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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Very interesting]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by naturescene</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 02:47:04 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>yeah</strong></p><p>I'd be for a carbon tax if it replaced income or property taxes, preferrably both.</p>
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				<p><strong>yeah</strong></p><p>I'd be for a carbon tax if it replaced income or property taxes, preferrably both.</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 03:06:10 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Well thats the catch</strong></p><p>Whatever tax your "remove" is still going to need to be paid for.</p><p>
So unless you make the carbon tax higher than the previous tax, then there won't be enough money left to pay for dealing with climate stuff.</p><p>
That said, this might merely be a solution to get around Jevon's paradox. &nbsp;i.e. Where it doesn't matter where the money goes, just so long as the commodity price goes up to prevent using too much "Fuel".</p><p>
Jevon's paradox for instance, is that you open up more lanes on a freeway to reduce congestion. &nbsp;Only to find that more people take advantage of the freeway, and you once again have congestion.</p><p>
In that same way. &nbsp;If oil suddenly became cheap on a per mile basis because our cars got 1000mpg. &nbsp;Then we would end up using more Oil than we did previously. &nbsp;Unless of course there was added incentive to conserve the fuel.</p>
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				<p><strong>Well thats the catch</strong></p><p>Whatever tax your "remove" is still going to need to be paid for.</p><p>
So unless you make the carbon tax higher than the previous tax, then there won't be enough money left to pay for dealing with climate stuff.</p><p>
That said, this might merely be a solution to get around Jevon's paradox. &nbsp;i.e. Where it doesn't matter where the money goes, just so long as the commodity price goes up to prevent using too much "Fuel".</p><p>
Jevon's paradox for instance, is that you open up more lanes on a freeway to reduce congestion. &nbsp;Only to find that more people take advantage of the freeway, and you once again have congestion.</p><p>
In that same way. &nbsp;If oil suddenly became cheap on a per mile basis because our cars got 1000mpg. &nbsp;Then we would end up using more Oil than we did previously. &nbsp;Unless of course there was added incentive to conserve the fuel.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by GRLCowan</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 03:40:28 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>The them-as-has-GETS tax, eh?<p>No comment.<p>
--- G. R. L. Cowan, former hydrogen-energy fan<br>
Oxygen expands around boron fire, car goes --<br>
<a href="http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/boron_blast.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/boron_blast.html</a></br></br></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>The them-as-has-GETS tax, eh?<p>No comment.<p>
--- G. R. L. Cowan, former hydrogen-energy fan<br>
Oxygen expands around boron fire, car goes --<br>
<a href="http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/boron_blast.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/boron_blast.html</a></br></br></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by DogsCatsAndStrays</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 04:59:48 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>I do not see tax relief in this</strong></p><p>proposal. &nbsp;I would expect this tax to start out in the house sub-committee as revenue neutral, but end up to a real burden on the middle class. &nbsp; I have a very hard time seeing how this could be passed in congress. &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>I do not see tax relief in this</strong></p><p>proposal. &nbsp;I would expect this tax to start out in the house sub-committee as revenue neutral, but end up to a real burden on the middle class. &nbsp; I have a very hard time seeing how this could be passed in congress. &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by ac5p</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:03:58 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>I like this idea</strong></p><p>People who pollute less than the average amount of carbon will get money back, people that use more will pay more. &nbsp;Businesses will have incentives to use less carbon. &nbsp;Carbon-Free energy will become more competitive. &nbsp;Why set up a cap and trade system that can be manipulated (see Europe). &nbsp;Car efficiency standards are indirect and target only a subsection of our economy. &nbsp;With the tax, the incentives to buy fuel efficient cars will increase. &nbsp;I'm surprised that he forsaw such results with such a small change at the pump ($.13)</p>
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				<p><strong>I like this idea</strong></p><p>People who pollute less than the average amount of carbon will get money back, people that use more will pay more. &nbsp;Businesses will have incentives to use less carbon. &nbsp;Carbon-Free energy will become more competitive. &nbsp;Why set up a cap and trade system that can be manipulated (see Europe). &nbsp;Car efficiency standards are indirect and target only a subsection of our economy. &nbsp;With the tax, the incentives to buy fuel efficient cars will increase. &nbsp;I'm surprised that he forsaw such results with such a small change at the pump ($.13)</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:06:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Well</strong></p><p>Assuming it is merely to get around Jevon's paradox, this is actually a pretty worthwhile proposal.</p><p>
Who this primarily hurts are people who don't get a majoriety of their money from payroll. &nbsp;(i.e. Stocks and Bonds)</p>
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				<p><strong>Well</strong></p><p>Assuming it is merely to get around Jevon's paradox, this is actually a pretty worthwhile proposal.</p><p>
Who this primarily hurts are people who don't get a majoriety of their money from payroll. &nbsp;(i.e. Stocks and Bonds)</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:09:15 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Ah yeah</strong></p><p>And assuming they could get it passed</p><p>
Racheting up the cost of carbon wouldn't be such a political football in the future</p><p>
Since if everyone is minimizing their carbon output, that means that eventually whatever payroll tax does pay for now, the carbon tax will need to be increased to cover it.</p>
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				<p><strong>Ah yeah</strong></p><p>And assuming they could get it passed</p><p>
Racheting up the cost of carbon wouldn't be such a political football in the future</p><p>
Since if everyone is minimizing their carbon output, that means that eventually whatever payroll tax does pay for now, the carbon tax will need to be increased to cover it.</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:17:24 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>If global oil supply starts to decline...</strong></p><p>...and gasoline prices go way up, revenues from the carbon tax will go way down, and lawmakers will be in the unenviable position of raising income taxes, so it sounds like a recipe for crippling the Federal government.</p>
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				<p><strong>If global oil supply starts to decline...</strong></p><p>...and gasoline prices go way up, revenues from the carbon tax will go way down, and lawmakers will be in the unenviable position of raising income taxes, so it sounds like a recipe for crippling the Federal government.</p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by JMG</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 01:15:01 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/interview-with-green-tax-swap-guy/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>So too with income taxes</strong></p><p>Since wealth is, to a great degree, a measure of the availability of easy energy, when oil prices continue rising (in a volatile but generally upward trend) we're going to suffer serious recession and, ultimately, economic depression, as our economy struggles to transition to a much leaner, less energy available world -- </p><p>
So the fact that revenues from carbon taxes will go down when usage goes down is not a special weakness of carbon taxes. &nbsp;</p><p>
In fact, the one thing you can say about carbon taxes (as opposed to income taxes) is that the certainty that people who have to use carbon fuels will not have many options other than to pay the tax is much stronger than the hope that there will be any great deal of profits or income to tax.</p><p>
Indeed, to the extent we DO tax carbon and thereby propel people to shift away from carbon fuels, we not only promote a better environment but also a more economically resilient one. &nbsp;Right now our economic overshoot is all carbon fueled--which means we are very far out on a very weak limb.

<p>Save the world:  Reduce greenhouse gas emissions 5% annually.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>So too with income taxes</strong></p><p>Since wealth is, to a great degree, a measure of the availability of easy energy, when oil prices continue rising (in a volatile but generally upward trend) we're going to suffer serious recession and, ultimately, economic depression, as our economy struggles to transition to a much leaner, less energy available world -- </p><p>
So the fact that revenues from carbon taxes will go down when usage goes down is not a special weakness of carbon taxes. &nbsp;</p><p>
In fact, the one thing you can say about carbon taxes (as opposed to income taxes) is that the certainty that people who have to use carbon fuels will not have many options other than to pay the tax is much stronger than the hope that there will be any great deal of profits or income to tax.</p><p>
Indeed, to the extent we DO tax carbon and thereby propel people to shift away from carbon fuels, we not only promote a better environment but also a more economically resilient one. &nbsp;Right now our economic overshoot is all carbon fueled--which means we are very far out on a very weak limb.

<p>Save the world:  Reduce greenhouse gas emissions 5% annually.</p></p>
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