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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Lieberman-Warner climate bill hitting the Senate floor]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by dankd</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/just-around-the-warner/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 05:52:43 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Thanks!</strong></p><p>Thanks so much for this analysis. &nbsp; I read the bill this morning, and certainly didn't figure out the numbers for the tax relief and the rural cooperatives. &nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>
Two questions:<br>
*Did I miss something, or is there really nothing in the way of "border adjustments?" &nbsp;Shouldn't the EPA be estimating the carbon emissions associated with imported manufactured items and requiring a carbon allowance from the importer, unless the manufacturing country has it's own carbon market? &nbsp;</p><p>
*Again, did I miss something, or are natural gas producers outside of Alaska really exempted from getting allowances? &nbsp;</p><p>
Thanks again, </p><p>
Dan</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Thanks!</strong></p><p>Thanks so much for this analysis. &nbsp; I read the bill this morning, and certainly didn't figure out the numbers for the tax relief and the rural cooperatives. &nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>
Two questions:<br>
*Did I miss something, or is there really nothing in the way of "border adjustments?" &nbsp;Shouldn't the EPA be estimating the carbon emissions associated with imported manufactured items and requiring a carbon allowance from the importer, unless the manufacturing country has it's own carbon market? &nbsp;</p><p>
*Again, did I miss something, or are natural gas producers outside of Alaska really exempted from getting allowances? &nbsp;</p><p>
Thanks again, </p><p>
Dan</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/just-around-the-warner/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 08:03:14 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/just-around-the-warner/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Why This Won't Work</strong></p><p>This is another good example of why people must greatly reduce their consumption in order to solve these types of problems. &nbsp;We don't get any reductions till 2020 and no caps till 2012? &nbsp;When the scientific consensus is that we're either beyond or almost at the breaking point right now? &nbsp;Add to that the fact that the reductions are insufficient and it's clear that effective remedial legislation for ecological and environmental problems can only be sufficient where people are willing to sacrifice something. &nbsp;But hey folks, it's not really that much of a sacrifice, because it's things people shouldn't have in the first place and didn't used to until very recently.</p>
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				<p><strong>Why This Won't Work</strong></p><p>This is another good example of why people must greatly reduce their consumption in order to solve these types of problems. &nbsp;We don't get any reductions till 2020 and no caps till 2012? &nbsp;When the scientific consensus is that we're either beyond or almost at the breaking point right now? &nbsp;Add to that the fact that the reductions are insufficient and it's clear that effective remedial legislation for ecological and environmental problems can only be sufficient where people are willing to sacrifice something. &nbsp;But hey folks, it's not really that much of a sacrifice, because it's things people shouldn't have in the first place and didn't used to until very recently.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/just-around-the-warner/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 00:50:38 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/just-around-the-warner/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Regressive Taxation</strong></p><p><br>
All "climate change" legislation is a form of regressive taxation. &nbsp; The problem for the upper tier is that the stock market, real estate and soon commodities are failing to bring in the needed excess wealth to support their lifestyles. &nbsp; Therefore, they must "invent need" with a fictitious bogeyman such as CO2. &nbsp; &nbsp;This allows a big burden of tax to be spread across the middle class and lets Obama-Clinton deliver pork to their backers and hangers on.<br>


<p>I'll throw away a chance at
greatness just to make this
dream come into play. -- M. Sweet</p></br></br></p>
			]]></description>
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				<p><strong>Regressive Taxation</strong></p><p><br>
All "climate change" legislation is a form of regressive taxation. &nbsp; The problem for the upper tier is that the stock market, real estate and soon commodities are failing to bring in the needed excess wealth to support their lifestyles. &nbsp; Therefore, they must "invent need" with a fictitious bogeyman such as CO2. &nbsp; &nbsp;This allows a big burden of tax to be spread across the middle class and lets Obama-Clinton deliver pork to their backers and hangers on.<br>


<p>I'll throw away a chance at
greatness just to make this
dream come into play. -- M. Sweet</p></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by F James Handley</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/just-around-the-warner/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:19:54 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/just-around-the-warner/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Next time try a Carbon Tax with Dividend<p>The Lieberman-Warner bill is fatally flawed in at least four ways:<p>


Gives away more than half the permits to polluters. &nbsp;<p>
Distributes revenues from permit auctions to powerful special interests. &nbsp;(Coal, nuclear, biofuels...) <p>
Does not distribute revenue to taxpayers as a dividend. &nbsp;(Sen. Corker (R-Tenn) has offered an amendment along those lines.)<p>
Creates incentives for cheating and manipulation on a vast scale with no credible monitioring and enforcement system. &nbsp;<p>
Does not contain an adequate saftey valve, so price spikes are likely to crash the system and engender public outrage as energy prices become more volatile. &nbsp;<p>


Fortunately, this trial balloon is so freighted that it surely will crash before enactment.<p>
Next time, try a Revenue-Neutral Carbon Tax with Dividend. &nbsp;See <a href="http://www.carbontax.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.carbontax.org.<br>
&nbsp;</br></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Next time try a Carbon Tax with Dividend<p>The Lieberman-Warner bill is fatally flawed in at least four ways:<p>


Gives away more than half the permits to polluters. &nbsp;<p>
Distributes revenues from permit auctions to powerful special interests. &nbsp;(Coal, nuclear, biofuels...) <p>
Does not distribute revenue to taxpayers as a dividend. &nbsp;(Sen. Corker (R-Tenn) has offered an amendment along those lines.)<p>
Creates incentives for cheating and manipulation on a vast scale with no credible monitioring and enforcement system. &nbsp;<p>
Does not contain an adequate saftey valve, so price spikes are likely to crash the system and engender public outrage as energy prices become more volatile. &nbsp;<p>


Fortunately, this trial balloon is so freighted that it surely will crash before enactment.<p>
Next time, try a Revenue-Neutral Carbon Tax with Dividend. &nbsp;See <a href="http://www.carbontax.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.carbontax.org.<br>
&nbsp;</br></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by TekZaLim</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/just-around-the-warner/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 08:41:52 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/just-around-the-warner/5</guid>
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            <title>Comment #6 by TekZaLim</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/just-around-the-warner/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 08:45:01 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/just-around-the-warner/6</guid>
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