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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Why gutting commodity subsidies should be the focus of Farm Bill reform efforts]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Tom Philpott</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/its-economics-not-agronomy/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:38:51 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/its-economics-not-agronomy/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Asset inertia<p>Tom,<br>
I agree that economics are key; a headline writer came up with the jokey title "it's the agronomy, stupid," which I went along with; but yes, it is indeed the &nbsp;economics. <p>
We also agree on the following:<br>
&lt;blockqoute&gt;Restoring more ecologically diverse and sustainable crop and livestock systems will not be easy or quick. It will take more than eliminating commodity subsidies. A much stronger and better-funded set of agri-environmental programs emphasizing agriculture's "multifunctionality" also is needed.&lt;/blockqoute&gt<p>
However,Lugar's Fresh Act, mentioned respectfully by Pollan and promoted vigorously by Britt Lundgren, doesn't provide nearly the "much stronger and better-funded set of agri-environmental programs" needed to actually curb overproduction. <p>
And surely, the Bush administration's vision of gutting the commodity title to make US agriculture WTO-friendly doesn't meet your test, either. <p>
The fundamental problem is this: Billions have been invested in grain elevators, combines, and other equipment designed to grow and move million billions of bushels of corn and soy; and hundreds of thousands of families have been evicted from the land to accommodate those crops.<p>
The grain belt has been carefully crafted into a corn, soy, CAFO, and now ethanol machine. If it's going to be restored to the grand biodiversity it once knew, if its soil is going to be valued as the key resource it is -- and not just as a neutral conduit for agrochemicals -- then somebody is going to have to invest in a whole new infrastructure. <p>
And as you well know from living in South Dakota, the farmers now scraping by on those 1000-5000-acre corn and soy farms average nearly 60 years of age. They aren't about ready to &nbsp;start doing 20 acres in mixed vegetables, 3-4 hundred in pastured meat, another hundred in orchards--and then figure out how to get all of that stuff to market -- all while paying off the the note on the combine, which is now gathering dust. <p>
I don't think I'm being too cynical when I say that under current conditions, if and when the commodity title gets gutted, most of the savings will evaporate forever out of the Farm Bill, and go instead to paying off government debt. <p>
And then neoliberal fantasies about how farming is just another industry that can and should make it on its own in a "free" (though absurdly consolidated) market will get a full test. And then we'll be back to cycles of overproduction, soil mining, etc.--the same conditions that got us a farm bill in the first place. 

<p><a href="http://grist.org/cgi-bin/search.pl?gristcat=Victual%20Reality&amp;sort=gristdate&amp;reverse=on&amp;archives=yes" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></br></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Asset inertia<p>Tom,<br>
I agree that economics are key; a headline writer came up with the jokey title "it's the agronomy, stupid," which I went along with; but yes, it is indeed the &nbsp;economics. <p>
We also agree on the following:<br>
&lt;blockqoute&gt;Restoring more ecologically diverse and sustainable crop and livestock systems will not be easy or quick. It will take more than eliminating commodity subsidies. A much stronger and better-funded set of agri-environmental programs emphasizing agriculture's "multifunctionality" also is needed.&lt;/blockqoute&gt<p>
However,Lugar's Fresh Act, mentioned respectfully by Pollan and promoted vigorously by Britt Lundgren, doesn't provide nearly the "much stronger and better-funded set of agri-environmental programs" needed to actually curb overproduction. <p>
And surely, the Bush administration's vision of gutting the commodity title to make US agriculture WTO-friendly doesn't meet your test, either. <p>
The fundamental problem is this: Billions have been invested in grain elevators, combines, and other equipment designed to grow and move million billions of bushels of corn and soy; and hundreds of thousands of families have been evicted from the land to accommodate those crops.<p>
The grain belt has been carefully crafted into a corn, soy, CAFO, and now ethanol machine. If it's going to be restored to the grand biodiversity it once knew, if its soil is going to be valued as the key resource it is -- and not just as a neutral conduit for agrochemicals -- then somebody is going to have to invest in a whole new infrastructure. <p>
And as you well know from living in South Dakota, the farmers now scraping by on those 1000-5000-acre corn and soy farms average nearly 60 years of age. They aren't about ready to &nbsp;start doing 20 acres in mixed vegetables, 3-4 hundred in pastured meat, another hundred in orchards--and then figure out how to get all of that stuff to market -- all while paying off the the note on the combine, which is now gathering dust. <p>
I don't think I'm being too cynical when I say that under current conditions, if and when the commodity title gets gutted, most of the savings will evaporate forever out of the Farm Bill, and go instead to paying off government debt. <p>
And then neoliberal fantasies about how farming is just another industry that can and should make it on its own in a "free" (though absurdly consolidated) market will get a full test. And then we'll be back to cycles of overproduction, soil mining, etc.--the same conditions that got us a farm bill in the first place. 

<p><a href="http://grist.org/cgi-bin/search.pl?gristcat=Victual%20Reality&amp;sort=gristdate&amp;reverse=on&amp;archives=yes" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></br></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Thomas Dobbs</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/its-economics-not-agronomy/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 01:58:39 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/its-economics-not-agronomy/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Farm program commodity subsidies</strong></p><p>Tom,</p><p>
The structural challenges of transitioning out of our current narrow and industrialized farming systems are, indeed, formidable. I wrote two SDSU Economics Commentator articles earlier this year that outline my own policy recommendations for facilitating this transition process (see "Competing Vistion of US Agriculture" and "Time for Change in US Farm Policy", listed in my section of the Food &amp; Society Policy Fellows website). There is no question that it would be best to gradually shift (say, over a 10-year period) most or all of the 'commodity title' funds to agri-environmental, rural development, and healthy food programs. But we have seen repeatedly that the the Congressional 'farm block' refuses to do this. So, the political question is: "Do we just continue with business as usual, one farm bill after another? Or will it eventually take citizen shock and revolt at the environmental and human health consequences of the status quo to finally just flat-out terminate the commodity subsidies?" If and when the latter happens, unfortunately, the shifting of funds to worthy food and agricultural policy purposes may not happen. Your concern is well-founded. But I and many others are running out of patience with the absolute refusal of the farm block to accomodate a transition to a set of policies that really serve the national interest.</p><p>
Thomas Dobbs

<p>Thomas L. Dobbs
Professor Emeritus of Economics, South Dakota State University, and W.K. Kellogg Foundation Food &amp; Society Policy Fellow

</p></p>
			]]></description>
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				<p><strong>Farm program commodity subsidies</strong></p><p>Tom,</p><p>
The structural challenges of transitioning out of our current narrow and industrialized farming systems are, indeed, formidable. I wrote two SDSU Economics Commentator articles earlier this year that outline my own policy recommendations for facilitating this transition process (see "Competing Vistion of US Agriculture" and "Time for Change in US Farm Policy", listed in my section of the Food &amp; Society Policy Fellows website). There is no question that it would be best to gradually shift (say, over a 10-year period) most or all of the 'commodity title' funds to agri-environmental, rural development, and healthy food programs. But we have seen repeatedly that the the Congressional 'farm block' refuses to do this. So, the political question is: "Do we just continue with business as usual, one farm bill after another? Or will it eventually take citizen shock and revolt at the environmental and human health consequences of the status quo to finally just flat-out terminate the commodity subsidies?" If and when the latter happens, unfortunately, the shifting of funds to worthy food and agricultural policy purposes may not happen. Your concern is well-founded. But I and many others are running out of patience with the absolute refusal of the farm block to accomodate a transition to a set of policies that really serve the national interest.</p><p>
Thomas Dobbs

<p>Thomas L. Dobbs
Professor Emeritus of Economics, South Dakota State University, and W.K. Kellogg Foundation Food &amp; Society Policy Fellow

</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by jarmadi</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/its-economics-not-agronomy/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 03:11:37 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/its-economics-not-agronomy/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Invasion of the Agricons</strong></p><p>OK.....I get it. &nbsp;If we destroy subsidies and price supports, and maximise risks for farmers we will admittedly be blowing up farming, but we will have hopes that our present farming will be supplanted by a new farming that will more meet the approval of some of us. &nbsp;Changes might occur that would end global warming and most other environmental degradations and end childhood obesity and diabetes. &nbsp;No more pesticides, no more chemical fertilizers, no more produce shipped in from California, Florida, or Texas. &nbsp;Healthy, good tasting food for healthy, happy people. &nbsp;Healthy farm towns and healthy happy farm families. &nbsp;And everyone will learn to love us and will learn to love Israel and Islam will be transformed into a religion of tolerance and peace and individual liberty. Ooops, that last part belongs to another fantasy.</p><p>
Have I heard arguments like this before.....uh......yes, I think it was before the neocons invaded Iraq. &nbsp; This article favors laying waste to farmers and farm families and farm towns and farm banks and schools and culture. &nbsp;But who knows....."maybe what arises in it's place will be better."</p><p>
I think what really is in need of an infusion of risk is the teaching of economics. &nbsp;With all of our national and global economic problems, why are there still so many lame economic spokesmen, pundits, and professors. &nbsp;How come the neocons and the neoliberals still contend for the most inaccurate predictors of all time? &nbsp;Why hasn't Supply Side Economics been permanently &nbsp;lain to rest? &nbsp;Has academic tenure in cozy university jobs led to a stagnation of economic thought and creativity? &nbsp;Is there not grounds for hope that if we fire them all, that possibly much better economists might arise and supplant them. &nbsp;And we would never again have to endure the economic theories of social darwinist hollywood hack script writers. &nbsp;We can only hope......</p>
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				<p><strong>Invasion of the Agricons</strong></p><p>OK.....I get it. &nbsp;If we destroy subsidies and price supports, and maximise risks for farmers we will admittedly be blowing up farming, but we will have hopes that our present farming will be supplanted by a new farming that will more meet the approval of some of us. &nbsp;Changes might occur that would end global warming and most other environmental degradations and end childhood obesity and diabetes. &nbsp;No more pesticides, no more chemical fertilizers, no more produce shipped in from California, Florida, or Texas. &nbsp;Healthy, good tasting food for healthy, happy people. &nbsp;Healthy farm towns and healthy happy farm families. &nbsp;And everyone will learn to love us and will learn to love Israel and Islam will be transformed into a religion of tolerance and peace and individual liberty. Ooops, that last part belongs to another fantasy.</p><p>
Have I heard arguments like this before.....uh......yes, I think it was before the neocons invaded Iraq. &nbsp; This article favors laying waste to farmers and farm families and farm towns and farm banks and schools and culture. &nbsp;But who knows....."maybe what arises in it's place will be better."</p><p>
I think what really is in need of an infusion of risk is the teaching of economics. &nbsp;With all of our national and global economic problems, why are there still so many lame economic spokesmen, pundits, and professors. &nbsp;How come the neocons and the neoliberals still contend for the most inaccurate predictors of all time? &nbsp;Why hasn't Supply Side Economics been permanently &nbsp;lain to rest? &nbsp;Has academic tenure in cozy university jobs led to a stagnation of economic thought and creativity? &nbsp;Is there not grounds for hope that if we fire them all, that possibly much better economists might arise and supplant them. &nbsp;And we would never again have to endure the economic theories of social darwinist hollywood hack script writers. &nbsp;We can only hope......</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Thomas Dobbs</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/its-economics-not-agronomy/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 01:41:24 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/its-economics-not-agronomy/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Neocons and supply siders</strong></p><p>I'm not going to dignify this comment with a response. There is plenty of room for healthy debate on U.S. farm and food policy. However, when a comment such as this associates me with 'neocons' who advocated invasion of Iraq and with 'supply side' economists, there is not much room for dialogue. Anyone who knows my political and economic views knows how absurd such an association is. Have a nice day ...

<p>Thomas L. Dobbs
Professor Emeritus of Economics, South Dakota State University, and W.K. Kellogg Foundation Food &amp; Society Policy Fellow

</p></p>
			]]></description>
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				<p><strong>Neocons and supply siders</strong></p><p>I'm not going to dignify this comment with a response. There is plenty of room for healthy debate on U.S. farm and food policy. However, when a comment such as this associates me with 'neocons' who advocated invasion of Iraq and with 'supply side' economists, there is not much room for dialogue. Anyone who knows my political and economic views knows how absurd such an association is. Have a nice day ...

<p>Thomas L. Dobbs
Professor Emeritus of Economics, South Dakota State University, and W.K. Kellogg Foundation Food &amp; Society Policy Fellow

</p></p>
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