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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Umbra on home heating]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Sunny Side Up</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 06:50:04 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Heating Elements</strong></p><p>Jesse, </p><p>
Don't fret! &nbsp;There are tons of options that are great. &nbsp;And don't hold out: radiant flooring IS a possibility. &nbsp;Let's talk....</p><p>
But Umbra's summary is right on. &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>Heating Elements</strong></p><p>Jesse, </p><p>
Don't fret! &nbsp;There are tons of options that are great. &nbsp;And don't hold out: radiant flooring IS a possibility. &nbsp;Let's talk....</p><p>
But Umbra's summary is right on. &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by J26</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:02:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>A Cleaner Greener  Home Heating Option<p>This is a great response. Homeowners do have afforable and green choices! If you are looking for Bio Heating Oil (a blend of Biodiesel and regular heating oil) to heat your home in Mass you can learn more about <a href="http://www.massenergy.com.bio" rel="nofollow"> Mass Energy BioHeating Oil .<p>
Mass Energy Consumers Alliance is a non-profit organization that provides affordable and sustainable heating and electricity options through out the state.</p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>A Cleaner Greener  Home Heating Option<p>This is a great response. Homeowners do have afforable and green choices! If you are looking for Bio Heating Oil (a blend of Biodiesel and regular heating oil) to heat your home in Mass you can learn more about <a href="http://www.massenergy.com.bio" rel="nofollow"> Mass Energy BioHeating Oil .<p>
Mass Energy Consumers Alliance is a non-profit organization that provides affordable and sustainable heating and electricity options through out the state.</p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by PBrazelton</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:20:20 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Funny</strong></p><p>I'm going to the permit office tomorrow to see if I can get my radiant floor design approved. &nbsp;This is on a 72-year-old house. &nbsp;The secret is: you can remove your ceilings, they're not structural members of the house. &nbsp;It's messy and ugly, but in the end you'll have more efficient, more comfortable heat. &nbsp;I hope.</p><p>
As for insulation, windows and doors are a no brainer. &nbsp;Also consider slow rise foam for your exterior walls - imagine having R-30 walls. &nbsp;That's a lot of heat (or cool air) saved.</p>
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				<p><strong>Funny</strong></p><p>I'm going to the permit office tomorrow to see if I can get my radiant floor design approved. &nbsp;This is on a 72-year-old house. &nbsp;The secret is: you can remove your ceilings, they're not structural members of the house. &nbsp;It's messy and ugly, but in the end you'll have more efficient, more comfortable heat. &nbsp;I hope.</p><p>
As for insulation, windows and doors are a no brainer. &nbsp;Also consider slow rise foam for your exterior walls - imagine having R-30 walls. &nbsp;That's a lot of heat (or cool air) saved.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by crisrich</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:27:31 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Reduce demand first!</strong></p><p>The best energy is the one you don&#180;t use!</p><p>
If you buy a new heat generation system first, it will be oversized in the future, after you insulate your house. Oversized equipment is always less efficient than one sized correctly. So you would overpay twice: for a too large system and for comsumption of energy that is higher than needed (because of the lower efficiency) over the whole lifetime of the new equipment!</p><p>
As Umbra wrote, the number of options are very large, so it&#180;s best to invest some money hiring a specialized consultant who will make you a complete project, starting with the reduction of demand, which will consist mostly of insulation measures.</p><p>
You should also ask around and search the Internet for possible financial asssistance and/or subsidies to do a complete energy savings project.</p><p>
Have fun! </p>
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				<p><strong>Reduce demand first!</strong></p><p>The best energy is the one you don&#180;t use!</p><p>
If you buy a new heat generation system first, it will be oversized in the future, after you insulate your house. Oversized equipment is always less efficient than one sized correctly. So you would overpay twice: for a too large system and for comsumption of energy that is higher than needed (because of the lower efficiency) over the whole lifetime of the new equipment!</p><p>
As Umbra wrote, the number of options are very large, so it&#180;s best to invest some money hiring a specialized consultant who will make you a complete project, starting with the reduction of demand, which will consist mostly of insulation measures.</p><p>
You should also ask around and search the Internet for possible financial asssistance and/or subsidies to do a complete energy savings project.</p><p>
Have fun! </p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by boogaloo</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:54:54 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>geothermal heat pump</strong></p><p>I was surprised not to see geothermal heat pumps mentioned. We are in the process of installing one at our house on the grounds that (if the EPA is to be believed) they are the most efficient system in the overall use of external energy sources. </p><p>
That is, if I compare the amount of oil I would use in my oil furnace with the amount of oil the utility would use to make enough electricity for my heat pump, &nbsp;the utility will use less. </p><p>
Incidentally, my preconception was that we could<br>
not drill the wells because of being in the city,<br>
but I was wrong.</p><p>
I understand the problem that electrical generation can be noxious, but that is a separate battle for all of us to fight with the utility companies and the government. </br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>geothermal heat pump</strong></p><p>I was surprised not to see geothermal heat pumps mentioned. We are in the process of installing one at our house on the grounds that (if the EPA is to be believed) they are the most efficient system in the overall use of external energy sources. </p><p>
That is, if I compare the amount of oil I would use in my oil furnace with the amount of oil the utility would use to make enough electricity for my heat pump, &nbsp;the utility will use less. </p><p>
Incidentally, my preconception was that we could<br>
not drill the wells because of being in the city,<br>
but I was wrong.</p><p>
I understand the problem that electrical generation can be noxious, but that is a separate battle for all of us to fight with the utility companies and the government. </br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by eriqa</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:57:20 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Or to think outside the electric box...<p>...how about a corn-burning stove? &nbsp;It's like ethanol without the middleman - practically zero-carbon, and from what I hear (I'm not an expert) clean-burning.<p>
See: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2m4538" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/2m4538<p>
If I were starting from scratch, that's probably what I'd go for.</p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Or to think outside the electric box...<p>...how about a corn-burning stove? &nbsp;It's like ethanol without the middleman - practically zero-carbon, and from what I hear (I'm not an expert) clean-burning.<p>
See: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2m4538" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/2m4538<p>
If I were starting from scratch, that's probably what I'd go for.</p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Phil Smith</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:57:22 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Back Puffing and Boiler hyjinx</strong></p><p>Back Puffing on an oil fired furnace or boiler is a "Surefire" indicator of a lack of air to the combustion system. You need a supply of Combustion Air as long as you keep this working in your home. This is a big safety concern and needs to be addressed right away! Call a Heating Contractor NOW!</p><p>
Any new equipment you get should be of a direct vent design, providing a direct supply of combustion air from the outside into the combustion chamber, and a direct exhaust to the exterior. In both cases two or three inch PVC pipe can be used for venting.</p><p>
When deciding on upgrading your heating system (You will want to move from the steam boiler as you will not want to tolerate the low efficiency with the peak efficiency available now and in the future being only about 83%) you will need to have the distribution system assessed for possible conversion to hot water.</p><p>
If you have a single pipe steam system, then it is total replacement time!</p><p>
Replacement of everything is not always needed. If you have a two pipe steam system then a possible conversion including a reworking of the existing radiators is possible.</p><p>
You may have to replace the piping and this can be done with pex type piping , the same used for infloor radiant heat. This can be run through the interior of walls to the radiator locations with out as much destruction as one might think.</p><p>
I like radiators as you can get better zone control with little perks like a radiator for a bathroom that also serves as a towel warmer! You can keep the bathroom cooler with a warm towel to dry with!</p><p>
A new boiler can also be used to heat your tap water and Solar can be added to this &nbsp;as well.</p>
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				<p><strong>Back Puffing and Boiler hyjinx</strong></p><p>Back Puffing on an oil fired furnace or boiler is a "Surefire" indicator of a lack of air to the combustion system. You need a supply of Combustion Air as long as you keep this working in your home. This is a big safety concern and needs to be addressed right away! Call a Heating Contractor NOW!</p><p>
Any new equipment you get should be of a direct vent design, providing a direct supply of combustion air from the outside into the combustion chamber, and a direct exhaust to the exterior. In both cases two or three inch PVC pipe can be used for venting.</p><p>
When deciding on upgrading your heating system (You will want to move from the steam boiler as you will not want to tolerate the low efficiency with the peak efficiency available now and in the future being only about 83%) you will need to have the distribution system assessed for possible conversion to hot water.</p><p>
If you have a single pipe steam system, then it is total replacement time!</p><p>
Replacement of everything is not always needed. If you have a two pipe steam system then a possible conversion including a reworking of the existing radiators is possible.</p><p>
You may have to replace the piping and this can be done with pex type piping , the same used for infloor radiant heat. This can be run through the interior of walls to the radiator locations with out as much destruction as one might think.</p><p>
I like radiators as you can get better zone control with little perks like a radiator for a bathroom that also serves as a towel warmer! You can keep the bathroom cooler with a warm towel to dry with!</p><p>
A new boiler can also be used to heat your tap water and Solar can be added to this &nbsp;as well.</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Phil Smith</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:03:21 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>geothermal heat pump</strong></p><p>geothermal heat pumps are not always the greenest option. &nbsp;I can only speak to cold climate conditions.<br>
When I say cold, not that mamby pamby stuff of 10 or 15, rather -15 to -30.</p><p>


Efficiency in the building reducing the need to heat and cool is the BEST investment.</p><p>
depending on your fuel mix and Location &nbsp;chances are the high efficiency gas heating equipment will end up with a net lower greenhouse gas emissions than a ground source heat pump as well as provide a better return in investment. 

</br></p>
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				<p><strong>geothermal heat pump</strong></p><p>geothermal heat pumps are not always the greenest option. &nbsp;I can only speak to cold climate conditions.<br>
When I say cold, not that mamby pamby stuff of 10 or 15, rather -15 to -30.</p><p>


Efficiency in the building reducing the need to heat and cool is the BEST investment.</p><p>
depending on your fuel mix and Location &nbsp;chances are the high efficiency gas heating equipment will end up with a net lower greenhouse gas emissions than a ground source heat pump as well as provide a better return in investment. 

</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by A Siegel</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:55:40 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>As per others ...<p>

&nbsp;INSULATE! INSULATE!! ... BUT FIRST AIR SEAL!!! Get the house "efficient" in terms of usage as the first step. &nbsp;This is an integrated process.<p>
&nbsp;Re heating ... there are so many options.<p>




 If steam/radiant, consider the value of solar hot water as the feedstock. This will lower the energy required to heat up the water to required temperatures for heating. &nbsp;(And, if radiant as a choice and the option is available, dig down a reservoir for storing solar heat from summer for winter purposes.) The solar option thus picks up probably 70+% of the annual hot water heating demand.<p>
 Natural Gas: In the Northeast, definitely worth checking out a combined-heat power system. &nbsp;(Such as the Micro-CHP system from Honda / Climate Energy. (<a href="http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1048/releases/3822" rel="nofollow">http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1048/releases/3822)<p>
 If you have an air conditioning requirement (not common in MA), can consider a 'fossil fuel system' combining high-efficiency Heat Pump (mine, SEER 16+) with a high-efficiency gas furnance. &nbsp;With a good controller/thermostat, system switches between the two for the most fuel (and/or cost) efficient option for heating. &nbsp;(And, this creates a mixed gas/electric option for heating.)<p>
 Solar passive: &nbsp;Any ability to build back in solar passive heating?<p>


But, to go back, SEAL LEAKS &amp; INSULATE (which, by the way, slow rising foam does both ...) to reduce overall requirements.<p>
Key question for anyone looking to replace a heating system on an old home: &nbsp;Have they had a home energy audit? (A good start is Home Energy Diet (see my review at: <a href="http://www.ecotality.com/blog/2007/energy-bookshelf-1-putting-your-home-on-a-diet/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ecotality.com/blog/2007/energy-bookshelf-1-put ... )</a></p></p></p></p></a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>As per others ...<p>

&nbsp;INSULATE! INSULATE!! ... BUT FIRST AIR SEAL!!! Get the house "efficient" in terms of usage as the first step. &nbsp;This is an integrated process.<p>
&nbsp;Re heating ... there are so many options.<p>




 If steam/radiant, consider the value of solar hot water as the feedstock. This will lower the energy required to heat up the water to required temperatures for heating. &nbsp;(And, if radiant as a choice and the option is available, dig down a reservoir for storing solar heat from summer for winter purposes.) The solar option thus picks up probably 70+% of the annual hot water heating demand.<p>
 Natural Gas: In the Northeast, definitely worth checking out a combined-heat power system. &nbsp;(Such as the Micro-CHP system from Honda / Climate Energy. (<a href="http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1048/releases/3822" rel="nofollow">http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1048/releases/3822)<p>
 If you have an air conditioning requirement (not common in MA), can consider a 'fossil fuel system' combining high-efficiency Heat Pump (mine, SEER 16+) with a high-efficiency gas furnance. &nbsp;With a good controller/thermostat, system switches between the two for the most fuel (and/or cost) efficient option for heating. &nbsp;(And, this creates a mixed gas/electric option for heating.)<p>
 Solar passive: &nbsp;Any ability to build back in solar passive heating?<p>


But, to go back, SEAL LEAKS &amp; INSULATE (which, by the way, slow rising foam does both ...) to reduce overall requirements.<p>
Key question for anyone looking to replace a heating system on an old home: &nbsp;Have they had a home energy audit? (A good start is Home Energy Diet (see my review at: <a href="http://www.ecotality.com/blog/2007/energy-bookshelf-1-putting-your-home-on-a-diet/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ecotality.com/blog/2007/energy-bookshelf-1-put ... )</a></p></p></p></p></a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by hillhi</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:19:45 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>first, get the thing serviced/ tuned up/cleaned</strong></p><p>I speak as oil burner owner, hot-water baseboard.<br>
That's it--then compare alternatives</br></p>
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				<p><strong>first, get the thing serviced/ tuned up/cleaned</strong></p><p>I speak as oil burner owner, hot-water baseboard.<br>
That's it--then compare alternatives</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by longhsore1</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:21:59 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>Oil Tank</strong></p><p>If you have a underground oil tank I would have it removed first. &nbsp;If it leaks it going to cost a lot of money. </p>
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				<p><strong>Oil Tank</strong></p><p>If you have a underground oil tank I would have it removed first. &nbsp;If it leaks it going to cost a lot of money. </p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by Liara Covert</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2007 19:50:30 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/12</guid>
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				<p><strong>Nostalgia</strong></p><p>Your story reminded me of the experience close friends had with an unexpected leak. &nbsp;My advice is check your attic as well as your basement. Unforeseen surprises may await you in unexpected places.</p>
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				<p><strong>Nostalgia</strong></p><p>Your story reminded me of the experience close friends had with an unexpected leak. &nbsp;My advice is check your attic as well as your basement. Unforeseen surprises may await you in unexpected places.</p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by sanjo</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:41:36 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/13</guid>
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				<p><strong>Radiant Panels<p>&nbsp; Several years ago, I replaced my hot water radiators in the upstairs rooms with radiant heat panels on the ceiling. &nbsp;i also insulated the interior walls and have a thermostat in each room. &nbsp;this way, only the rooms being used need to be heated. &nbsp;Even though I was switching from natural gas to electricity (And LI has the highest electrical rates in the country!) I saved $200 in heating costs in the first winter.<br>
You can turn these panels on and off just like your lights. &nbsp;There are no moving parts, installation costs are minimal, they are 95% effecient (as opposed to the gas burner which is only 84%) and they are comfortable! I am getting ready to do the rest of the house this spring. check out <a href="http://sshcinc.com/BarNone2.htm" rel="nofollow">http://sshcinc.com/BarNone2.htm</a></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Radiant Panels<p>&nbsp; Several years ago, I replaced my hot water radiators in the upstairs rooms with radiant heat panels on the ceiling. &nbsp;i also insulated the interior walls and have a thermostat in each room. &nbsp;this way, only the rooms being used need to be heated. &nbsp;Even though I was switching from natural gas to electricity (And LI has the highest electrical rates in the country!) I saved $200 in heating costs in the first winter.<br>
You can turn these panels on and off just like your lights. &nbsp;There are no moving parts, installation costs are minimal, they are 95% effecient (as opposed to the gas burner which is only 84%) and they are comfortable! I am getting ready to do the rest of the house this spring. check out <a href="http://sshcinc.com/BarNone2.htm" rel="nofollow">http://sshcinc.com/BarNone2.htm</a></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by reguru</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 02:10:13 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/home_heating/14</guid>
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				<p><strong>heating water</strong></p><p>I'm surprised that no one has mentioned a solar (thermal) hot water system as a solution for Jesse.</p><p>
A solar system with an adequately sized storage tank, placed in the basement, could meet not only his heating needs but also provide his domestic hot water (and heat his hot-tub to boot).</p><p>
If he "backed up" his solar thermal system with a Bosch or Takagi variable flame tankless water heater, which are very efficient, he'd be "greening up" on several fronts AND solving his boiler problem.</p>
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				<p><strong>heating water</strong></p><p>I'm surprised that no one has mentioned a solar (thermal) hot water system as a solution for Jesse.</p><p>
A solar system with an adequately sized storage tank, placed in the basement, could meet not only his heating needs but also provide his domestic hot water (and heat his hot-tub to boot).</p><p>
If he "backed up" his solar thermal system with a Bosch or Takagi variable flame tankless water heater, which are very efficient, he'd be "greening up" on several fronts AND solving his boiler problem.</p>
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