Here in the US except for those retrofitted against manufactureres wishes by third parties like Calcars.  Foreign manufactureres know better than to even try to get them into the US market.  

Cheney thugs in the regulating agencies would use every rotten trick to scuttle them.

But here is a whole tour of delay and diversion hype, cars costing 100s of millions to develop with no practicallity at all.  All that money wasted to keep plugin hybrids from being mass produced.

This is truly obscene.  And the comments from the "experts" are pathetic.

Good article exposing it all though Sara, thanks.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

...the auto industry likes to tout that hydrogen fueled cars can be powered by hydrogen from water.

While this true, it is much easier and much less expensive to aquire hydrogen from fossil fuels.

Gee, I wonder which one they'll choose? ^rolls eyes^

And if it is possible to get lots of hydrogen from oil, and do it without producing CO2, then isn't that still a good thing?

Seperation of hydrogen from oil still creates CO2.

Plus, there's still the pollution from drilling and processing.

And the fact that as a non-renewable resource, it will still run out eventually.

The Nocera method has also yet to be proven at a large scale over long distances in regular driving conditions.

And it's still very expensive, unfortunately.

Then there's also the fact that even if water were used for the process, it would take billions of gallons annually for just the United States alone.  The water would have to be fresh and also fairly clean (requiring energy-intensive filtration).

And fresh water isn't nearly as abundant as it used to be, so just how are we gonna sustain that amount of consumption?

can you believe all the car companies that joined in on this?  and there will also be a hydrogen Volt?  Meanwhile, nobody seems to know how to make a plug-in.

BioD, do you know if those tanks are very expensive due to the leakage problem?  And I hope he's not in a fire prone area, if there was one those tanks would take out the neighborhood.

Every year some college kids and some car companies get together for an August "fun run" across America and this year is no exception. Hey, if some big money and some kids think it's fun, let them have their fun. If it is commercially viable, like solar powered vehicles, well, that's not the purpose of these PR jobs.  

Every summer engineering kids get to build robotic vehicles, like for a Baja course, and yes we now have a hydrogen "fun run." So what? We know about energy density and upstream energy leakage and things like that. Let 'em have their fun, the PR fade away, and see what the market has to bear.

Onward through the fog

Almost hard to believe Jon.  The mass delusion behind it all.  Has human culture always run on self deception and mass delusion?

Gotta hand it to Sara and the other Gristers who keep hammering on the mass media, count the articles from the staff and regular contributors on this topic of media acceptance of industry deception.

It's the only place I know where this is the norm and not the exception.  This makes Grist the best internet street corner for those of us frustrated by it to speak up.

What's the name of that street corner in London where they have been ranting for centuries?

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

 "Ironically disastrous energy boondoggles for 500 Alex."

"Hydrogen as a majical energy solution is about to go down like this infamous airship."

Your connection with reality may be in "Jeapordy" JB.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

You were the first commenter to link me to geothermal heat pumps (sorry amazin, must have been the timing), you are an effective advocate for bikes, and you live in what sounds like a well-functioning town (not an exurb).  It seems to me that large scale batteries like sodium-sulfur could be very useful for storage, particularly in buildings.  Any info on that?

Ground source heat pumps have been around for a long time, although direct circulation heat envelope heating and building mass cooling are possibly even more effective than heat pumps in most of the US.

Down in the south where volatile weather has created heating demand, the ground temperature is warm enough to heat directly.  In northern areas the ground temperature is still high enough to reduce haeting load to rqual the value of waste heat inside the building.  

Direct cooling is feasible everywhere except the southernmost areas of the US.  In those areas heat envelope cooling can reduce heat pump cooling load to a small fraction of energy use.

It's a good warning though, being mentiond in conjunction with Bailo twice now in 2 days, yikes!

It's vacation season though, low internet traffic creates anomalies.  At least I hope that's it.  Hehey.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

I sometimes wonder about Bailo

Does he really believe what he's saying
Is he just some paid off astroturfer
Or does he just enjoy annoying people

-David Ahlport

It's not a lie, if you yourself actually believe it.  Many actually believe environmental activism is a liberal conspiracy, devoid of any underlying reality.

 Who would pay him for the worthless cr..  hmmm, on the other hand, "drug" limbaugh himself is wealthy enough to get actual (normal?) women to date him.

3  Yep.  You got it.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

...jabailo, read the article.  Those fuel cells were for PEDAL-DRIVEN MOPEDS, NOT CARS!

Wanna guess at the difference?

And since only 30 of 'em were sold, I'm guessin' that even for mopeds they're too expensive to be viable.

That report was in 2006.

The breakthrough in electrolysis was in 2008...July 2008.

In hydrogen technology years, the difference between 2006 and 2008 is like the difference between the 21st century and the 18th.

You can't put in a link to a two year old report that has zero knowledge of the Nocera process and expect people to take your seriously....

...so then, if the technology is takin' off by leaps and bounds, then how many additional hydrogen-powered mopeds are there now?

Two years later?

After the first shipment?