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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Civil-rights, suffrage activists didn&#8217;t give up, and neither should environmentalists&nbsp;]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by bongo</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/kaplan/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 05 Apr 2005 02:55:09 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/kaplan/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Dead movements.</strong></p><p>When I was in college in the 80's everyone was talking about how the student movement was dead. &nbsp;I think some of them wished it was dead and worked to convince us students that it was. &nbsp;Maybe Shellenberger et al are just wishing to convince us to stop working for the environment and give up. As Noam Chomsky would say, they are manufacturing consent.</p>
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				<p><strong>Dead movements.</strong></p><p>When I was in college in the 80's everyone was talking about how the student movement was dead. &nbsp;I think some of them wished it was dead and worked to convince us students that it was. &nbsp;Maybe Shellenberger et al are just wishing to convince us to stop working for the environment and give up. As Noam Chomsky would say, they are manufacturing consent.</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by banquogirl</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/kaplan/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2005 04:48:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/kaplan/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Why fear self examination?</strong></p><p>If we environmentalists are so sure we're right, then what's so scary about a few soul searching questions? Where are we, as a movement, when the head of Greenpeace, an organization that regularly chases down whalers with megaphones, calls a civilized report "in your face" and "over the top" ? And the author of "Die Another Day" clearly doesn't understand the history of abolitionism, suffrage, civil rights or even temperence as opposed to modern environmentalism. &nbsp;Those earlier movements unabashedly drew the strength of their arguements from moral values. &nbsp;Modern environmentalists and progressives, while certain that they have moral values that are radically different from those of the right, consistently flee from expressing them. &nbsp;That's a big part of why I and many others voted against Al Gore (for Nader) in 2000. Because he, or his wonks, fled screaming from taking a moral stand on progressive issues.</p>
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				<p><strong>Why fear self examination?</strong></p><p>If we environmentalists are so sure we're right, then what's so scary about a few soul searching questions? Where are we, as a movement, when the head of Greenpeace, an organization that regularly chases down whalers with megaphones, calls a civilized report "in your face" and "over the top" ? And the author of "Die Another Day" clearly doesn't understand the history of abolitionism, suffrage, civil rights or even temperence as opposed to modern environmentalism. &nbsp;Those earlier movements unabashedly drew the strength of their arguements from moral values. &nbsp;Modern environmentalists and progressives, while certain that they have moral values that are radically different from those of the right, consistently flee from expressing them. &nbsp;That's a big part of why I and many others voted against Al Gore (for Nader) in 2000. Because he, or his wonks, fled screaming from taking a moral stand on progressive issues.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Caleb Ewing</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/kaplan/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2005 08:25:12 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/kaplan/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Winners Never Quit</strong></p><p>Despite Martin Kaplan's fulsome objection (in Winners Never Quit) to holding our environmental leaders and strategies accountable for the disastrous outcome on ANWR, I see in the ANWR defeat convincing proof that a major over-haul is desperately needed. Had the Sierra Club and Carl Pope (for instance) resisted the safe path of `environmental niche framing` back in 2003, and instead sought to rally the SC in opposition to the Bush legend of patriotism and homeland-insecurity, today's landscape and tomorrows ANWR could probably look a whole lot different. I really believe this. What Pope DID do in 2003, at the time of pivotal crisis - instead of engaging at the level of our underlying our cultural pathology - was assign his energy and column inches to the problem of soil contamination on US military bases. This to me constituted a total failure of leadership, the latest victim of which is now ANWR. Very sorry you didn't see this coming. &nbsp;If the defeat in ANWR becomes the referendum on leadership and strategy I think it should, Pope should go, and Kaplan along with him. And as for Kaplan's `tipping point paradigm', it's absurd to suggest that environmentalism is in the middle of an effective long-term campaign. If anything, we are the one's who have been `tipped'. </p>
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				<p><strong>Winners Never Quit</strong></p><p>Despite Martin Kaplan's fulsome objection (in Winners Never Quit) to holding our environmental leaders and strategies accountable for the disastrous outcome on ANWR, I see in the ANWR defeat convincing proof that a major over-haul is desperately needed. Had the Sierra Club and Carl Pope (for instance) resisted the safe path of `environmental niche framing` back in 2003, and instead sought to rally the SC in opposition to the Bush legend of patriotism and homeland-insecurity, today's landscape and tomorrows ANWR could probably look a whole lot different. I really believe this. What Pope DID do in 2003, at the time of pivotal crisis - instead of engaging at the level of our underlying our cultural pathology - was assign his energy and column inches to the problem of soil contamination on US military bases. This to me constituted a total failure of leadership, the latest victim of which is now ANWR. Very sorry you didn't see this coming. &nbsp;If the defeat in ANWR becomes the referendum on leadership and strategy I think it should, Pope should go, and Kaplan along with him. And as for Kaplan's `tipping point paradigm', it's absurd to suggest that environmentalism is in the middle of an effective long-term campaign. If anything, we are the one's who have been `tipped'. </p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by rmwebb</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/kaplan/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2005 23:42:21 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/kaplan/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>whats wrong with critisism</strong></p><p>I am wondering why so many people are afraid/angered by this essay. &nbsp;What does that say about us if we as a group cannot withstand a little constructive criticism? &nbsp;Personally I think they are right. &nbsp;Environmentalism should not be just one issue. &nbsp;I am tired of being told I care about the owls and the trees and not people. &nbsp;I care about the environment because I want to have a safe and health place to live for my family, and every other living creature. &nbsp;Why do people who care about the environment need to be left wing Democrats? &nbsp;But the way the issues are currently being framed it comes out, as a liberal issue and not an issue the general public will stand behind. &nbsp;It is time to start reexamining who we are and how we are going to get the job done. &nbsp;What is that saying "politics makes strange bedfellows"? &nbsp; It is time to start building coalitions not burning them. &nbsp;<br>
So my advice, keep an open mind....read the essay for what it is - constructive criticism, &nbsp;and use it as a tool, not a mission statement, to take environmentalism to the next step.<br>
</br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>whats wrong with critisism</strong></p><p>I am wondering why so many people are afraid/angered by this essay. &nbsp;What does that say about us if we as a group cannot withstand a little constructive criticism? &nbsp;Personally I think they are right. &nbsp;Environmentalism should not be just one issue. &nbsp;I am tired of being told I care about the owls and the trees and not people. &nbsp;I care about the environment because I want to have a safe and health place to live for my family, and every other living creature. &nbsp;Why do people who care about the environment need to be left wing Democrats? &nbsp;But the way the issues are currently being framed it comes out, as a liberal issue and not an issue the general public will stand behind. &nbsp;It is time to start reexamining who we are and how we are going to get the job done. &nbsp;What is that saying "politics makes strange bedfellows"? &nbsp; It is time to start building coalitions not burning them. &nbsp;<br>
So my advice, keep an open mind....read the essay for what it is - constructive criticism, &nbsp;and use it as a tool, not a mission statement, to take environmentalism to the next step.<br>
</br></br></p>
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