<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for California’s ‘hydrogen highway’ runs into roadblocks]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/hyway/ Wed, 02 Apr 2008 11:44:00 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/hyway/1 Ill Timed

The Hygrogen Highway Initiative is a great program, designed to spur -- not supercede - industry.

It has created a thin network of overlapping stations serving mostly the LA and San Franciso areas.

Here are the twenty four stations currently listed:
http://www.cafcp.org/fuel-vehl_map.html

It would be ill timed to not continue with this project (although, it really should be industries turn to carry the ball).  Just today, GM announced

GM calls for more hydrogen at the pump
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/gm-calls-hydrogen-f ...

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Establishing an infrastructure to fuel hydrogen-powered vehicles is "economically viable and doable," General Motors Corp. said Wednesday as the auto giant keynoted the National Hydrogen Association's annual meeting.

Larry Burns, GM's vice president for research and development and strategic planning, called on the energy industry and government to step up and help automakers make the futuristic vehicles a reality, in part by opening hydrogen fueling stations to encourage their use.

Under a study involving GM (GM, the price tag to provide access for about 70% of the U.S. population to a hydrogen station would be about $12 billion.

"It's now a question of collective will," Burns said. "Do we have the collective resolve to work together to solve the challenges we face rather than handing them off to future generations?"



]]> Ill Timed

The Hygrogen Highway Initiative is a great program, designed to spur -- not supercede - industry.

It has created a thin network of overlapping stations serving mostly the LA and San Franciso areas.

Here are the twenty four stations currently listed:
http://www.cafcp.org/fuel-vehl_map.html

It would be ill timed to not continue with this project (although, it really should be industries turn to carry the ball).  Just today, GM announced

GM calls for more hydrogen at the pump
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/gm-calls-hydrogen-f ...

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Establishing an infrastructure to fuel hydrogen-powered vehicles is "economically viable and doable," General Motors Corp. said Wednesday as the auto giant keynoted the National Hydrogen Association's annual meeting.

Larry Burns, GM's vice president for research and development and strategic planning, called on the energy industry and government to step up and help automakers make the futuristic vehicles a reality, in part by opening hydrogen fueling stations to encourage their use.

Under a study involving GM (GM, the price tag to provide access for about 70% of the U.S. population to a hydrogen station would be about $12 billion.

"It's now a question of collective will," Burns said. "Do we have the collective resolve to work together to solve the challenges we face rather than handing them off to future generations?"



]]> Comment #2 by Pangolin http://www.grist.org/article/hyway/ Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:17:57 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/hyway/2 Potemkin Gas Station

Let me say this slowly for the completely clueless.

There

will

NEVER

EVER

be

a hydrogen economy.

The physics don't work as well as the best lead acid batteries. It's all a big fraud to secure oil and car company profits while actually doing nothing to change.

]]> Potemkin Gas Station

Let me say this slowly for the completely clueless.

There

will

NEVER

EVER

be

a hydrogen economy.

The physics don't work as well as the best lead acid batteries. It's all a big fraud to secure oil and car company profits while actually doing nothing to change.

]]> Comment #3 by usandthem http://www.grist.org/article/hyway/ Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:51:20 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/hyway/3 Problems

One of the problems for the hydrogen powered autos is that currently we get most of our hydrogen from natural gas,a fossil fuel.We still have the same problem of needing and using oil to make hydrogen.Yes,we can get hydrogen from water,but it is extremely energy intensive and most of the electrical energy in this country comes from coal,dirty old coal.
 I wish fervently that we could develope hydrogen fuel cells that are affordable and effective.As to Pangolin.I did not know that hydrogen fuel cells were not workable.I mean that they are used in space vehicles and developed for the space industry,originally.They seem to work just fine,so I guess that I am confused.

]]> Problems

One of the problems for the hydrogen powered autos is that currently we get most of our hydrogen from natural gas,a fossil fuel.We still have the same problem of needing and using oil to make hydrogen.Yes,we can get hydrogen from water,but it is extremely energy intensive and most of the electrical energy in this country comes from coal,dirty old coal.
 I wish fervently that we could develope hydrogen fuel cells that are affordable and effective.As to Pangolin.I did not know that hydrogen fuel cells were not workable.I mean that they are used in space vehicles and developed for the space industry,originally.They seem to work just fine,so I guess that I am confused.

]]> Comment #4 by Pangolin http://www.grist.org/article/hyway/ Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:22:06 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/hyway/4 Hydrogen BAD!!

Hydrogen is used in spacecraft because you can use the same stuff to air and water your crew as you use to push said spacecraft. Also it stays liquid at incredibly cold temperatures unlike kerosene which tends to turn into a wax.

If the space shuttle used kerosene instead of hydrogen the booster tank would be 1/2 the size and cost 1/4 what a disposable liquid hydrogen tank costs. Sometimes cost is not a consideration when dealing with the military industrial complex.

The fuel cell used in space shuttles costs more than your house. Depending on your neighborhood it could cost more than your block.

As far as running a car with hydrogen it's insane. The tank alone costs more than my car. Then the tank leaks to empty in three days. Then you need a special course to handle the fuel hose (which also costs more than my car). Of course the fuel cell also costs more than three cars.

Once you have all the equipment in place the whole process of generating hydrogen, compressing it, transfer to vehicle and running it in the fuel cell takes 4x the energy per mile that simply running a battery-electric-vehicle uses.

Other than that, yah, it's neat stuff.

]]> Hydrogen BAD!!

Hydrogen is used in spacecraft because you can use the same stuff to air and water your crew as you use to push said spacecraft. Also it stays liquid at incredibly cold temperatures unlike kerosene which tends to turn into a wax.

If the space shuttle used kerosene instead of hydrogen the booster tank would be 1/2 the size and cost 1/4 what a disposable liquid hydrogen tank costs. Sometimes cost is not a consideration when dealing with the military industrial complex.

The fuel cell used in space shuttles costs more than your house. Depending on your neighborhood it could cost more than your block.

As far as running a car with hydrogen it's insane. The tank alone costs more than my car. Then the tank leaks to empty in three days. Then you need a special course to handle the fuel hose (which also costs more than my car). Of course the fuel cell also costs more than three cars.

Once you have all the equipment in place the whole process of generating hydrogen, compressing it, transfer to vehicle and running it in the fuel cell takes 4x the energy per mile that simply running a battery-electric-vehicle uses.

Other than that, yah, it's neat stuff.

]]>