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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Memo calling for increased offshore drilling and shale development]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/house-gop-offers-americans-false-hope-failed-policies-and-eco-havoc/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:50:38 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/house-gop-offers-americans-false-hope-failed-policies-and-eco-havoc/1</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>So<p>I just realized.<p>
New Coal plants get the same PTC as Wind/Geothermal.<br>
It's actually part of the same "Renewable Energy Tax Credit".<br>
<a href="http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/incentive2.cfm?Incentive_Code=US13F&amp;State=federal&amp;currentpageid=1&amp;ee=0&amp;re=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/incentive2.cfm?I ...<p>
Kinda sickening, huh?<br>
_<p>
"Refined" Coal is more commonly known as Pulverized Coal.<br>
<a href="http://www.atomicinsights.com/FTROU/3-22-01.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.atomicinsights.com/FTROU/3-22-01.html<p>
As for Indian Coal, apparently it's Coal mined on Indian Reservations.<br>
<a href="http://www.stoel.com/showalert.aspx?Show=2380" rel="nofollow">http://www.stoel.com/showalert.aspx?Show=2380<p>
_<p>
Nuclear power gets essentially the same PTC as well.<br>
<a href="http://www.snl.com/interactivex/article.aspx?CdId=A-7378259-9824" rel="nofollow">http://www.snl.com/interactivex/article.aspx?CdId=A-73782 ...<p>
_<p>
Photovoltaics, and Baseload Solar Thermal get a different Investment tax credit. (ITC)<br>
<a href="http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/incentive2.cfm?Incentive_Code=US02F&amp;State=federal&amp;currentpageid=1&amp;ee=0&amp;re=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/incentive2.cfm?I ...<p>
Coal Sequestration apparently gets a similar ITC, as does building the CO2 sequestration pipelines. &nbsp;And apparently "enhanced" oil recovery also get a tax credit.<br>
<a href="http://featured.matternetwork.com/2007/10/us-investing-costly-coal-sequestration.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://featured.matternetwork.com/2007/10/us-investing-co ...<p>
And apparently a few more coal tax credits floating around for IGCC.<br>
<a href="http://www.doe.gov/news/4495.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.doe.gov/news/4495.htm<p>
Sure would be nice if we had a way to compare these things side by side.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/subs.png" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/subs.png<p>
_<p>
And I wouldn't be surprised if they have an Oil Shale Tax Credit, or an Offshore drilling Tax Credit floating around somewhere.

<p>-David Ahlport</p></p></p></a></br></p></a></br></p></a></br></p></a></br></p></p></a></br></p></p></a></br></p></a></br></p></br></p></a></br></br></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>So<p>I just realized.<p>
New Coal plants get the same PTC as Wind/Geothermal.<br>
It's actually part of the same "Renewable Energy Tax Credit".<br>
<a href="http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/incentive2.cfm?Incentive_Code=US13F&amp;State=federal&amp;currentpageid=1&amp;ee=0&amp;re=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/incentive2.cfm?I ...<p>
Kinda sickening, huh?<br>
_<p>
"Refined" Coal is more commonly known as Pulverized Coal.<br>
<a href="http://www.atomicinsights.com/FTROU/3-22-01.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.atomicinsights.com/FTROU/3-22-01.html<p>
As for Indian Coal, apparently it's Coal mined on Indian Reservations.<br>
<a href="http://www.stoel.com/showalert.aspx?Show=2380" rel="nofollow">http://www.stoel.com/showalert.aspx?Show=2380<p>
_<p>
Nuclear power gets essentially the same PTC as well.<br>
<a href="http://www.snl.com/interactivex/article.aspx?CdId=A-7378259-9824" rel="nofollow">http://www.snl.com/interactivex/article.aspx?CdId=A-73782 ...<p>
_<p>
Photovoltaics, and Baseload Solar Thermal get a different Investment tax credit. (ITC)<br>
<a href="http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/incentive2.cfm?Incentive_Code=US02F&amp;State=federal&amp;currentpageid=1&amp;ee=0&amp;re=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/incentive2.cfm?I ...<p>
Coal Sequestration apparently gets a similar ITC, as does building the CO2 sequestration pipelines. &nbsp;And apparently "enhanced" oil recovery also get a tax credit.<br>
<a href="http://featured.matternetwork.com/2007/10/us-investing-costly-coal-sequestration.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://featured.matternetwork.com/2007/10/us-investing-co ...<p>
And apparently a few more coal tax credits floating around for IGCC.<br>
<a href="http://www.doe.gov/news/4495.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.doe.gov/news/4495.htm<p>
Sure would be nice if we had a way to compare these things side by side.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/subs.png" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/subs.png<p>
_<p>
And I wouldn't be surprised if they have an Oil Shale Tax Credit, or an Offshore drilling Tax Credit floating around somewhere.

<p>-David Ahlport</p></p></p></a></br></p></a></br></p></a></br></p></a></br></p></p></a></br></p></p></a></br></p></a></br></p></br></p></a></br></br></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/house-gop-offers-americans-false-hope-failed-policies-and-eco-havoc/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:51:08 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/house-gop-offers-americans-false-hope-failed-policies-and-eco-havoc/2</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Down the rabbit hole....<p>Or how about the magically named "alternative fuel production credit".<br>
The largest tax expenditure supporting <strong>electricity production from fossil fuels was the alternative fuel production credit, which Treasury estimated at $2.1 billion for fiscal year 2007.<br>
<a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/subsidy/box_txt.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/subsidy/box_txt.ht ...<p>
 &nbsp; &nbsp;* &nbsp;Oil produced from shale and tar sands<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; * Gas from geopressurized brine, Devonian shale, coal seams, tight formations, and biomass<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; * Liquid, gaseous, or solid synthetic fuels produced from coal<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; * Fuel from qualified processed formations or biomass<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; * Steam from agricultural products.<p>
(However as of 2007)The credit no longer applies to fuel from qualified processed formations or biomass or steam from agricultural products.<br>
<a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/subsidy/box_txt.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/subsidy/box_txt.ht ...

<p>-David Ahlport</p></a></br></p></p></p></p></p></p></a></br></strong></br></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Down the rabbit hole....<p>Or how about the magically named "alternative fuel production credit".<br>
The largest tax expenditure supporting <strong>electricity production from fossil fuels was the alternative fuel production credit, which Treasury estimated at $2.1 billion for fiscal year 2007.<br>
<a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/subsidy/box_txt.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/subsidy/box_txt.ht ...<p>
 &nbsp; &nbsp;* &nbsp;Oil produced from shale and tar sands<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; * Gas from geopressurized brine, Devonian shale, coal seams, tight formations, and biomass<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; * Liquid, gaseous, or solid synthetic fuels produced from coal<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; * Fuel from qualified processed formations or biomass<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; * Steam from agricultural products.<p>
(However as of 2007)The credit no longer applies to fuel from qualified processed formations or biomass or steam from agricultural products.<br>
<a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/subsidy/box_txt.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/subsidy/box_txt.ht ...

<p>-David Ahlport</p></a></br></p></p></p></p></p></p></a></br></strong></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by MAD MAC</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/house-gop-offers-americans-false-hope-failed-policies-and-eco-havoc/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:42:49 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/house-gop-offers-americans-false-hope-failed-policies-and-eco-havoc/3</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>False logic is applied here</strong></p><p>Providing more oil to the market will reduce prices. This does not mean if we open the Alaska reserve it the price of gas will fall. It means the cost of gas will be lower than if we don't open it. </p><p>
How about if people advocating this are simply honest. The concern is about environmental issues. Most people posting here don't think we should be using oil at all. They don't want any deep sea drilling, regardless of what oil supply problems it does or does not solve.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>False logic is applied here</strong></p><p>Providing more oil to the market will reduce prices. This does not mean if we open the Alaska reserve it the price of gas will fall. It means the cost of gas will be lower than if we don't open it. </p><p>
How about if people advocating this are simply honest. The concern is about environmental issues. Most people posting here don't think we should be using oil at all. They don't want any deep sea drilling, regardless of what oil supply problems it does or does not solve.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/house-gop-offers-americans-false-hope-failed-policies-and-eco-havoc/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 07:07:09 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/house-gop-offers-americans-false-hope-failed-policies-and-eco-havoc/4</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>I Actually Agree With Mac On This One</strong></p><p>The second paragraph of Mac's post is the one of the main reasons to either avoid economic arguments altogether or at least make them minor arguments when making arguments for reducing or eliminating environmental problems. &nbsp;Economic arguments from environmentalists not only raise suspicions about honesty, they also don't get the message across about how harmful the activity is that we're trying to stop or reduce. &nbsp;If your main argument and concern is economics, you're not an environmentalist.</p>
			]]></description>
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				<p><strong>I Actually Agree With Mac On This One</strong></p><p>The second paragraph of Mac's post is the one of the main reasons to either avoid economic arguments altogether or at least make them minor arguments when making arguments for reducing or eliminating environmental problems. &nbsp;Economic arguments from environmentalists not only raise suspicions about honesty, they also don't get the message across about how harmful the activity is that we're trying to stop or reduce. &nbsp;If your main argument and concern is economics, you're not an environmentalist.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Colin Wright</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/house-gop-offers-americans-false-hope-failed-policies-and-eco-havoc/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 14:50:17 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/house-gop-offers-americans-false-hope-failed-policies-and-eco-havoc/5</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>From one of the fold:<p>Joe writes: "The House GOP has defied the will of the public on energy efficiency, wind, photovoltaics, baseload solar thermal, and fuel economy standards since the Gingrich revolution."<p>
There are a couple of exceptions. Rosscoe Bartlett (h/t energybulletin.net) says this of his fellow <a href="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/12003.html" rel="nofollow">Republicans:<br>
This `drill here, drill more, pay less' is a great mantra, and it's hurting the Democrats. But you need to finish that: `And screw your kids and your grandkids,' because that's what we're doing." <p>
As a sidenote, Joe leaves out Geothermal, which Bush tried to <a href="http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/national/2008/07/21/in-the-push-for-alternative-energy-what-happened-to-geothermal.html?PageNr=1" rel="nofollow">zero out.<br>
This struggle is most obvious in the Bush administration's attempt, two years ago, to cut the Department of Energy's geothermal program. The impact is still being felt today. During the program's heyday in the 1980s, it received about $80 million in annual funding, money that financed research and salaries at national laboratories.<p>
By the first part of this decade, the annual allotment had dropped to less than $30 million. Then, looking to cut overall spending, the Bush administration began to eye geothermal programs, many of which are long term, as an easy target. In 2006, the White House requested no money for geothermal energy in its annual budget. "They were going to zero it out," says John Lund, director of the Oregon Institute of Technology's Geo-Heat Center. "They said we were a mature technology and that we didn't need support<br>
</br></p></br></a></p></br></a></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
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				<p><strong>From one of the fold:<p>Joe writes: "The House GOP has defied the will of the public on energy efficiency, wind, photovoltaics, baseload solar thermal, and fuel economy standards since the Gingrich revolution."<p>
There are a couple of exceptions. Rosscoe Bartlett (h/t energybulletin.net) says this of his fellow <a href="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/12003.html" rel="nofollow">Republicans:<br>
This `drill here, drill more, pay less' is a great mantra, and it's hurting the Democrats. But you need to finish that: `And screw your kids and your grandkids,' because that's what we're doing." <p>
As a sidenote, Joe leaves out Geothermal, which Bush tried to <a href="http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/national/2008/07/21/in-the-push-for-alternative-energy-what-happened-to-geothermal.html?PageNr=1" rel="nofollow">zero out.<br>
This struggle is most obvious in the Bush administration's attempt, two years ago, to cut the Department of Energy's geothermal program. The impact is still being felt today. During the program's heyday in the 1980s, it received about $80 million in annual funding, money that financed research and salaries at national laboratories.<p>
By the first part of this decade, the annual allotment had dropped to less than $30 million. Then, looking to cut overall spending, the Bush administration began to eye geothermal programs, many of which are long term, as an easy target. In 2006, the White House requested no money for geothermal energy in its annual budget. "They were going to zero it out," says John Lund, director of the Oregon Institute of Technology's Geo-Heat Center. "They said we were a mature technology and that we didn't need support<br>
</br></p></br></a></p></br></a></p></p></strong></p>
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