<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Dingell floats it; Boucher knocks it down]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by odograph http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/ Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:37:05 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/1 tipping

I think I've seen things tipping that way ... not to say we're there yet.

]]> tipping

I think I've seen things tipping that way ... not to say we're there yet.

]]> Comment #2 by Charles Barton http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/ Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:50:13 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/2 carbon taxes and social unequalty

Carbon taxes will hurt the poor, but will not stop the rich from flying corperate jets.  

Charles Barton

]]> carbon taxes and social unequalty

Carbon taxes will hurt the poor, but will not stop the rich from flying corperate jets.  

Charles Barton

]]> Comment #3 by GreyFlcn http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/ Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:52:17 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/3 Well basically

Basically it sounds like he's promoting a ceiling price on carbon trading.

The effect is to bring some long range planning towards carbon reductions.

"Worst comes to worst, we'll pay this much."

]]> Well basically

Basically it sounds like he's promoting a ceiling price on carbon trading.

The effect is to bring some long range planning towards carbon reductions.

"Worst comes to worst, we'll pay this much."

]]> Comment #4 by GreyFlcn http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/ Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:53:44 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/4 Or basically

Or basically the government would offer a fixed rate price which is higher than the going market price.

Kind of like the "Buy Now" feature on EBay :P

Costs a bit more, but it's a lot more reliable.

]]> Or basically

Or basically the government would offer a fixed rate price which is higher than the going market price.

Kind of like the "Buy Now" feature on EBay :P

Costs a bit more, but it's a lot more reliable.

]]> Comment #5 by carbet http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/ Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:13:29 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/5 better Still

It is a start and will contribute to the thinking which is environment before profit

]]> better Still

It is a start and will contribute to the thinking which is environment before profit

]]> Comment #6 by odograph http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/ Thu, 21 Jun 2007 22:50:55 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/6 abstract taxes

"Carbon taxes will hurt the poor, but will not stop the rich from flying corperate jets."

I don't think an abstract tax idea (like a "carbon tax") can hurt anyone.  It is all in how it is implemented.

If it was implemented as a per gallon tax on fuel types, for instance, it would be relatively easy to target jets.

]]> abstract taxes

"Carbon taxes will hurt the poor, but will not stop the rich from flying corperate jets."

I don't think an abstract tax idea (like a "carbon tax") can hurt anyone.  It is all in how it is implemented.

If it was implemented as a per gallon tax on fuel types, for instance, it would be relatively easy to target jets.

]]> Comment #7 by Bikechess http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/ Fri, 22 Jun 2007 03:08:09 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/7 C taxes : progressive or regressive?

Raw Carbon taxes are regressive - while the rich use more energy (and pollute more...), the poor would have a harder time reducing the percentage of their costs that go to energy.

That said, what the government actually does with the money matters greatly.  What if the government kept no money for "itself" but instead gave every taxpayer back an equal Carbon return.  Then the poor would actually make money off the system - but still have the incentive to reduce their emissions.

http://www.FairPriceEnergy.com for more...

]]> C taxes : progressive or regressive?

Raw Carbon taxes are regressive - while the rich use more energy (and pollute more...), the poor would have a harder time reducing the percentage of their costs that go to energy.

That said, what the government actually does with the money matters greatly.  What if the government kept no money for "itself" but instead gave every taxpayer back an equal Carbon return.  Then the poor would actually make money off the system - but still have the incentive to reduce their emissions.

http://www.FairPriceEnergy.com for more...

]]> Comment #8 by odograph http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/ Fri, 22 Jun 2007 03:16:25 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/8 adjustment

Isn't the argument that "the poor have already adjusted" a good one?

The poor are not the cash-strapped SUV drivers.  Those are middle-class types making a gambit for higher social position through consumption.

What we want are taxes that encourage the great bulk of the middle class to give that up.

In that sense, the rich-vs-poor thing is a false dichotomy.

]]> adjustment

Isn't the argument that "the poor have already adjusted" a good one?

The poor are not the cash-strapped SUV drivers.  Those are middle-class types making a gambit for higher social position through consumption.

What we want are taxes that encourage the great bulk of the middle class to give that up.

In that sense, the rich-vs-poor thing is a false dichotomy.

]]> Comment #9 by Charles Barton http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/ Fri, 22 Jun 2007 05:35:30 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/9 regressive taxation verses luxury tax and mandates

Carbon taxes are inevitably regressive.

Tax engine power and displacement.  Tax large homes.  Tax business Jets.   Tax heated swimming pools.  

Mandate gas milage.  Mandate plug in hybreds. Mandate truck milage performance.  Mandate plug in hybred trucks.    

Charles Barton

]]> regressive taxation verses luxury tax and mandates

Carbon taxes are inevitably regressive.

Tax engine power and displacement.  Tax large homes.  Tax business Jets.   Tax heated swimming pools.  

Mandate gas milage.  Mandate plug in hybreds. Mandate truck milage performance.  Mandate plug in hybred trucks.    

Charles Barton

]]> Comment #10 by noolympics http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/ Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:55:02 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/has-carbon-tax-entered-the-world-of-the-possible/10 A Revenue-neutral Carbon Tax is Efficient

Impose taxes on polluting commodities (cars, heavy appliances, products requiring a lot of energy to produce, etc) and at the same time reduce taxes on non-polluting commodities (bed sheets, food items). This not only controls carbon dioxide emission, but also makes sure that consumers do not pay additional tax money as a whole.

(Perhaps the Federal government can collect the pollution tax and redistribute the tax money to different states so that the sales tax rates in each state can be reduced! Or each state changes their sales tax system so that polluting products are charged higher sales tax rates whereas non-polluting products are charged lower sales tax rates.)

This is the idea of the so-called "revenue-neutrality" in economics!

Oftentimes the tax incidence falls on both the consumers and producers. The result is, consumers of polluting commodities will be paying higher taxes, but consumers of non-polluting commodities will be paying lower taxes. Producers of polluting commodities will be paying higher taxes if they do not attempt to invent new technologies to fight pollution. This gives them some incentives to improve to become "non-polluting" producers.

WIN-WIN!

freehk.org | chinasick.blogspot.com | noolympics.blogspot.com

]]> A Revenue-neutral Carbon Tax is Efficient

Impose taxes on polluting commodities (cars, heavy appliances, products requiring a lot of energy to produce, etc) and at the same time reduce taxes on non-polluting commodities (bed sheets, food items). This not only controls carbon dioxide emission, but also makes sure that consumers do not pay additional tax money as a whole.

(Perhaps the Federal government can collect the pollution tax and redistribute the tax money to different states so that the sales tax rates in each state can be reduced! Or each state changes their sales tax system so that polluting products are charged higher sales tax rates whereas non-polluting products are charged lower sales tax rates.)

This is the idea of the so-called "revenue-neutrality" in economics!

Oftentimes the tax incidence falls on both the consumers and producers. The result is, consumers of polluting commodities will be paying higher taxes, but consumers of non-polluting commodities will be paying lower taxes. Producers of polluting commodities will be paying higher taxes if they do not attempt to invent new technologies to fight pollution. This gives them some incentives to improve to become "non-polluting" producers.

WIN-WIN!

freehk.org | chinasick.blogspot.com | noolympics.blogspot.com

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