam free through the neighborhoods, two steps shy of ferral.  If we are going to worry about someone being bored and sedentary, we should be worried about our children (who usally don't pose much of a threat to the song bird population, I might add), and not our cats.  The house is a much bigger world for a cat than it is for a person.

Thank you for the funny and equally informative article. It's enough to convince me to keep my 15-lb cat indoors for good. Zeus roamed the great outdoors for a couple of years, a wily indoor cat who somehow always  managed to outwit his dimwit townhouse masters and got out all the time. I have since moved to a new second floor apartment and since he can't jump off the balcony, he's been on house arrest and has become a little tubby, yes, but the only things he uses his claws on these days are my legs and the upholstery. I have no doubt that during his time of freedom he did his share of killing -- I think he would maim me as well if I weren't ten times heavier than he is.

Thanks, Umbra, this Q&A plus thread, which I am just now seeing, is very interesting, and potentially beneficial, if only certain iron-headed people who have responsibility for the care of cats and should know better would pay attention.

You certainly do not need to be "ashamed of yourself."  Probably what Nancy Peterson had in mind was the bad misapplication of the U. of Wisconsin study a couple of years back to propose legislation in that state authorizing the killing of feral cats.  But feral cats present a somewhat different set of issues than do cats with people and homes, whose people let them wander outside.

In fact, from what I was observing recently when I was looking into the matter, the animal welfare organizations that give information and recommendations regarding feral cats, including HSUS, tend not to address the issue of the impact of feral cats on populations of songbirds and other wildlife.  The common recommendation of catch-neuter-release programs is perhaps the best available solution for most of those cats; but it should be acknowledged that that is far from a perfectly happy solution, to a large extent because feral cats are predators introduced to ecosystems that have not adapted to their presence.  I am very happy, though, that Nancy's organization, the HSUS, which is the one that I most trust and support in most matters, is committed to the difficult work of finding the right local conditions in which colonies of feral cats may be placed.

PETA, I believe, prefers a catch-neuter-rehabilitate-adopt policy.  That is indeed possible, and sounds like it should be optimal.  But it strikes me that it requires so many very dedicated, knowledgeable and well-trained people to implement it fully, on top of all the uncertainty involved in pet adoption, that it is probably impractical.

But Nancy is absolutely right: All friends of cats, and of songbirds and other wildlife, respectively, should be able to agree that the reduction of the numbers of cats outdoors, whether feral or having homes, is a highly desirable goal.  There is no need whatsoever to enlarge the absurd schism that seems to have broken open between the allies of cats and the allies of birds.

Unfortunately, as a couple of comments in this thread make clear, the love of cats can certainly be far from enlightened, and is not necessarily accompanied by a lively concern for the welfare of all animals.  It is not surprising that people who themselves eat meat, and who have no ethical objection to hunting, will similarly have no objection when it is their cats who are doing the hunting.

What is truly weird, though, is the way some people project their own psychological needs and dispositions onto their companion animals.  People who refuse to have their animals spayed or neutered, despite the best advice from all quarters, because that would be "unnatural" and "cruel," are like that -- as though, just because sexual activity, or the hope of it, is hugely important to these people, it should be just as important to their cats and dogs.  And the same is true of confused attitudes about how cats need to spend a lot of time outdoors in order for their lives to be "fulfilled."  Where in the world does that come from?

At least many people who have responsibility for the care of cats, such as Richard Soenneker of Malden, MA, will place the real welfare of their cats first; and when they learn that letting their cats roam free tends drastically to put those cats in mortal danger, they responsibly reconsider.  But very troubling is the comment in the thread above, that it is preferable for a cat to be allowed to live only five years, if that brief life were "fulfilled," than a typically full life span of seventeen "unfulfilled" years -- and all that is meant by "unfulfilled" is without freedom to roam outdoors.  In a just society, a person with such an attitude would not be allowed to have responsibility for the care of cats.

why not build an outdoot cat enclosure that can be attatched to the house so kitty can come and go freely without harming critters or pooping in other peoples yards?  out here in the country, we shoot stray cats as they spread disease and kill young chickens.  no to mention, digging and pooping in our vegetable gardens.  i have 6 spayed cats and 6 neutered rabbits.  they live in a huge outdoor enclosure and are perfectly content.(see "thecatsden.net", "catsofaustralia.com")
they are safe and happy.  however, the local strays have either been shot on sight, or killed by our livestock dogs. in hawaii, the cats are wreaking havoc on the local snakes and birds.
keep your cat inside!

This suggestion is guaranteed to (at the least) reduce the problem dramatically. Tips even in the anecdotes.

Human-bonded cats are very trainable -- responsive to the affirmation and the scolding of the beloved humans.  And, many/most cats prefer a routine. So:

Scheduled Outdoor Play Time:
If you wish to let your cats go outdoors, try to give them scheduled outdoor play time.  Start them with a schedule of an hour or two a day (weather appropriate) when you are home to watch them.  Best time to let them out would be right after you get home from work, as they will be anxious to spend time with you. Don't interact with them in the house too much when you first get home; save that interaction for the outdoors to keep them close to you. Just feed them, then let them out right away.  (If it won't encourage their hunting, give them just a bit of food first, then the rest when they come in, as an incentive to do so.)  They will spend the first 15 minutes pooping and bathing, but will be doing so in the great outdoors, which they so love.  Outdoor time is outdoor time to them.  They are not that particular about what they do when they have it.  Basically, you will learn what their huntless (/boredom) tolerance is, and they too will learn your tolerance for undesirable behavior.  

(This is no different than you would do with a child. You give them a designated amount of outdoor play time. And, should they misbehave during the alloted time, you bring them in.)

On-demand Call:
Get them use to coming on demand.  Call them in with a special bell, special whistle or sound, or kazoo for that matter. I have favored the "hooty hoo, hooty hoo" from the "Andy Griffith Show". Actually, something with a pitch range that they can hear long-range, but not so obnoxious to human neighbors is a good bet. Or, shake a treats container if they really respond to their treats. Something unique and discreet. A bell has worked well for me...and my cats. (Worked for Pavlov!) And, be consistent.  No matter where they are when play time ends -- even if at your feet -- sound their come-hither noise as you lead them into the house.

Also, you can use this device to keep them in your range of sight.  If they stray outside your acceptable range, call them back. (At first, while they are learning, don't bring them in immediately once you call them back; they won't understand. But, do call them back and give them a "stay in your yard" command or treat.  [Yep, had a cat who truly learned what that phrase meant.]

Their Play Time, Your Play Time:
During play time, go outdoors with them.  Read a book, rake leaves, garden, or whatever -- think of it as your play time too. From my experience, pets LOVE for you to be outdoors with them, and generally will want to stay close to you.

If you live in a rural area, take them for a walk.

Ultimately, whether you stay out with them the whole time or not, you at least should get into the habit of checking on them about every 15 minutes.  That is about how long it takes them to start wandering out of sight. In fact, you might find that after a while this tactic works better, as every time that you pop back out to check on them, they want to run over to say hello. A pleasant distraction.

Scold and Distract:
When you see them exhibit the slightest hunting gesture, give them a firm, loving scolding immediately and distract them with a natural outdoor toy -- a twig, leaves whatever.  Teach them that there are other natural outdoor toys better suited for their enjoyment.

Again from my experience, well-fed cats dont't hunt.  But, they do play.  If you can create a play experience at least as challenging/fulfilling as chasing a mouse, they no doubt will much prefer the play connection with you. Frankly, climbing a tree to chase a squirrel will be far too demanding when better options exist.

Return = Reward:
Each time that you do bring them inside, immediately lavish them with good-boy compliments and an obscene amount of affection, and give them a treat (if they respond to that), for coming in.

Indoor Fun and Views:
Do provide them with a good outside view -- preferably in a sunny spot -- with a place to sit at the window.  If they are hunters, I would not suggest having a bird feeder in their view, as it just teases them.  Besides, you should not have a bird feeder in your yard period. You then are just baiting the birds -- their death will be your fault.

Definitely introduce some variety into your home regularly. That will help keep them amused indoors. Perhaps, ocassionally put out an empty box, or something new, for them to explore or sleep in/on.  Don't just leave out the same cat toys; this won't work well beyond kitten stage. Change them out.

Modify as Needed:
You can modify the schedule as time goes on, if necessary.  You don't want to expand their privilege (although start generously); if anything, cut it back. But, don't modify it to suit your laziness.  If you get lucky, they will do it for you.  Seasonal conditions also might discourage their desire to be outdoors for too long.

More Fresh Air for You!
If you are thinking that this is too much trouble for you, you don't love your cats' freedom as much as you think that you do.  And, afterall, the benefit to you is...more outdoor time!  More fresh air, more exercise, more enjoyment of watching nature.

ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE:
#1: I am, at this writing, watching my neighbor's "indoor" cats enjoying the outdoors while he is home for lunch.  When his lunchtime ends, so too does their outdoor play time.  He also lets them go outside when he is doing yard work or something else outdoors.

#2: My other neighbor has this very intelligent, crafty 3-year-old Maincoon named Felix.  I took care of Felix as a feral baby, then she adopted him; I remain his backup caretaker.  I am well-familiar with his routines, which he adores. She lets him out only when she is home: early in the morning before she goes to work, and as soon as she comes home at night.  She keeps his routine constant, even on her days off.  He is out for about 3 hours each time, which happens to be his boredom threshold.  She does this barely-audible-to-human-ear "kisk, kisk, kisk" that he hears from far away and to which he comes blazing. It is his special noise, and he honors it.  (She, by the way, never stays outside with him. Even though he was a feral such a short time ago, I have never seen him hunt anything.  I have seen him chase a squirrel up a tree ocassionally, but with no seeming expectation of catching it.)  ...When my neighbor does have to tell Felix 'no' for something other than being out-right bad (such as if the stands at the door to go out beyond play time), she gives him this soft, very sad and sympathetic "noooo, noooo", to which he responds well.

#3: My beloved Spooky was content being indoors, but enjoyed her forays outside.  She was my faithful companion for 13 years, which oft times included living in places not safe enough for her to be outdoors.  One place that I lived had a small but lovely fenced backyard.  When I was home, I would leave the backdoor open so that she could come and go into the yard as she pleased.  In the evenings, after suppertime, she would stand at the backdoor and stare at the knob pathetically.  I would look into her little eyes, wag a 'peace sign', and say "two minutes; two minutes", then close the door back most of the way to keep out the mosquitos.  Sure enough, 2 minutes later, with a loud thumb, the door would come flying open as she burst through the door. My little Spooky wasn't the sharpest knife in the kitty drawer, but even she was easily trainable.

Bitch as loudly for spay/neuter campaigns!  If everyone was a responsible pet owner, there would not be a problem with stray and feral animals.

Have your pet (or anyone elses) spayed or neutered immediately!

I am the proud caretaker of a feral cat colony (3 cats), which I will permanently adopt when I move. The feral cat programs, trap-neuter-release, are humane solutions to a growing problem caused by effing idiot humans.

There is more scrutiny on the feral cats.  Those in the programs must be tested for FeulLuk (?), neutered, have rabies and often other vaccinations maintained, and be fed regularly by their caretakers. More than can be said for many 'regular' pets. My neighbor's so-called indoor-only female cat has had 3 litters of kittens in the 4 years that I have lived in the neighborhood.  I begged him repeatedly to have her neutered; even offered to pay for it and take her. (He claims that she now is neutered.)

I, too, am suspicious of the data attributing the decline of songbirds simply to cats. My empirical evidence has shown me otherwise. I have rarely seen even my ferals hunt. (If I do, I intervene.)  Moreover, they always return hungry.  So, they could not have been out filling up on birds.

I suppose that cats are responsible for the decline of bees too.  Hmmmm. Is it possible that the same thing that could be killing the bees (pesticides, high-tension wires, cell phone towers, or other anthropogenic factor) could be killing birds -- fairly delicate creatures?

What about hawks? They eat lots of mice, and don't seem to have a lot of predators.  Cats have many predators and, more and more, are vulnerable to diseases (not to mention Chinese-made pet food). My 10-year-old cat just died of cancer, which is occuring in cats at an increasing rate. Human cause? Most likely. So, I don't get that 'lack of balance' argument.

I truly have been surprised by the lack of compassion of this thread, on this blog.  

I'm sure you all would rather I add to the ecological problem of hazardous materials in the environment - pesticides in this instance, but I prefer a more natural solution, hence our two cats.

Caniscandida pretty much summed it up.  I'd like to add that trapping and killing feral cats will not solve the problem. I think all of us would like to see less feral cats and the way to do that is to concentrate on spaying and neutering them, not killing them. Studies have shown that if you take adult feral cats out of the environment, other (usually non-fixed) cats will just move into take their place and breed more kittens. We should also focus on rescueing the kittens of feral cats because when you get them young, they can make great pets and are easily adopted out.  The adults are very difficult to find homes for.

If more people adopted from animal shelters rather than going to the pet store or to breeders, we'd be in a better situation. So instead of fighting, bird lovers and cat lovers should work together to promote the keeping of cats indoors, adoption over breeding, and the spaying and neutering of feral cats.

This is ridiculous.  Stop whimpering about your precious cats.  I'm so sick of pets' rights fanatics.  Why not go protest the senseless murder of termites, or cockroaches?  

Re: "cats kill invasive species."  Cats are an invasive species.  How do you define invasive species?  How are WE not an invasive species?
Cats are a species favored by humans.  Like corn, the species owes its survival to us, and only us.  
 Might a population boom in mice have more to do with invasive humans than lack of cats?  
I reserve the right to shoot my neighbor's cat if it kills an animal in my yard.  I don't even feel that I have to back that up.  I have no respect for domesticated animals.

Those of us on the mailing list of BestFriends.org have been notified that one of NYC's most powerful institutions, the Port Authority of NY and NJ, is going to get an outcry of protest, an outyowl if you will, in just a few days.  It seems that Port Authority wants to capture a few hundred feral cats hanging around JFK Airport, and hand them over to animal shelters without a no-kill policy, with the understanding that they will all be euthanized.

Greta and AMC,
thanks for all the cat information and advice.  Greta, I am sure yours is the best feral cat colony in the land.  But I do not know enough about cats to figure this one out.  They are very beautiful animals, and in fact I just got photos of six adorable kittens that want to be adopted -- which I would love to do, but my husband says No.  But I am not really acquainted with cats: I cat-sat a few times, and that is perhaps the worst way to make their acquaintance, since they tend to be mistrustful.

Anyway, there is conflicting wisdom out there on the adoptability of feral cats.  Sure, kittens seem to be no problem.  But adults are another story.  The people organizing the anti-Port Authority protest are saying that feral cats are always simply euthanized, because it is impossible for them to be (re-)domesticated; and so they are prepared to accuse the Port Authority of lying, when they try to assure the public that the cats at JFK will be placed in loving homes.

I have trouble understanding why populations of feral cats should be tolerated, especially when they are decimating bird populations. In San Diego, there is an area of Mission Bay (a regional park) that looks like a perfect nesting site for the endangered Least Tern (limited vegetation, sandy). But there are no terns, because there is a feral cat population that is maintained by a bunch of people who visit regularly and drop off food for them. The park supervisors appear helpless in the face of the threats from the cat lovers.  Meanwhile, we struggle to provide enought habitat for the tern to keep it from going extinct. Are we insane?

First of all, feral cats and stray cats are not the same thing. A stray is an animal who once was a pet.  A feral is an animal that was born into the wild, and generally has not had direct human contact.

It is true that feral cats are not necessarily adoptable. Their survival instincts are very strong.  Confinement is a big issue for them.

Those who give you the impression that the ferals all go to happy homes are lying and they know it.  That is why the feral cat programs advocate maintaining the population in situ. (But, feral cat society's do try to adopt out any and all ferals who seem to adapt well to an indoor environment.)

I have heard stories of feral cats being 'adopted' only to return -- even miles away -- to the rubble pile they called home.  

Even my two (ages ~1-1/2 and 2-1/2 years old), who I have raised from kittens and who are incredibly bonded with me, will run to the woods when they get scared.  They can be sleeping (upstairs) inside the house, hear a noise or voice that they don't recognize and run out of the house, climb down from the 2nd story porch and run 500 feet into the woods. Hopefully, in time, they will learn that their house is the safest place.

My neighbor's Maincoon Felix (~3-1/2 years old) was a feral that I raised since a kitten and she adopted at about 1 year old.  He has perfectly adopted to being an indoor cat with outdoor play times.  

Maincoons typically are very sociable (especially with humans), so I think that breed and age of the feral are contributing factors.

I would encourage people to adopt a feral with the understanding that they might require more time to transition: to trust and to adapt to the indoors.

the issue described about feral cats is exactly the same for homeless people.

Many people consider homeless humans a nuisance.
There are lots of homeless humans, everywhere.
Homless humans have no predators. (Contrary to cats.)
Homeless humans are not very "adoptable".
Homeless humans  are uncomfortable with confinement.
Homeless humans can carry/spread disease.
Programs to help homeless humans  cost taxpayers money.
Homeless humans: what have they done for me lately?
...and so on.

Would you have homeless humans trapped and killed?  Uh, sorry "euthanized" -- you advocates warm and fuzzy term for "killing".  (Killing something because you think that it is a nuisance is not euthanasia.)  Or, maybe like one blogger wrote about feral cats, we shoot just pick em' off with shotguns.

I have worked with homeless shelters, so I have some empirical knowledge about homeless humans too.  Many, many homeless humans cannot handle structure, confinement, and they lack trust.  They have adapted to the homeless ("wild") way of life and their survival instincts are very strong.

At the shelter that I volunteered, homeless who wanted to stay at the shelter need only fill out some little form, and follow basic rules of the shelter.  Many of them would choose to sleep out on the street in the cold instead.

Now, many homeless people would be happy to have a house to confine them, and even rules to live by.

So, as a society...as compassionate people, what we should do is to help find homes for those who want and can adapt to that, and try to fulfill at least the basic needs -- medical care, food, warmth -- to those others, in situ.

This is exactly how feral cat programs work. Homeless people, homeless animals. Same thing: homeless beings.

Yep, I am sure that many of you will say 'how can you compare cats to humans'?  Easily.  I have compassion for all sentient beings, particularly those with fewer choices.  I don't distinguish, except to note that animals have brought me far more happiness and far less hurt to my life.

In the words of a wise blogger: "Chickens are our cousins! So are fish! So are other sentient animals! Let us learn to be kind." [caniscandida]

This article is wack.  Aren't there greater things to be concerned about?  If there isn't then we're a sad and sorry people.  

There is nothing greater than paying attention to fundamentals, and responding to knowledge of the suffering of the vulnerable and the voiceless.

"Sad and sorry" applies to those who do not understand that.

"Saddest and sorriest" applies to those who understand it, but have chosen to set it aside.

By some synchronicity, all sorts of information about cats in trouble have come to me in the past couple of days, including Umbra's Q&A, and AMC's disturbing article from Ohio about the cat who got caught in a trap.  Also, I heard from a neighborhood group, called Neighborhood Cats in fact, from here in my zipcode on the UWS of NYC, soliciting funds for taking care of feral cats, especially their trap-neuter-release program.

The main lesson is: Cats, like all animals really, require work, intelligence and dedication, on the part of us, all of us, who have responsibility for their care.

We need intelligence, to discern what is best for feral cat colonies.  They most certainly do not deserve to be destroyed.  But I can understand the point of view of the writer from San Diego, CarrieSchneider: that colony definitely needs to be managed better, as do the defenders of the cats who have taken no thought for the terns.  Clearly that is a job for people such as Nancy Peterson.

And we need intelligence, to find ways to provide an interesting life for the cats that we wisely keep indoors with us.  Greta is clearly a model for the kind of dedication that our cats deserve.

Cats are ferals. That means that we humans bred them into existance and so we humans have the responsability to bred them out of existance if we are to truely see the damage that they have caused to all other small life forms of this world.
People who think the balance of life hangs on whether or not a bloody cat has political representation are merely self centered pissants too up themselves to be bothered looking at the extinction statistics that cats have a direct input to.
I for one cannot believe that people are so precious as to even care about the fate of cat, over and above the fate of the hundreds of differant species that have been wiped of the face of the earth since cats were bred as domesticated pets. They are miniture killing machines and they don't care. But we can and do care! Or don't you?
If you really cared about the enviroment you would do all you could to promote the cat fur industry, but no, so many of you actually write copy for the advertisers promoting the cat food industry. Jesus wept!

"Of course I grew up with feral farmhouse cats and just seeing them in their element I can say the difference with a kept or indoor cat is utterly overwhelming." -activist247365

I agree, there is a big difference. I also grew up around feral cats and thought it was fine... when I was a CHILD!

I haven't had cats for years, and when I did as an adult, I kept them indoors. What irritates me now, is seeing other people's cats on my property killing birds. At first I tried chasing them away when I saw them stalking, but they'd just go hide and come back later.

Then we got a dog. I've never seen a dog so eager to hunt cats. Of course, I tried to break her of this. Then I realized she's too old, slow, and - frankly - stupid to catch them. So, I let her follow her natural instincts (that's why the cats are killing birds, right?) and chase cats to her hearts content if they're on our property. Presto! No cats for months - and no dead birds.

I'm sure she might catch one, someday. But if the cat is too slow to get away from my non-fence climbing dog, it's not much of a cat anyway.

Today, I found a dead bird songbird.  Cat? Nope. K-Mart.  Found it lying in front of a big, shiny glass window.  [Would anyone else have picked it up and taken it home for burial?]

Hmmm.  Seems that recent years have produced a lot more shiny, glass surfaces -- especially in gigantic high-rise buildings.

Isn't it possible that these anthropogenic predators could be causing more bird deaths?  

Last time that I heard of a tall building having a predator was...well, 9/11.

First: Programs for feral cats bring the adults back to where they were caught after giving them vaccines and altering them.  That way cat lovers know the cats are okay and will assist in the trapping.  Eventually, this should cause the coloney to die out naturally.

Second:  Several humans in my state are currently being treated with anti rabies vaccines because of three rabid (outdoor) cats.

Third:  Having a cat that kills rodents is a good thing.  One doesn't want rodents in the house.  Cats in the house should mean the house is free of mice and squirrels.

Fourth:  Neighbor's outdoor cats make dreadful smells in one's flower beds besides being an extreme danger to pregnant women.

I keep my cat inside, but not because she would hunt. I wouldnt mind that. There are way too many invasive english sparrows hanging around the backyard feeder. They could use some major thinning out. It is a busy street and she is old and nearly died from being poisoned by tainted cat food. I recently read that someone in Texas is being prosecuted for shooting feral cats, but how do they know it wasnt someones pet? Don't declaw your pet it takes off the first finger joint it is really inhumane. Sorry if i am rambling

thanks Jamie

The only cats whose hunting behavior I have studied have been those owned as pets by my extended family. My family has had 23 pets cats over the past 45 years. Hunting in our pet cats has had nothing to do with hunger (prey have not been eaten). Hunting does not appear to be the norm for well cared for pet cats (only 5 out of 23 have been hunters). Although hunting is in the genes for pet cats, most cats fortunate enough to be pets do not appear to feel the need to hunt (perhaps because the cats are lazy and it is unnecessary exertion?). Those cats who have been hunters have always brought their prey to the door of their homes (gifts for owner? bringing home take-out?). No carcasses have been found elsewhere in the yards or neighboring yards. If you are home at the time, the cats will scratch on the door (or meow) with the live prey in their mouths. You can often get the cat to drop its prey without killing it and then haul the cat into the house (on occasion live prey have made it into the house). Otherwise, the prey are killed at the door and dropped there as soon as dead. Dropped prey who are gravely wounded do not fly or run away. Based on episodes of human assisted escape for run away prey (indoors and outdoors), I doubt the prey goes off to die (the escape assistance can take anywhere from 15 minutes to 1 hour during which time the escaping prey have exhibited quite athletic behavior). The family pet cats who have hunted have specialized. 1 hunting cat (Smokey) only went after chipmunks (and did not catch many and never killed any). 1 hunting cat (Barney) only killed rats (Norwegian roof type) in the house or garage (no outdoor rodents). 1 hunting cat (Ivy) only killed birds and only for 1 summer (the mockingbirds retaliated and attacked her so she quit and never killed again). 1 hunting cat (Squeaker) only kills salamanders and lizards. The last hunting cat (Sandy) is the most deadly of all 5. She is a hyperactive cat and it is impossible to keep her contained. She has captured a couple of dozen mice over the years but only killed about 5. She has captured and, sadly, most often killed, birds. During her most deadly year she killed about 40 birds but each year since, as she grows older, the number of birds caught and killed has dropped. Sandy is down to about 20 now. Initially she killed mourning doves. She then switched to sparrows. The past 2 years, she has been catching non-breeding male finches (based on my audobon western bird book). So I think the "studies" which claim pet cats each kill 37 birds per year is a gross over-estimate. Not many pet cats are like Sandy and 37 birds would be a peak year even for Sandy. I currently have another cat who has never killed anything at all (except for a catnip plant). IMHO, humans have caused many more species extinctions (including birds) than pet cats (who may not have caused any at all). I would be interested in seeing a well documented study on specific bird species that have been driven to extinction by pet cats - one that is based on observation and not speculation. Since pet and feral cats and their small feline ancestors have been around as long as humans, I very much doubt this recent allegation that cats are causing bird species extinction. It seems much more plausible to me that human activity (hunting, habitat destruction, pollution), not cat activity, has been causing bird species extinctions. My statement about humans and bird species is mostly speculation but I do know that in California the near extinction of the condors is well documented and human based.

On office buildings with reflective glass windows: For 2 years I had a small window office in such a building on the 4th floor. At least once per week, a bird would crash into my window and slide 4 stories down to the ground. The birds were dying, not flying away. The carcass of the song bird could be found at the base of the building if one went out and looked soon (outdoor building maintenance cleaned them up regularly). So my office window was killing about 50 birds a year and it was only one of about 1000 similar office windows in my building complex. That building complex killed more song birds in one year than the total number of birds, rodents, and lizards killed by 23 pet cats over a period of 45 years.

I have two indoor cats. I keep my cats indoors for their own safety and well-being. Indoor cats in general live longer healthier lives, so it makes sense to me to keep mine indoors. The younger cat does get bored at times. Letting him outside would be a solution to this, but I also find that playing with him works. I also take him on daily walks. We walk about one mile every evening and he loves this. I never really thought about the birds that I was preventing him from killing, but I am glad to know that he is not killing or injuring the wildlife.

I wonder how much the bird population is artificially boosted by people putting out bird feeders.  Cats (introduced by humans) are perhaps culling the "unnatural" surplus of birds produced by bird lovers putting out bird feeders. . . .

Bird feeders also attract bears and raccoons habituating them to humans, often leading to their death by animal control.

Let's not forget that cats are carnivores by biological necessity. Since we cat owners have chosen to care for one or more felines, it is our responsibility to make sure they are eating an optimal diet (raw whole "prey"). We can buy it for them in the market or our local farmer/butcher or we can let them hunt it outside - we have that choice. I believe that most cats that go outside hunt birds and small mammals because they are not getting true nutrition (and/or stimulation) at home!

~~I just signed up with this website. I don't know a darn thing about it.  Yet.  But I will, because it really intrigues me. I am a lunatic Progressive tree hugger and marcher-emeritus for various equality causes.  And mighty proud of it, I might add.
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Cats and birds, eh? I was brought up to believe that "An indoor cat is a safe cat" and other funky buttons/banners announcing this solemn fact.  I adore cats and do not like to see them wandering outside totally free and so unlike dogs which by law must be tethered or walked on a leash so they cannot go wherever they please.  Is this fair to dogs?  I think not.
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I volunteered for many years at our wonderful Humane Society shelter.  Too many kittens, too many feral cats, etc, ad infinitum.  A litter of day-old kittens came to the shelter in a baby blanket-filled box...their mother was just killed by a passing car after her guardian let Mom outside instead of having her go in a nice, safe litter box.  Inside.  The newborns were euthanized.  That really isn't very good.
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My cats don't know what grass under their feet feels like and I do not think their lives are diminished because of that little unknown pleasure they'll never experience!  How many exotic big cats in the wild have you seen going after a bird?  It probably isn't even natural for a big cat to stalk a bird for food...unless a big bird faints with fright upon seeing a gorgeous Bengal tiger leaping in its direction?
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This post is, I'm sure, wayyy too long. I'll give it a go anyway, see what happens.  I have a blogpage if anyone is interested. (am I allowed to pass that on?)-- meandthecat.com

If you want your cat to be a strictly indoor pet, you must accustom it to this lifestyle from an early age.  Trying to impose strict indoor confinement on an adult cat who already has a taste for the outdoors is much more difficult, and much less likely to succeed.
      My observations generally agree with cmello's.  Bird-catching seems to be a specialized skill, and not all cats have it.  I have read references, (mostly in old books), to people training their cats not to hunt birds.  I think it would be interesting to do more research on this, but I suspect that, as with keeping cats indoors, it is wise to begin at a young age.  

what about barn cats or farm cats?

I worked on a small, organic farm last year that had 5 cats.

we did nothing to prohibit our pets from going outside. All but one of the cats slept outside, the outdoor one being the "barn cat". He caught mice and rodents that would have otherwise destroyed our plants. He also patrolled our greenhouse during the early season and caught any mice that snuck in through the holes around the floor. (He was probably in the greenhouse for his own selfish heat seeking reasons, but it helped us too).

He was the only cat who hunted. We have free range chickens and had baby chicks all over the place, but never had a problem with them and the cats. We would have known, because the hunter always brought us his prey.

What I am getting at is that regardless of any philosophical ramblings of cat's true nature and hunter spirit (though humans originally lived in caves and hunted with handmade spears, but you don't see anyone following the logic that far) some outdoor cats are functional, just like some dogs are work dogs. Cats are the one domesticated animal perceived to be solely a pet, but that assumption is false.

And, yes, it would have been safer for our cats to stay indoors. The friendly one actually was killed by a larger animal. But when you live at your work and are bustling in and out of doors all day, it's hard to keep the cats anywhere. (It took us two hours to round them all up for a group trip to the vet.)

besides, not all cats who go outside like to hunt. Our older two just sunned themselves and smelled the flowers in our garden.

I'm pretty sure that all cats are instinctively hunters whether or not you put cloths on them and sing to them in the shower.  You may call your kitties your children but a heart they are all happiest when they bring home a dead animal for the pack to eat.

Why do we dote on pets and not lonely humans?
Humans talk. Sometimes I just want to hear a purr or a woof.

You say "I, too, am suspicious of the data attributing the decline of songbirds simply to cats. My empirical evidence has shown me otherwise. I have rarely seen even my ferals hunt. (If I do, I intervene.)  Moreover, they always return hungry.  So, they could not have been out filling up on birds."

What valid empirical evidence you gathered! It's like people arguing "How can there be global warming if it's cold?"
Also, cats don't always eat what they kill. Most times they just play with it.

For those who live in urban areas without the threat of predation to our cats, I suggest letting your kitties out at night and back in as soon as you get up in the morning. Then shut them in all day until you come home.  For those of us who get up with or shortly after the birds (and have teeny tiny houses), this works out well.
Nighttime outdoors has the following benefits:
-Enough outdoor playtime to satisfy stir crazy kitties (like mine)
-Hunting opportunities increased for nocturnal pests such as mice and rats, and virtually eliminated for birds
-Kitties thrilled to come in in the morning in anticipation of breakfast
-Less danger from roads (fewer cars out)

Drawbacks include:
-Difficult with snow, in rural areas and on very hot days with no a/c
-For folks who stay home all day, and have escape artists for pets, this can still be a problem
-Not foolproof, but then again nothing truly is.