<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for How to pick the president]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Bart Anderson http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/ Mon, 04 Feb 2008 18:52:43 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/1 Transformation, yes! Electoral politics, ugh.

I'm with you all the way, Bill, on the need for radical, transformative change. Unfortunately, I do not see any hint of it in Clinton vs Obama.

Participating in current electoral politics seems like a huge waste of energy to me. Sure, I'll vote Democrat, but I know that at best we'll get someone whose views are what we used to call middle-of-the-road Republicans.  

If there is to be transformative change, I think it will come from OUTSIDE the process: building a culture that offers an alternative - research groups, websites, music, literature, networks, community organizations, etc.

This is where the ideas and visions will develop.

This is how the Right Wing became dominant in U.S. politics, by building an alternative set of institutions, such conservative thinktanks and right-wing radio.

Bart
Energy Bulletin

]]> Transformation, yes! Electoral politics, ugh.

I'm with you all the way, Bill, on the need for radical, transformative change. Unfortunately, I do not see any hint of it in Clinton vs Obama.

Participating in current electoral politics seems like a huge waste of energy to me. Sure, I'll vote Democrat, but I know that at best we'll get someone whose views are what we used to call middle-of-the-road Republicans.  

If there is to be transformative change, I think it will come from OUTSIDE the process: building a culture that offers an alternative - research groups, websites, music, literature, networks, community organizations, etc.

This is where the ideas and visions will develop.

This is how the Right Wing became dominant in U.S. politics, by building an alternative set of institutions, such conservative thinktanks and right-wing radio.

Bart
Energy Bulletin

]]> Comment #2 by ce1907 http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/ Mon, 04 Feb 2008 20:10:04 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/2 the right wing movement

was built, purposefully, by a moneyed clique in the late 70s

by expanding on zenophobia and racism in response to the fear and humiliations of economic dislocations in the late 70s

the same raw public feeligs could easily fuel right wing demogoguery again in the next couple years

do not be too sure that the vision thing is the way to go

common sense is the better angel

]]> the right wing movement

was built, purposefully, by a moneyed clique in the late 70s

by expanding on zenophobia and racism in response to the fear and humiliations of economic dislocations in the late 70s

the same raw public feeligs could easily fuel right wing demogoguery again in the next couple years

do not be too sure that the vision thing is the way to go

common sense is the better angel

]]> Comment #3 by GreenMom http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/ Mon, 04 Feb 2008 23:52:04 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/3 We need it all

We need to fight the right-wing vision with a vision of our own, in addition to the retail politics we have to work.

And Bart, yes, ideas and visions come from outside the system, but if the system is incapable of change, the road to change will be more much longer.  Politics is still critically important to the future of the planet -- who gets the research money, who gets the subsidies, whether we go to war, and on and on, will all be determined differently depending on which leaders we elect.

Since it's Super Tuesday...

I do think Obama is capable of bringing about transformational change.  I'm not confident he'll do it -- I worry that he'll compromise too much, as he has done throughout his career.  But I think he has the ability to rise to the occasion, and I hope he will.

While Clinton is green enough, I don't think she is capable of inspiring, and she certainly can match Obama's record of compromise.

Don't even talk to me about McCain (or, god forbid, Romney).

]]> We need it all

We need to fight the right-wing vision with a vision of our own, in addition to the retail politics we have to work.

And Bart, yes, ideas and visions come from outside the system, but if the system is incapable of change, the road to change will be more much longer.  Politics is still critically important to the future of the planet -- who gets the research money, who gets the subsidies, whether we go to war, and on and on, will all be determined differently depending on which leaders we elect.

Since it's Super Tuesday...

I do think Obama is capable of bringing about transformational change.  I'm not confident he'll do it -- I worry that he'll compromise too much, as he has done throughout his career.  But I think he has the ability to rise to the occasion, and I hope he will.

While Clinton is green enough, I don't think she is capable of inspiring, and she certainly can match Obama's record of compromise.

Don't even talk to me about McCain (or, god forbid, Romney).

]]> Comment #4 by Pompey Road http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/ Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:07:41 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/4 Radical Sabbatical

I don't think radical will be done when you can't even get common sense changes made.

Case in point coal strip mining on Federal Flood control projects. The Fishtrap Dam in Pike County Kentucky was constructed and is maintained for the purpose of flood control on the the Big Sandy River.

Federal Tax dollars to construct and maintain for a flood control project and yet it has become a coal corporation strip mine operation and a silt pond for the run off.

Does it not strike anyone as odd that the corps thinks that strip mining and flood control go together? I am talking over 30 years of stripping on a federal flood control project.

Clintwood Elkhorn Coal Company I hear has obtained a permit to strip another 6000 feet of stream that empties into the Fishtrap Lake. From the looks of the topography it is going to be a Mountain Top Removal. I don't know that for sure but sometimes original contour stripping turns into a MTR down here.

Everybody at the Federal level has taken an extended leave of absence concerning Coal Mining on Federal Lands. I feel they have taken leave of even common sense when they think that stripping the watershed and flood control can co-exist together.

The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.

]]> Radical Sabbatical

I don't think radical will be done when you can't even get common sense changes made.

Case in point coal strip mining on Federal Flood control projects. The Fishtrap Dam in Pike County Kentucky was constructed and is maintained for the purpose of flood control on the the Big Sandy River.

Federal Tax dollars to construct and maintain for a flood control project and yet it has become a coal corporation strip mine operation and a silt pond for the run off.

Does it not strike anyone as odd that the corps thinks that strip mining and flood control go together? I am talking over 30 years of stripping on a federal flood control project.

Clintwood Elkhorn Coal Company I hear has obtained a permit to strip another 6000 feet of stream that empties into the Fishtrap Lake. From the looks of the topography it is going to be a Mountain Top Removal. I don't know that for sure but sometimes original contour stripping turns into a MTR down here.

Everybody at the Federal level has taken an extended leave of absence concerning Coal Mining on Federal Lands. I feel they have taken leave of even common sense when they think that stripping the watershed and flood control can co-exist together.

The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.

]]> Comment #5 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/ Tue, 05 Feb 2008 02:09:55 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/5 Transform?

With energy positions written by nuclear, clean coal, and ethanol lobbyists?  While Barack is inspiring, the nuts and bolts of his policy come straight from corporate lobbyists.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Transform?

With energy positions written by nuclear, clean coal, and ethanol lobbyists?  While Barack is inspiring, the nuts and bolts of his policy come straight from corporate lobbyists.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #6 by Pompey Road http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/ Tue, 05 Feb 2008 04:05:49 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/6 RE Transform

Amen, the lobbist need to go, 12,000 wandering around D.C. stuffing freezers with money. It is a big national flea market up there. John Edwards was the only one that spoke forcefully about getting the corporate lobby out of government.

The revolving door is obvious when everybody bailed out early in order to miss the new ethics regulations regarding going from legislature to lobbyist. Trent Lot was not even ashamed to say so.

This is what you get when you have the best government money can buy!

The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.

]]> RE Transform

Amen, the lobbist need to go, 12,000 wandering around D.C. stuffing freezers with money. It is a big national flea market up there. John Edwards was the only one that spoke forcefully about getting the corporate lobby out of government.

The revolving door is obvious when everybody bailed out early in order to miss the new ethics regulations regarding going from legislature to lobbyist. Trent Lot was not even ashamed to say so.

This is what you get when you have the best government money can buy!

The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.

]]> Comment #7 by ce1907 http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/ Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:37:47 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/7 Pompey

lots of things are needed

top priority:  public funding of all House and Senate races

second priority:  more sunlight on day to day activities

the problem is cliques, not bribery

]]> Pompey

lots of things are needed

top priority:  public funding of all House and Senate races

second priority:  more sunlight on day to day activities

the problem is cliques, not bribery

]]> Comment #8 by stevenearlsalmony http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/ Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:25:13 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/incremental-improvement-vs-radical-change/8 The need for transforming change..........

.....to occur with all deliberate speed.

At least to me, global warming is not a "them versus us" problem, a China, India and the East versus USA, Europe and the West problem, for example. The overdeveloped nations, the developing nations and the underdeveloped nations are stakeholders with regard to global warming and climate change. For every stakeholder to point a finger at another stakeholder, as a way of placing blame for the potentially catastrophic consequences of runaway climate change, gets us nowhere, I suppose.

Is it reasonable and sensible for the human community to consider that those corporations and industries found to be responsible for polluting the environment during the 20th would be held accountable for that pollution AND those businesses responsible for polluting the Earth and its atmosphere in the  21st century would pay the costs of their present and future actions?

In order to secure a good enough future for our children, we could begin by examining the necessity of redirecting the great wealth that is being fecklessly hoarded and conspicuously squandered by a remarkably small group of people within the family of humanity toward conservation programs that protect and preserve the Earth.

Afterall, does anyone seriously believe or possess good scientific evidence to suggest that the artificially designed, dissipative national economies can much longer thrive without adequate resources and irreplaceable ecosystem services provided by Earth?

Steven Earl Salmony
AWAREness Campaign on The Human Population, established 2001
http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/



]]> The need for transforming change..........

.....to occur with all deliberate speed.

At least to me, global warming is not a "them versus us" problem, a China, India and the East versus USA, Europe and the West problem, for example. The overdeveloped nations, the developing nations and the underdeveloped nations are stakeholders with regard to global warming and climate change. For every stakeholder to point a finger at another stakeholder, as a way of placing blame for the potentially catastrophic consequences of runaway climate change, gets us nowhere, I suppose.

Is it reasonable and sensible for the human community to consider that those corporations and industries found to be responsible for polluting the environment during the 20th would be held accountable for that pollution AND those businesses responsible for polluting the Earth and its atmosphere in the  21st century would pay the costs of their present and future actions?

In order to secure a good enough future for our children, we could begin by examining the necessity of redirecting the great wealth that is being fecklessly hoarded and conspicuously squandered by a remarkably small group of people within the family of humanity toward conservation programs that protect and preserve the Earth.

Afterall, does anyone seriously believe or possess good scientific evidence to suggest that the artificially designed, dissipative national economies can much longer thrive without adequate resources and irreplaceable ecosystem services provided by Earth?

Steven Earl Salmony
AWAREness Campaign on The Human Population, established 2001
http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/



]]>