<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Kick the Oil Habit]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by odograph http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/ Wed, 17 May 2006 10:19:50 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/1 question

for the experts:

isn't it better to run 5-10% ethanol everywhere, rathern than 85% ethanol (E85) in just a few places?

as i understand it, 5-10% ethanol works with current cars and gas stations (etc.)

as i understand it, 85% ethanol requires changes ($$$) to current cars and gas stations (etc.)

as i understand it, we only have enough ethanol to do 5-10% ethanol nationally (if that much), and not enough to expand 85% ethanol very far.

]]> question

for the experts:

isn't it better to run 5-10% ethanol everywhere, rathern than 85% ethanol (E85) in just a few places?

as i understand it, 5-10% ethanol works with current cars and gas stations (etc.)

as i understand it, 85% ethanol requires changes ($$$) to current cars and gas stations (etc.)

as i understand it, we only have enough ethanol to do 5-10% ethanol nationally (if that much), and not enough to expand 85% ethanol very far.

]]> Comment #2 by Bart Anderson http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/ Wed, 17 May 2006 10:44:16 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/2 Stick to your guns

>>DR: For my part, I think they rely a little to heavily on gas-price hysteria on the problem page and ethanol on the alternatives page,

Absolutely

>>DR: but then, I don't have millions of dollars to research and craft these things, so I should probably defer to their judgment.  

No, no need to defer to their judgment.  As an individual writer, you can ask the probing, difficult questions that they avoid.  What is the Energy Returned on Energy Invested of corn?  How sustainable is intense monocropping of biofuel crops?  Rather than subsidizing private vehicles through biofuels, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to reduce their use?  

"Kick the Oil Habit" is a good start, but I don't think we do the campaign any favor by avoiding rigorous debate.  We have a long way to go in our thinking about energy.

BTW, Daily Kos just published their latest draft of Energize America, "Achieving U.S. Energy Security by 2020."

]]> Stick to your guns

>>DR: For my part, I think they rely a little to heavily on gas-price hysteria on the problem page and ethanol on the alternatives page,

Absolutely

>>DR: but then, I don't have millions of dollars to research and craft these things, so I should probably defer to their judgment.  

No, no need to defer to their judgment.  As an individual writer, you can ask the probing, difficult questions that they avoid.  What is the Energy Returned on Energy Invested of corn?  How sustainable is intense monocropping of biofuel crops?  Rather than subsidizing private vehicles through biofuels, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to reduce their use?  

"Kick the Oil Habit" is a good start, but I don't think we do the campaign any favor by avoiding rigorous debate.  We have a long way to go in our thinking about energy.

BTW, Daily Kos just published their latest draft of Energize America, "Achieving U.S. Energy Security by 2020."

]]> Comment #3 by bookerly http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/ Wed, 17 May 2006 11:17:35 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/3 Just kicking oil isn't the point

   While there are many admirable features to this plan, I see no call for alternative means of transportation, or action to end massive sprawl.

   No funds for mass transit, no support of bicycling as a transportation means, no support for measures to promote eco-friendly urban housing initiatives.

   To be honest, I am worried about all these piecemeal measures.  

   And I hate it when they include "energy security" as one of the mainstays of the campaign.  This is not an environmental issue, and if they conflict, which would dominate?  Energy security, or green measures?

patrick

]]> Just kicking oil isn't the point

   While there are many admirable features to this plan, I see no call for alternative means of transportation, or action to end massive sprawl.

   No funds for mass transit, no support of bicycling as a transportation means, no support for measures to promote eco-friendly urban housing initiatives.

   To be honest, I am worried about all these piecemeal measures.  

   And I hate it when they include "energy security" as one of the mainstays of the campaign.  This is not an environmental issue, and if they conflict, which would dominate?  Energy security, or green measures?

patrick

]]> Comment #4 by Icelander http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/ Wed, 17 May 2006 23:22:03 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/4 Ethanol Promises

They are making ethanol (and hydrogen and hybrids) out to be the saviors Suburbia. "You can keep your McMansion and commute and supercenters if you drive this car SUV!"

What they neglect to mention is that if we raise CAFE standards by 1mpg, we free up as much oil as is in ANWR. If we raise it by 7.5mpg (to 35mpg), we can stop importing foreign oil. And if we all used less (walking, biking, carpooling, public transportation), gas prices would go down.

People are afraid of change. Given the option of a cheap, easy band-aid fix that doesn't make them work and a real change that might cause some pain, they'll take the former in a heartbeat, no matter what they say privately.

]]> Ethanol Promises

They are making ethanol (and hydrogen and hybrids) out to be the saviors Suburbia. "You can keep your McMansion and commute and supercenters if you drive this car SUV!"

What they neglect to mention is that if we raise CAFE standards by 1mpg, we free up as much oil as is in ANWR. If we raise it by 7.5mpg (to 35mpg), we can stop importing foreign oil. And if we all used less (walking, biking, carpooling, public transportation), gas prices would go down.

People are afraid of change. Given the option of a cheap, easy band-aid fix that doesn't make them work and a real change that might cause some pain, they'll take the former in a heartbeat, no matter what they say privately.

]]> Comment #5 by Icelander http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/ Wed, 17 May 2006 23:25:43 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/5 One more thing

On the banner graphic at the top of the page, they have an SUV burning gasoline and a Prius burning E85, but the Prius can't do it.

And if I read anymore of that buzzword-riddled text, I'm going to scream.

]]> One more thing

On the banner graphic at the top of the page, they have an SUV burning gasoline and a Prius burning E85, but the Prius can't do it.

And if I read anymore of that buzzword-riddled text, I'm going to scream.

]]> Comment #6 by kmp http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/ Thu, 18 May 2006 04:29:46 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/6 Texas

Slightly off topic, I realize, but did anyone see this on Monday? (Maybe it's here somewhere and I missed it...)

Speed limits would increase to 80 mph on two West Texas interstate highways under a proposal by the Texas Department of Transportation. The Texas Transportation Commission could take up the proposed change, which would apply to Interstate 10 and Interstate 20 in West Texas, when it meets in Austin next week.

Some advocates for fuel conservation and safety have questioned the wisdom of boosting speed limits, but transportation officials said most drivers are already cruising at nearly 80 mph.

Is it just me, or is it simply block-headed to be thinking of raising speed limits now?  Although I do love the DOT's sophomoric justification "but everybody's already driving that fast."

Ay carumba.

]]> Texas

Slightly off topic, I realize, but did anyone see this on Monday? (Maybe it's here somewhere and I missed it...)

Speed limits would increase to 80 mph on two West Texas interstate highways under a proposal by the Texas Department of Transportation. The Texas Transportation Commission could take up the proposed change, which would apply to Interstate 10 and Interstate 20 in West Texas, when it meets in Austin next week.

Some advocates for fuel conservation and safety have questioned the wisdom of boosting speed limits, but transportation officials said most drivers are already cruising at nearly 80 mph.

Is it just me, or is it simply block-headed to be thinking of raising speed limits now?  Although I do love the DOT's sophomoric justification "but everybody's already driving that fast."

Ay carumba.

]]> Comment #7 by odograph http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/ Thu, 18 May 2006 08:55:54 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/7 e85 prius

i think i've heard of a couple e85 prius projects.  one did it the right way (replacing hoses and gaskets with materials approved for e85) and one just went for it.  i guess the second one treated the prius as disposable for their test.

of course, i don't recommend anyone do that at all.

it sounds like just the thing to mess up your prius in some weird way (maybe even injuring you or others).

FWIW, here are the 'go for it' guys:

http://www.creedproject.org/e85%20hybrid%20report.doc

]]> e85 prius

i think i've heard of a couple e85 prius projects.  one did it the right way (replacing hoses and gaskets with materials approved for e85) and one just went for it.  i guess the second one treated the prius as disposable for their test.

of course, i don't recommend anyone do that at all.

it sounds like just the thing to mess up your prius in some weird way (maybe even injuring you or others).

FWIW, here are the 'go for it' guys:

http://www.creedproject.org/e85%20hybrid%20report.doc

]]> Comment #8 by wendy http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/ Wed, 24 May 2006 21:34:23 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/kick-the-oil-habit/8 energy cost of producing ethanol

To grow, harvest, transport and turn into ethanol:
Corn uses 29% more fossil energy than it produces
Switch grass  "   45%  "
Wood biomass  "   57%  "

For production of biodiesel:
Soybeans      "    27%  "
Sunflowers    "   118%  "

This info from a study by Pimental of Cornell Univ, see http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/July05/ethanol.toocostly.ssl.html
 






]]> energy cost of producing ethanol

To grow, harvest, transport and turn into ethanol:
Corn uses 29% more fossil energy than it produces
Switch grass  "   45%  "
Wood biomass  "   57%  "

For production of biodiesel:
Soybeans      "    27%  "
Sunflowers    "   118%  "

This info from a study by Pimental of Cornell Univ, see http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/July05/ethanol.toocostly.ssl.html
 






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