<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom">
<channel>
	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for How the meat industry thrives, even as costs rise]]></title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.grist.org/rss/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
	<language>en</language>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #1 by jaborganic</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:06:12 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/1</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Dead Zone</strong></p><p>I must have missed that one in the paper. &nbsp;Have you called the DNR in Iowa? &nbsp;I'm sure if there was a dead zone in an Iowa creek, stream, or river, they would like to know about it. &nbsp;Can you name the offenders? &nbsp;We can send out the police to have them arrested.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Dead Zone</strong></p><p>I must have missed that one in the paper. &nbsp;Have you called the DNR in Iowa? &nbsp;I'm sure if there was a dead zone in an Iowa creek, stream, or river, they would like to know about it. &nbsp;Can you name the offenders? &nbsp;We can send out the police to have them arrested.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #2 by amc89</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:35:03 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/2</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Become involved politically</strong></p><p>Sorry state of affairs.</p><p>
Another important step for ordinary citizens after pledging to reject factory farmed foods is to put pressure on their legislators to support legislation restricting factory farming, at the national, state and local level. &nbsp;</p><p>
For example, there are several state bills aimed at stopping intensive hog confinement. Arizona passed last November a citizen ballot question to stop veal and pig factory farming. &nbsp;At the national level, we can ask our legislators to stop giving subsidies to the meat industry. For example, in the recent Farm Bill, a provision was stopped that would have given a $12 million subsidy for the U.S. veal industry. &nbsp;</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Become involved politically</strong></p><p>Sorry state of affairs.</p><p>
Another important step for ordinary citizens after pledging to reject factory farmed foods is to put pressure on their legislators to support legislation restricting factory farming, at the national, state and local level. &nbsp;</p><p>
For example, there are several state bills aimed at stopping intensive hog confinement. Arizona passed last November a citizen ballot question to stop veal and pig factory farming. &nbsp;At the national level, we can ask our legislators to stop giving subsidies to the meat industry. For example, in the recent Farm Bill, a provision was stopped that would have given a $12 million subsidy for the U.S. veal industry. &nbsp;</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #3 by Tom Philpott</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:50:12 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/3</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Jaborganic,<p>Welcome aboard. <p>
The Iowa DNR is quite aware of the sad state of waterways in Hardin. <a href="http://programs.iowadnr.com/fishkill/search.aspx" rel="nofollow">Here they document four cases of fish kills in Hardin in 2005 and 2006 alone. <p>
Here's what the Iowa Environmental Council has to say about Hardin (in this <a href="http://www.iaenvironment.org/documents/ImpairmentsonIowaRiver_000.pdf" rel="nofollow">document (PDF)):<p>
 In the upper part of the river in Hardin County, the local communities have worked hard to protect the river corridor through a partnership effort to protect and restore the Iowa River greenbelt. &nbsp;Yet despite these efforts, the Iowa River downstream of Eldora is one of the segments listed on the impaired waters list because of high bacteria levels. Several tributaries of the Iowa River in the area have a history of manure spills and repeated fish kills and this pollution is contributing to the problems in the Iowa River downstream. &nbsp;In fact, the area around the Iowa River in Hardin, Hamilton and Wright Counties has the highest concentration of large livestock confinements anywhere in the state. &nbsp;<p>
Can you really "send the police out and have the offenders arrested," just like that? I doubt it, but it sure is pretty to think so. </p></p></a></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Jaborganic,<p>Welcome aboard. <p>
The Iowa DNR is quite aware of the sad state of waterways in Hardin. <a href="http://programs.iowadnr.com/fishkill/search.aspx" rel="nofollow">Here they document four cases of fish kills in Hardin in 2005 and 2006 alone. <p>
Here's what the Iowa Environmental Council has to say about Hardin (in this <a href="http://www.iaenvironment.org/documents/ImpairmentsonIowaRiver_000.pdf" rel="nofollow">document (PDF)):<p>
 In the upper part of the river in Hardin County, the local communities have worked hard to protect the river corridor through a partnership effort to protect and restore the Iowa River greenbelt. &nbsp;Yet despite these efforts, the Iowa River downstream of Eldora is one of the segments listed on the impaired waters list because of high bacteria levels. Several tributaries of the Iowa River in the area have a history of manure spills and repeated fish kills and this pollution is contributing to the problems in the Iowa River downstream. &nbsp;In fact, the area around the Iowa River in Hardin, Hamilton and Wright Counties has the highest concentration of large livestock confinements anywhere in the state. &nbsp;<p>
Can you really "send the police out and have the offenders arrested," just like that? I doubt it, but it sure is pretty to think so. </p></p></a></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #4 by jaborganic</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 04:29:41 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/4</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Manure spills</strong></p><p>I checked you website listed for the Iowa DNR. &nbsp;On that site, since 1/1/2002, there are only 5 confirmed "hog Confinement" spills listed for the state and none were in Hardin Co. &nbsp;For the fish kills in Hardin Co., 1 - natural environment, 1 - organic waste, 1 - up and down water temperature reducing spawning. &nbsp; If, and I say if, these conditions, dead zones, were hog confinement causes, where is the DNR records to confirm? &nbsp;Your listed site does not support your statements, nor do comments from Iowa Environemental Council. &nbsp;There are lots of cases, in Iowa, of high bacteria levels when there are no animal untils for miles. &nbsp;We hear of more problems with cities dumping their waste materials than farmers. &nbsp;Grey's Lake in I said IN Des Moines is often shut down for bacteria levels, causes by the waste treatment plant. &nbsp;Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Manure spills</strong></p><p>I checked you website listed for the Iowa DNR. &nbsp;On that site, since 1/1/2002, there are only 5 confirmed "hog Confinement" spills listed for the state and none were in Hardin Co. &nbsp;For the fish kills in Hardin Co., 1 - natural environment, 1 - organic waste, 1 - up and down water temperature reducing spawning. &nbsp; If, and I say if, these conditions, dead zones, were hog confinement causes, where is the DNR records to confirm? &nbsp;Your listed site does not support your statements, nor do comments from Iowa Environemental Council. &nbsp;There are lots of cases, in Iowa, of high bacteria levels when there are no animal untils for miles. &nbsp;We hear of more problems with cities dumping their waste materials than farmers. &nbsp;Grey's Lake in I said IN Des Moines is often shut down for bacteria levels, causes by the waste treatment plant. &nbsp;Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #5 by Dairyman</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 05:20:22 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/5</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>The scoop on poop</strong></p><p>I must agree with jaborganic. I live in Hardin County, Iowa and have no recollection of any manure spills in our county. Granted there are people who think there are manure spills as a way to downgrade the hog industry. I think people are more upset with the large corporate hog farming, but it is no different than those farmers who farm thousands of acres. These large farmers pollute more with commercial fertilizer than the hog producers. I was once employed by the meat industry dealing directly with hog producers. Back in the early 90's the porducer base was of older gentlemen in their mid to upper 50's and with decling hog prices they decided to quit raising hogs and concentrate on crops. Several producers told me it was time to let someone else do it. Well, with the farm economy the way it was, no young generation of farmers wanted the risk of large debt, so they decided to stay with crop farming. So the large producer sold their idea to investors and lo and behold the "Mega" hog farm evolved. I guess someone has to raise pork. Needless to say these confinement operation are much more environmentally friend by containing manure instead of the run off from open lots. Do I like the way the industry has gone?....No, but I still like to eat my share of pork. </p><p>
Lately, Iowa experience large rainfall amounts and several cities and towns had to discharge not fully treated sewage. If we crucify the hog producers we need to clamp down on the city municipals.</p><p>
So, where are the manure spills and which river did it occur? Can't be the Iowa River beacuse I live right next to the river. We need to get the DNR invloved.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>The scoop on poop</strong></p><p>I must agree with jaborganic. I live in Hardin County, Iowa and have no recollection of any manure spills in our county. Granted there are people who think there are manure spills as a way to downgrade the hog industry. I think people are more upset with the large corporate hog farming, but it is no different than those farmers who farm thousands of acres. These large farmers pollute more with commercial fertilizer than the hog producers. I was once employed by the meat industry dealing directly with hog producers. Back in the early 90's the porducer base was of older gentlemen in their mid to upper 50's and with decling hog prices they decided to quit raising hogs and concentrate on crops. Several producers told me it was time to let someone else do it. Well, with the farm economy the way it was, no young generation of farmers wanted the risk of large debt, so they decided to stay with crop farming. So the large producer sold their idea to investors and lo and behold the "Mega" hog farm evolved. I guess someone has to raise pork. Needless to say these confinement operation are much more environmentally friend by containing manure instead of the run off from open lots. Do I like the way the industry has gone?....No, but I still like to eat my share of pork. </p><p>
Lately, Iowa experience large rainfall amounts and several cities and towns had to discharge not fully treated sewage. If we crucify the hog producers we need to clamp down on the city municipals.</p><p>
So, where are the manure spills and which river did it occur? Can't be the Iowa River beacuse I live right next to the river. We need to get the DNR invloved.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #6 by Tom Philpott</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 05:25:48 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/6</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Come on, Jaborganic<p>You've chosen a Quixotic task: defending one of the nation's most hog-ravaged counties from charges that its open cesspools are polluting water. Can you be serious? <p>
From a DNR <a href="http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:Ug3orRlSj14J:www.iowadnr.com/news/eco/06aug24eco.pdf+manure+spills+%2B+hardin+county&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=2&amp;gl=us&amp;client=firefox-a" rel="nofollow">document dated Aug. 24, 2006:<p>
A heavy rain can wash manure or other fertilizers, if not stored properly, over land into a stream or into a tile inlet. The manure then travels - sometimes miles - underground in a tile line before it enters a stream, like a recent Hardin County fish kill shows.<p>
The DNR found several thousand minnows, shiners, darters, suckers and chubs along a 1.5-mile stretch of stream located between Radcliffe and Hubbard on Aug. 19. Most likely, a pollutant washed into a tile line during a heavy rainfall, and eventually landed in the stream, a tributary of Honey Creek.<p>
However, the most recent rain in Hardin County occurred a week before a citizen reported the fish kill to the DNR. Because so much time had passed between the fish kill and its discovery, the DNR was unable to find a source of the fish kill.<p>
"That's why we need Iowans to quickly report fish kills," Wade said. "It allows us to get<br>
out in the field to find the source of pollution and work to possibly stop it.<p>
Manure-related fish kills are hardly a rare event in Hardin; and it surely doesn't seem like CAFO owners responsible for them are being hauled away in chains. Getting their knuckles rapped by mildly annoyed DNT officials is more like it. </p></br></p></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Come on, Jaborganic<p>You've chosen a Quixotic task: defending one of the nation's most hog-ravaged counties from charges that its open cesspools are polluting water. Can you be serious? <p>
From a DNR <a href="http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:Ug3orRlSj14J:www.iowadnr.com/news/eco/06aug24eco.pdf+manure+spills+%2B+hardin+county&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=2&amp;gl=us&amp;client=firefox-a" rel="nofollow">document dated Aug. 24, 2006:<p>
A heavy rain can wash manure or other fertilizers, if not stored properly, over land into a stream or into a tile inlet. The manure then travels - sometimes miles - underground in a tile line before it enters a stream, like a recent Hardin County fish kill shows.<p>
The DNR found several thousand minnows, shiners, darters, suckers and chubs along a 1.5-mile stretch of stream located between Radcliffe and Hubbard on Aug. 19. Most likely, a pollutant washed into a tile line during a heavy rainfall, and eventually landed in the stream, a tributary of Honey Creek.<p>
However, the most recent rain in Hardin County occurred a week before a citizen reported the fish kill to the DNR. Because so much time had passed between the fish kill and its discovery, the DNR was unable to find a source of the fish kill.<p>
"That's why we need Iowans to quickly report fish kills," Wade said. "It allows us to get<br>
out in the field to find the source of pollution and work to possibly stop it.<p>
Manure-related fish kills are hardly a rare event in Hardin; and it surely doesn't seem like CAFO owners responsible for them are being hauled away in chains. Getting their knuckles rapped by mildly annoyed DNT officials is more like it. </p></br></p></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #7 by jaborganic</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 05:57:02 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/7</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Hardin Co. Manure spills</strong></p><p>Manure spills are hardly a rare thing in Hardin County-where is the proof? &nbsp;Not on the DNR site.<br>
Show us the proof!</br></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Hardin Co. Manure spills</strong></p><p>Manure spills are hardly a rare thing in Hardin County-where is the proof? &nbsp;Not on the DNR site.<br>
Show us the proof!</br></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #8 by Dairyman</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 05:59:38 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/8</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Fish Kill</strong></p><p>Tom read the article carefully: Let me highlight the key words here. "Can, most likely. The 1.5 mile stream they are talking about is a drainage ditch which is designed to take the water from these fields so the farmer can get a crop. You are assuming too much to put the entire blame on the hog confinements. Note that it entered a tile line which is located in either a corn field or a soybean field. Can you rule out commericial fertilizer? I think not. The crop year of 2006 Central Iowa was dry and was inneed of rain, when the rains did come a lot of nitrogen fertilizer leached from the soil profile. &nbsp;Evidently you are not familiar with the way tile drainage systems work. </p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Fish Kill</strong></p><p>Tom read the article carefully: Let me highlight the key words here. "Can, most likely. The 1.5 mile stream they are talking about is a drainage ditch which is designed to take the water from these fields so the farmer can get a crop. You are assuming too much to put the entire blame on the hog confinements. Note that it entered a tile line which is located in either a corn field or a soybean field. Can you rule out commericial fertilizer? I think not. The crop year of 2006 Central Iowa was dry and was inneed of rain, when the rains did come a lot of nitrogen fertilizer leached from the soil profile. &nbsp;Evidently you are not familiar with the way tile drainage systems work. </p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #9 by Farm Bill Girl</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 08:41:44 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/9</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Outstanding column<p>Your work is so excellent Tom. It is finally great to see a perspective that doesn't just lazily blame ethanol or high corn prices for our higher food costs. Consumers angry about higher food costs shouldn't blame ethanol or corn--they should be aiming at corporate agribusiness's market power and the monopoly power of the supermarkets (Wal-Mart). All the crying by factory farms over higher corn prices shows they are still making millions, mostly on the backs of our independent and diversified family farmers. <p>
Food and Water Watch has just released a report showing how corn prices do not correlate with food prices, and that in times of low corn prices, food costs did not necessarily decrease (though I'm sure agribusiness's profits increased!)<p>
<a href="http://foodandwaterwatch.org/press/releases/corn-rising-grocery-prices-article09132007" rel="nofollow">http://foodandwaterwatch.org/press/releases/corn-rising-g ...</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Outstanding column<p>Your work is so excellent Tom. It is finally great to see a perspective that doesn't just lazily blame ethanol or high corn prices for our higher food costs. Consumers angry about higher food costs shouldn't blame ethanol or corn--they should be aiming at corporate agribusiness's market power and the monopoly power of the supermarkets (Wal-Mart). All the crying by factory farms over higher corn prices shows they are still making millions, mostly on the backs of our independent and diversified family farmers. <p>
Food and Water Watch has just released a report showing how corn prices do not correlate with food prices, and that in times of low corn prices, food costs did not necessarily decrease (though I'm sure agribusiness's profits increased!)<p>
<a href="http://foodandwaterwatch.org/press/releases/corn-rising-grocery-prices-article09132007" rel="nofollow">http://foodandwaterwatch.org/press/releases/corn-rising-g ...</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #10 by Karen Lee Orr</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:05:07 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/10</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Boss Hog: The Smithfield Story<p>America's top pork producer churns out a sea of waste that has destroyed rivers, killed millions of fish and generated one of the largest fines in EPA history. <p>
"Smithfield Foods, the largest and most profitable pork processor in the world, killed 27 million hogs last year. That's a number worth considering. A slaughter-weight hog is fifty percent heavier than a person. The logistical challenge of processing that many pigs each year is roughly equivalent to butchering and boxing the entire human populations of New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, Phoenix, San Antonio, San Diego, Dallas, San Jose, Detroit, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, San Francisco, Columbus, Austin, Memphis, Baltimore, Fort Worth, Charlotte, El Paso, Milwaukee, Seattle, Boston, Denver, Louisville, Washington, D.C., Nashville, Las Vegas, Portland, Oklahoma City and Tucson."<p>
Boss Hog ~ Read the Rolling Stone article here:<br>
<a href="http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/12/boss_hog_rollin_1.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/12/boss_hog_rollin_1 ...</a></br></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Boss Hog: The Smithfield Story<p>America's top pork producer churns out a sea of waste that has destroyed rivers, killed millions of fish and generated one of the largest fines in EPA history. <p>
"Smithfield Foods, the largest and most profitable pork processor in the world, killed 27 million hogs last year. That's a number worth considering. A slaughter-weight hog is fifty percent heavier than a person. The logistical challenge of processing that many pigs each year is roughly equivalent to butchering and boxing the entire human populations of New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, Phoenix, San Antonio, San Diego, Dallas, San Jose, Detroit, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, San Francisco, Columbus, Austin, Memphis, Baltimore, Fort Worth, Charlotte, El Paso, Milwaukee, Seattle, Boston, Denver, Louisville, Washington, D.C., Nashville, Las Vegas, Portland, Oklahoma City and Tucson."<p>
Boss Hog ~ Read the Rolling Stone article here:<br>
<a href="http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/12/boss_hog_rollin_1.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/12/boss_hog_rollin_1 ...</a></br></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #11 by pianoyoga</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 02:50:32 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/11</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>wake up, enviros</strong></p><p>If I remember correctly: &nbsp;in California, with all the irrigated fruit and veggie production, and all the people drinking and pooping in water, the number one user of water from the huge canal system is flood irrigation for grain production - 90% of which goes to feed livestock. &nbsp;It is said that the number one agriculture export of the US is topsoil, something like 1" of topsoil per year. &nbsp;</p><p>
Most of that is coming down the Mississippi River and being ejected into the Gulf of Mexico along with all sorts of toxins and fertilizers, causing this huge dead area which extends over hundreds of square miles. </p><p>
Most of that grain production goes to feed cows and chickens. &nbsp;Most of that meat production occurs in huge mechanized feedlot situations - it is inevitable that there will be pollution problems. </p><p>
All the processing and shipping and refrigeration and retail operations for meat have their own huge energy cost.</p><p>
So, basically we have half the continental US land area converted from natural systems into a fossil energy consumptive eroded, polluting mess. &nbsp;It wasn't so great in the Dust Bowl age of small heroic struggling farmers and it ain't so great today in the age of Smithfield and Tyson and McDonalds and Ethanol. &nbsp;</p><p>
Meat is a good way for a carnivore or omnivore to &nbsp;get a nice iron-rich meal within its local ecosystem. Like mountaintop removal, the US agribusiness system is tolerated because people don't look very carefully. </p><p>
If 7 billion humans must eat like lions and have it delivered in shrink film, we won't be doing it long. &nbsp;Maybe we should bring back that Soylant Green. &nbsp;Real tasty stuff I hear.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>wake up, enviros</strong></p><p>If I remember correctly: &nbsp;in California, with all the irrigated fruit and veggie production, and all the people drinking and pooping in water, the number one user of water from the huge canal system is flood irrigation for grain production - 90% of which goes to feed livestock. &nbsp;It is said that the number one agriculture export of the US is topsoil, something like 1" of topsoil per year. &nbsp;</p><p>
Most of that is coming down the Mississippi River and being ejected into the Gulf of Mexico along with all sorts of toxins and fertilizers, causing this huge dead area which extends over hundreds of square miles. </p><p>
Most of that grain production goes to feed cows and chickens. &nbsp;Most of that meat production occurs in huge mechanized feedlot situations - it is inevitable that there will be pollution problems. </p><p>
All the processing and shipping and refrigeration and retail operations for meat have their own huge energy cost.</p><p>
So, basically we have half the continental US land area converted from natural systems into a fossil energy consumptive eroded, polluting mess. &nbsp;It wasn't so great in the Dust Bowl age of small heroic struggling farmers and it ain't so great today in the age of Smithfield and Tyson and McDonalds and Ethanol. &nbsp;</p><p>
Meat is a good way for a carnivore or omnivore to &nbsp;get a nice iron-rich meal within its local ecosystem. Like mountaintop removal, the US agribusiness system is tolerated because people don't look very carefully. </p><p>
If 7 billion humans must eat like lions and have it delivered in shrink film, we won't be doing it long. &nbsp;Maybe we should bring back that Soylant Green. &nbsp;Real tasty stuff I hear.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #12 by HLisa744</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2007 08:22:24 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/12</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>More poop on the porch...</strong></p><p>We've been saying it forever... it's the middle man that's making all of the money.</p><p>
I grew up on a farm that raised hogs. &nbsp;In confinement buildings. &nbsp;That operation is long gone; &nbsp;the markets described by Dairyman effectively closed it down. &nbsp;Today, if I wanted to get back into a hog operation, my options would be severely limited.</p><p>
You see, without a contract with a processor, it is very difficult to effectively raise and market pigs. &nbsp;And the processors really don't want to spend much time working with a small farm. &nbsp;It's a business decision - we call it "cherry-picking".</p><p>
I've been inside several of the large modern facilities. They aren't uber-large around here, but they are massive. &nbsp;Still, the atmosphere is much healthier for the animals than the operations of 20-30 years ago. &nbsp;Nonetheless, we must deal with the waste - either in methane-producing manure digesters or as a potent source of nitrogen.</p><p>
Nitrogen is Part A of a run-off problem. &nbsp;As Dairyman noted, nitrogen leaching can easily be sourced from either chemical or waste nutrient applications. &nbsp;Part B of the problem is Phosphorus build-up through manure applications... It's a feed issue that some are addressing through an additive called phytase. &nbsp;One farmer I was talking to this fall really didn't want to talk about phosphorus or phytase he felt it was just a d** if you don't d** if you do situation.</p><p>
Phytase/phosphorus aside, between the disappearance of open lagoons, the technological improvements of the buildings, and GPS-assisted nutrient application systems, we have the ability to raise pork better... even at a small scale. &nbsp; But the reality is that we just don't have the market support to make it happen; and that the price of technology makes those improvements cost-prohibitive for many smaller producers. &nbsp;We don't see the same price jumps for live hogs that you see for shrink-wrapped meat.</p><p>
So in the end, we have two looming issues: 1) The Market - for which I have no suggestions. 2) Effective waste management. &nbsp;From algae-based ethanol production to nutrient applications to methane-generating digesters there are better ways to utilize the manure. &nbsp;Let's look for solutions - not choose the finger to stir it with.</p><p>
As a final note: &nbsp;For those who feel hogs should be free-range - please don't go there. &nbsp;They are one of the most environmentally destructive animals I know of - mankind excluded.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>More poop on the porch...</strong></p><p>We've been saying it forever... it's the middle man that's making all of the money.</p><p>
I grew up on a farm that raised hogs. &nbsp;In confinement buildings. &nbsp;That operation is long gone; &nbsp;the markets described by Dairyman effectively closed it down. &nbsp;Today, if I wanted to get back into a hog operation, my options would be severely limited.</p><p>
You see, without a contract with a processor, it is very difficult to effectively raise and market pigs. &nbsp;And the processors really don't want to spend much time working with a small farm. &nbsp;It's a business decision - we call it "cherry-picking".</p><p>
I've been inside several of the large modern facilities. They aren't uber-large around here, but they are massive. &nbsp;Still, the atmosphere is much healthier for the animals than the operations of 20-30 years ago. &nbsp;Nonetheless, we must deal with the waste - either in methane-producing manure digesters or as a potent source of nitrogen.</p><p>
Nitrogen is Part A of a run-off problem. &nbsp;As Dairyman noted, nitrogen leaching can easily be sourced from either chemical or waste nutrient applications. &nbsp;Part B of the problem is Phosphorus build-up through manure applications... It's a feed issue that some are addressing through an additive called phytase. &nbsp;One farmer I was talking to this fall really didn't want to talk about phosphorus or phytase he felt it was just a d** if you don't d** if you do situation.</p><p>
Phytase/phosphorus aside, between the disappearance of open lagoons, the technological improvements of the buildings, and GPS-assisted nutrient application systems, we have the ability to raise pork better... even at a small scale. &nbsp; But the reality is that we just don't have the market support to make it happen; and that the price of technology makes those improvements cost-prohibitive for many smaller producers. &nbsp;We don't see the same price jumps for live hogs that you see for shrink-wrapped meat.</p><p>
So in the end, we have two looming issues: 1) The Market - for which I have no suggestions. 2) Effective waste management. &nbsp;From algae-based ethanol production to nutrient applications to methane-generating digesters there are better ways to utilize the manure. &nbsp;Let's look for solutions - not choose the finger to stir it with.</p><p>
As a final note: &nbsp;For those who feel hogs should be free-range - please don't go there. &nbsp;They are one of the most environmentally destructive animals I know of - mankind excluded.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #13 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:22:28 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/13</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>glass walls</strong></p><p>In their "The Way We Eat: Why Our Food Choices Matter," Peter Singer and Jim Mason list five ethical principles, regarding the production of our food, which "we think most people will share": Transparency, Fairness, Humanity, Social Responsibility, and Needs (preserving life and health) (pages 270-271). &nbsp;The second and fourth are reflected in what Tom Philpott writes in this post:</p><p>
&lt;&lt;<br>
2. Fairness: Producing food should not impose costs on others.</p><p>
The price of food should reflect the full costs of its production. ... if the method of producing food imposes significant costs on others without their consent -- for example, by emitting odors that make it impossible for neighbors to enjoy living in their homes -- then the market has not been operating efficiently and the outcome is unfair to those who are disadvantaged. &nbsp;The food will only be cheap because others are paying part of the cost - unwillingly. &nbsp;Any form of food production that isnot environmentally sustainable will be unfair in this respect, since it will make future generations worse off.</p><p>
...<br>
4. Social Responsibility: Workers should have decent wages and working conditions.<br>
...<br>
&gt;&gt;</p><p>
But the first also strikes me as extremely important:</p><p>
&lt;&lt;<br>
1. Transparency: We have a right to know how our food is produced.</p><p>
If slaughterhouses had glass walls, it's often said, we'd all be vegetarian. &nbsp;That's probably not quite true -- some people can get used to almost anything. &nbsp;But transparency is increasingly recognized as an important ethical principle and a safeguard against bad practice. &nbsp;Consumers should be able to get accurate and unbiased information about what they are buying and how it was produced.<br>
&gt;&gt;</p><p>
Surely one underlying explanation of how the meat industry thrives, in addition to everything Tom has written here, is that those who raise and slaughter livestock are permitted to do what they do essentially in secret.</p><p>
And one activity that those of us who would like people to reduce their consumption of meat might be usefully engaged in is working to have glass walls installed everywhere in the meat industry.</br></br></br></br></br></br></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>glass walls</strong></p><p>In their "The Way We Eat: Why Our Food Choices Matter," Peter Singer and Jim Mason list five ethical principles, regarding the production of our food, which "we think most people will share": Transparency, Fairness, Humanity, Social Responsibility, and Needs (preserving life and health) (pages 270-271). &nbsp;The second and fourth are reflected in what Tom Philpott writes in this post:</p><p>
&lt;&lt;<br>
2. Fairness: Producing food should not impose costs on others.</p><p>
The price of food should reflect the full costs of its production. ... if the method of producing food imposes significant costs on others without their consent -- for example, by emitting odors that make it impossible for neighbors to enjoy living in their homes -- then the market has not been operating efficiently and the outcome is unfair to those who are disadvantaged. &nbsp;The food will only be cheap because others are paying part of the cost - unwillingly. &nbsp;Any form of food production that isnot environmentally sustainable will be unfair in this respect, since it will make future generations worse off.</p><p>
...<br>
4. Social Responsibility: Workers should have decent wages and working conditions.<br>
...<br>
&gt;&gt;</p><p>
But the first also strikes me as extremely important:</p><p>
&lt;&lt;<br>
1. Transparency: We have a right to know how our food is produced.</p><p>
If slaughterhouses had glass walls, it's often said, we'd all be vegetarian. &nbsp;That's probably not quite true -- some people can get used to almost anything. &nbsp;But transparency is increasingly recognized as an important ethical principle and a safeguard against bad practice. &nbsp;Consumers should be able to get accurate and unbiased information about what they are buying and how it was produced.<br>
&gt;&gt;</p><p>
Surely one underlying explanation of how the meat industry thrives, in addition to everything Tom has written here, is that those who raise and slaughter livestock are permitted to do what they do essentially in secret.</p><p>
And one activity that those of us who would like people to reduce their consumption of meat might be usefully engaged in is working to have glass walls installed everywhere in the meat industry.</br></br></br></br></br></br></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #14 by BonnieWilliamson</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 01:49:10 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/14</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Sustainability?????  I don't think so!<p>Regardless of any specific details about what is ACTUALLY going on in Iowa it seems that a very important issue is being missed here! &nbsp;As shepherds of our earth, any type of "confined animal" operations is both inhumane and unhealthy for us and the animals they produce. &nbsp;Holding true to nature helps promote healthy animals, which keeps all those added antibiotics &amp; hormones out of our food. &nbsp;Remember what they eat you eat and when an animal is "fattened up" by corn and grains rather than grazing on natural green grasses and plants like nature intended means you get "fattened up" too! &nbsp;Think of all those wonderfully overweight americans and what would happen to all those pot bellies if we consumed our food as nature intended! &nbsp;Johnny Bowden has a wonderful book out called "The 150 Healthiest Foods on Earth." &nbsp;It is by far the best nurtition book I have read to date. <a href="http://www.jonnybowden.com/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jonnybowden.com/index.html &nbsp;He has a wonderful section on meat and dairy, I highly recommend everyone looks into it, you may be shocked by this book!<p>
Speak your mind with the almighty dollar.....buy organic, grass fed, free range and fair trade! &nbsp;Stay away from conglomerates like Tyson &amp; Smithfield. &nbsp;Most local grocers offer natural and organic options, choose those instead! &nbsp;Vote with your dollar, it speaks louder than the politicians do anyways!</p></a></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Sustainability?????  I don't think so!<p>Regardless of any specific details about what is ACTUALLY going on in Iowa it seems that a very important issue is being missed here! &nbsp;As shepherds of our earth, any type of "confined animal" operations is both inhumane and unhealthy for us and the animals they produce. &nbsp;Holding true to nature helps promote healthy animals, which keeps all those added antibiotics &amp; hormones out of our food. &nbsp;Remember what they eat you eat and when an animal is "fattened up" by corn and grains rather than grazing on natural green grasses and plants like nature intended means you get "fattened up" too! &nbsp;Think of all those wonderfully overweight americans and what would happen to all those pot bellies if we consumed our food as nature intended! &nbsp;Johnny Bowden has a wonderful book out called "The 150 Healthiest Foods on Earth." &nbsp;It is by far the best nurtition book I have read to date. <a href="http://www.jonnybowden.com/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jonnybowden.com/index.html &nbsp;He has a wonderful section on meat and dairy, I highly recommend everyone looks into it, you may be shocked by this book!<p>
Speak your mind with the almighty dollar.....buy organic, grass fed, free range and fair trade! &nbsp;Stay away from conglomerates like Tyson &amp; Smithfield. &nbsp;Most local grocers offer natural and organic options, choose those instead! &nbsp;Vote with your dollar, it speaks louder than the politicians do anyways!</p></a></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #15 by CyberBrook</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 05:01:04 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/hog-futures/15</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Peace for pigs, humans, and other animals!<p><b>Peace for pigs, humans, and other animals!<p>
<a href="http://www.ivu.org/members/globalwarming.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Meat Eating and Global Warming<br>
<a href="http://www.ivu.org/members/globalwarming.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.ivu.org/members/globalwarming.html<p>
[Animals] were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or women for men.<br>
Alice Walker<p>
The time will come when people such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of people.<br>
Leonardo da Vinci<p>
Animals raised for food endure great suffering in their housing, transport, feeding and slaughter.<br>
J Motavalli, So You're an Environmentalist; Why Are You Still Eating Meat?<p>
I feel very deeply about vegetarianism and the animal kingdom. It was my dog Boycott who led me to question the right of humans to eat other sentient beings.<br>
Cesar Chavez, United Farm Workers<p>
I encourage the Tibetan people and all people to move toward a vegetarian diet that doesn't cause suffering.<br>
Dalai Lama<p>
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. <br>
Mohandas Gandhi<p>
The human appetite for animal flesh is a driving force behind virtually every major category of environmental damage now threatening the human future: deforestation, erosion, fresh water scarcity, air and water pollution, climate change, biodiversity loss, social injustice, the destabilization of communities, and the spread of disease. <br>
World Watch<p>
Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.<br>
Albert Einstein<p>
There is a direct relationship between eating meat and the environment.<br>
Andrea Gordon, If You Recycle, Why Are You Eating Meat?<p>
If anyone wants to save the planet, all they have to do is just stop eating meat. That's the single most important thing you could do.<br>
Paul McCartney<p>
<a href="http://www.brook.com/veg" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Eco-Eating: Eating as if the Earth Matters<br>
<a href="http://www.brook.com/veg" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.brook.com/veg <br>
</br></a></br></a></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></a></br></a></p></b></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Peace for pigs, humans, and other animals!<p><b>Peace for pigs, humans, and other animals!<p>
<a href="http://www.ivu.org/members/globalwarming.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Meat Eating and Global Warming<br>
<a href="http://www.ivu.org/members/globalwarming.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.ivu.org/members/globalwarming.html<p>
[Animals] were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or women for men.<br>
Alice Walker<p>
The time will come when people such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of people.<br>
Leonardo da Vinci<p>
Animals raised for food endure great suffering in their housing, transport, feeding and slaughter.<br>
J Motavalli, So You're an Environmentalist; Why Are You Still Eating Meat?<p>
I feel very deeply about vegetarianism and the animal kingdom. It was my dog Boycott who led me to question the right of humans to eat other sentient beings.<br>
Cesar Chavez, United Farm Workers<p>
I encourage the Tibetan people and all people to move toward a vegetarian diet that doesn't cause suffering.<br>
Dalai Lama<p>
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. <br>
Mohandas Gandhi<p>
The human appetite for animal flesh is a driving force behind virtually every major category of environmental damage now threatening the human future: deforestation, erosion, fresh water scarcity, air and water pollution, climate change, biodiversity loss, social injustice, the destabilization of communities, and the spread of disease. <br>
World Watch<p>
Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.<br>
Albert Einstein<p>
There is a direct relationship between eating meat and the environment.<br>
Andrea Gordon, If You Recycle, Why Are You Eating Meat?<p>
If anyone wants to save the planet, all they have to do is just stop eating meat. That's the single most important thing you could do.<br>
Paul McCartney<p>
<a href="http://www.brook.com/veg" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Eco-Eating: Eating as if the Earth Matters<br>
<a href="http://www.brook.com/veg" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.brook.com/veg <br>
</br></a></br></a></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></br></p></a></br></a></p></b></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
 </channel>
</rss>