<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for A coalition plugs (ha ha) for plug-in hybrids]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by David Roberts http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/ Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:36:11 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/1 We miss nothing!

http://www.grist.org/news/daily/2006/01/26/5/index.html

www.grist.org

]]> We miss nothing!

http://www.grist.org/news/daily/2006/01/26/5/index.html

www.grist.org

]]> Comment #2 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/ Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:58:35 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/2 Print must have been too small

I see it now.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Print must have been too small

I see it now.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Comment #3 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/ Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:49:48 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/3 Here they are.

"Member city Austin, Texas, led the way on Tuesday by vowing to buy 600 of the next-gen green vehicles as soon as they come to market."

Adding an extra battery pack, prohibitively expensive?  Hmmm.

Here's the 150 mpg plugin Prius.  

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2005/12/17/1453310.html

Toyota's excuse to diss this idea to the Prius Owners group members who are doing it themselves was that extra battery packs would void the warranty.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Here they are.

"Member city Austin, Texas, led the way on Tuesday by vowing to buy 600 of the next-gen green vehicles as soon as they come to market."

Adding an extra battery pack, prohibitively expensive?  Hmmm.

Here's the 150 mpg plugin Prius.  

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2005/12/17/1453310.html

Toyota's excuse to diss this idea to the Prius Owners group members who are doing it themselves was that extra battery packs would void the warranty.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #4 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/ Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:11:39 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/4 Prius owners plugin

http://www.calcars.org/priusplus.html

Whoops forgot the link to the Prius owners efforts at plugin hybrids.

And here's the whole run down on the lithium ion design.  It includes a charger, a 9 kwh battery pack, and a different controller.

http://www.edrivesystems.com/faq.html

What would the cost be if  cities and states got together and ordered 60,000 units instead of 600?  

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Prius owners plugin

http://www.calcars.org/priusplus.html

Whoops forgot the link to the Prius owners efforts at plugin hybrids.

And here's the whole run down on the lithium ion design.  It includes a charger, a 9 kwh battery pack, and a different controller.

http://www.edrivesystems.com/faq.html

What would the cost be if  cities and states got together and ordered 60,000 units instead of 600?  

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #5 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/ Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:38:14 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/5 Keeping my fingers crossed

I still suspect that modifying the Prius is a blind alley because of cost. Getting cost down is what it is all about at this point.

For short trips in all electric mode (no gas) you can get an equivalent gas mileage of about 120 mpg with the right car design. So, even with coal fired electricity, you are getting three times the mileage, or two thirds as much CO2 released as a 40 mpg car. That is about the same as biodiesel. With a gas fired plant, you are better than biodiesel and with hydro, wind, or solar, you really are carbon neutral. Electric plug-ins could kill biodiesel for passenger cars, limiting it to truck use until they get the algae thing going.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Keeping my fingers crossed

I still suspect that modifying the Prius is a blind alley because of cost. Getting cost down is what it is all about at this point.

For short trips in all electric mode (no gas) you can get an equivalent gas mileage of about 120 mpg with the right car design. So, even with coal fired electricity, you are getting three times the mileage, or two thirds as much CO2 released as a 40 mpg car. That is about the same as biodiesel. With a gas fired plant, you are better than biodiesel and with hydro, wind, or solar, you really are carbon neutral. Electric plug-ins could kill biodiesel for passenger cars, limiting it to truck use until they get the algae thing going.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Comment #6 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/ Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:18:02 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/6 I agree

Starting from scratch, especially with the new nano-phosphate lithium-ion batteries (manufactured in the US), and designing from the ground up could beat the plugin Prius.

I would prefer that also.   And I really like the conversion of used vehicles at least for the transition.  Gas powered front wheels and electric rear wheel conversion is  a great first phase transition plugin hybrid vehicle.

It would also be a great selling point of this plan to give US auto manufactureres the job to supply city, state, and federal vehicle fleet replacements.

A good plan for these fleet vehicles would be a  plugin design that mainly uses electricity with a small removable backup generator that is only used when charging is impossible.  In cases where operation on long trips or in remote areas prevent recharge.

Mass production of batteries, controllers, chargers, generators, and motors as well as lighter, stronfer, safer body/frames would bring the cost in line with regular fas powered vehicles.

How big an order would be needed over the long term to insure the economies of nass production?  Maybe a 100,000 vehicle per year order from local, state, and federal government..that would gradually encourage the public to buy even more as the price dropped and practicallity was demonstrated.

Over a 10 year period it could transform energy use, a shift from oil to electricity.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> I agree

Starting from scratch, especially with the new nano-phosphate lithium-ion batteries (manufactured in the US), and designing from the ground up could beat the plugin Prius.

I would prefer that also.   And I really like the conversion of used vehicles at least for the transition.  Gas powered front wheels and electric rear wheel conversion is  a great first phase transition plugin hybrid vehicle.

It would also be a great selling point of this plan to give US auto manufactureres the job to supply city, state, and federal vehicle fleet replacements.

A good plan for these fleet vehicles would be a  plugin design that mainly uses electricity with a small removable backup generator that is only used when charging is impossible.  In cases where operation on long trips or in remote areas prevent recharge.

Mass production of batteries, controllers, chargers, generators, and motors as well as lighter, stronfer, safer body/frames would bring the cost in line with regular fas powered vehicles.

How big an order would be needed over the long term to insure the economies of nass production?  Maybe a 100,000 vehicle per year order from local, state, and federal government..that would gradually encourage the public to buy even more as the price dropped and practicallity was demonstrated.

Over a 10 year period it could transform energy use, a shift from oil to electricity.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #7 by jdhlax http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/ Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:17:36 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/7 Why Not?

"The tax credit for buying hybrid cars is completely unnecessary."  Driving is completely unnecessary, but at least giving discounts for buying a car that consumes less fuel and pollutes less is good for the environment.  Opposing good subsidies like this is a highly anti-environmental position and shows the great deficiencies of libertarianism.

Jeff Hoffman

]]> Why Not?

"The tax credit for buying hybrid cars is completely unnecessary."  Driving is completely unnecessary, but at least giving discounts for buying a car that consumes less fuel and pollutes less is good for the environment.  Opposing good subsidies like this is a highly anti-environmental position and shows the great deficiencies of libertarianism.

Jeff Hoffman

]]> Comment #8 by Ginny http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/ Tue, 31 Jan 2006 05:01:30 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/high-oil-prices-make-for-the-strangest-bedfellows/8 Funny New Flash Cartoon About Exxon's Greed

Check out this funny new flash cartoon: http://www.ExxposeExxon.com/movie

Today Exxon announced that it made a net profit of $36.1 BILLION DOLLARS in 2005!!
<http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/30/news/companies/exxon_earns>

While Americans were suffering through hurricanes Katrina and Rita and sky-high spikes in oil prices last year, ExxonMobil was busy pulling down the largest profit in the history of corporate America!!

The flash cartoon was put out by the Exxpose Exxon coalition to try to pressure Exxon to stop sabotaging efforts to fight global warming, quit lobbying to open the Arctic Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling, and get the company to use some of their huge profits to invest in renewable energy like wind and solar.

ExxonMobil is such a huge company.  I think we should all post this  (http://www.ExxposeExxon.com/movie) on our own blogs and websites to show our support for the fight!


]]> Funny New Flash Cartoon About Exxon's Greed

Check out this funny new flash cartoon: http://www.ExxposeExxon.com/movie

Today Exxon announced that it made a net profit of $36.1 BILLION DOLLARS in 2005!!
<http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/30/news/companies/exxon_earns>

While Americans were suffering through hurricanes Katrina and Rita and sky-high spikes in oil prices last year, ExxonMobil was busy pulling down the largest profit in the history of corporate America!!

The flash cartoon was put out by the Exxpose Exxon coalition to try to pressure Exxon to stop sabotaging efforts to fight global warming, quit lobbying to open the Arctic Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling, and get the company to use some of their huge profits to invest in renewable energy like wind and solar.

ExxonMobil is such a huge company.  I think we should all post this  (http://www.ExxposeExxon.com/movie) on our own blogs and websites to show our support for the fight!


]]>