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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Corporations need to be encouraged when they embrace environmental talk, not bashed]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by chris@organicmatter</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/greenwashing/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:16:12 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/greenwashing/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Absolutely<p>After writing about <a href="http://www.organicmatter.net/node/79" rel="nofollow">Wal-Mart's recent donation to preserve land equal to their literal footprint, I was skeptical for obvious reasons - the donation was a drop in the bucket, and I couldn't help the feeling that something fishy was going on. &nbsp;At the same time, for all their [many many many] faults, when these corporate giants do something right, they ought to hear something positive from the environmentally minded community about their actions.<p>
I doubt there are many Grist readers who shop at Wal-Mart regularly, and I'm not encouraging anyone to start, but if we decry them even when they take steps to preserve wilderness, what incentive do they have to continue in a greener direction?

<p><a href="http://www.organicmatter.net" rel="nofollow">Organic Matter: Blogging the environment</a></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Absolutely<p>After writing about <a href="http://www.organicmatter.net/node/79" rel="nofollow">Wal-Mart's recent donation to preserve land equal to their literal footprint, I was skeptical for obvious reasons - the donation was a drop in the bucket, and I couldn't help the feeling that something fishy was going on. &nbsp;At the same time, for all their [many many many] faults, when these corporate giants do something right, they ought to hear something positive from the environmentally minded community about their actions.<p>
I doubt there are many Grist readers who shop at Wal-Mart regularly, and I'm not encouraging anyone to start, but if we decry them even when they take steps to preserve wilderness, what incentive do they have to continue in a greener direction?

<p><a href="http://www.organicmatter.net" rel="nofollow">Organic Matter: Blogging the environment</a></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by jdhlax</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/greenwashing/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:11:05 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/greenwashing/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>The Danger Of Greenwashing</strong></p><p>Dave and Chris make good points, but two things jump out at me.</p><p>
First Dave, the list is about the difference between what certain corporations say and what they do, not about which ones are harming the environment more.</p><p>
Second and more importantly, while I agree that anything that can be done to get corporations to stop acting in ecologcially and environmentally harmful ways should be done. &nbsp;However, it's harmful to allow corporations to claim they're doing something they're not, because if people believe them, people won't fight the harms they're doing.</p><p>
So, we have to walk the fine line between encouragement and criticism. &nbsp;It's an oversimplification to think that encouraging corporations in order to get them to do good without criticizing them when they lie about it will have a positive effect. &nbsp;Very unlikely.</p>
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				<p><strong>The Danger Of Greenwashing</strong></p><p>Dave and Chris make good points, but two things jump out at me.</p><p>
First Dave, the list is about the difference between what certain corporations say and what they do, not about which ones are harming the environment more.</p><p>
Second and more importantly, while I agree that anything that can be done to get corporations to stop acting in ecologcially and environmentally harmful ways should be done. &nbsp;However, it's harmful to allow corporations to claim they're doing something they're not, because if people believe them, people won't fight the harms they're doing.</p><p>
So, we have to walk the fine line between encouragement and criticism. &nbsp;It's an oversimplification to think that encouraging corporations in order to get them to do good without criticizing them when they lie about it will have a positive effect. &nbsp;Very unlikely.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by bhosey</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/greenwashing/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2005 04:15:27 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/greenwashing/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Carrot and Stick and Corporate Kindergarten</strong></p><p>Good points all, as we struggle how best to dispense carrot for good behavior and stick for bad. &nbsp;Most of the time I'm so disgusted with the mendacious, outright malevolent behavior of corporations that all I want is to reach for a stick and the bigger the better. &nbsp;Unfortunately though, we are fighting this case in the court of public opinion as well as the courts of law and nobody likes a scold. &nbsp;So every now and again if some corporation's pr team puts out a release that they've done something eco-friendly, we should balance out our usual stick with an appropriate amount of carrot. &nbsp;I do however agree with jdhlax that if you are going to dispense some reward, it had better be earned. &nbsp;Let's not sell our praise too cheaply. &nbsp;People may not like a scold, but they certainly don't respect a chump either.</p><p>
In interacting with corporations we're obviously dealing with entities who have the mindsets of five-year olds (very crafty, devious five-year olds, but children nevertheless). &nbsp;The way they see things they are the center of the universe, their time-horizon stretches all the way to lunch or maybe naptime and they don't like being told "no". &nbsp;With this in mind perhaps in teaching corporations how to think and act green, we should aim for the model of a Corporate Kindergarten &#169;. &nbsp;Remember in kindergarten when everyone got a star to stick on their desks even whem all they did was show up at the right time with all articles of clothing on the appropriate limbs? &nbsp;The kids who really excelled would get a gold star, those who were average would get silver and those who managed to quietly remain seated would get bronze. &nbsp;Only if you were very very bad did you get no star and sent to the principal where you might get the stick (I went to elementary school in Texas). &nbsp;</p><p>
Yes, it's frustrating to have to jump up and down like it's Mardi Gras when all Walmart did was the bare minimum, and that because they were really trying to distract us from the bad things they did. &nbsp;I wish we had better better corporations, just like teachers wish for better students. &nbsp;As Dave pointed out though, it's much more practical to work with you've got. &nbsp;Give Walmart their bronze or maybe silver star but do also remind them that the principal is right down the hall.</p>
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				<p><strong>Carrot and Stick and Corporate Kindergarten</strong></p><p>Good points all, as we struggle how best to dispense carrot for good behavior and stick for bad. &nbsp;Most of the time I'm so disgusted with the mendacious, outright malevolent behavior of corporations that all I want is to reach for a stick and the bigger the better. &nbsp;Unfortunately though, we are fighting this case in the court of public opinion as well as the courts of law and nobody likes a scold. &nbsp;So every now and again if some corporation's pr team puts out a release that they've done something eco-friendly, we should balance out our usual stick with an appropriate amount of carrot. &nbsp;I do however agree with jdhlax that if you are going to dispense some reward, it had better be earned. &nbsp;Let's not sell our praise too cheaply. &nbsp;People may not like a scold, but they certainly don't respect a chump either.</p><p>
In interacting with corporations we're obviously dealing with entities who have the mindsets of five-year olds (very crafty, devious five-year olds, but children nevertheless). &nbsp;The way they see things they are the center of the universe, their time-horizon stretches all the way to lunch or maybe naptime and they don't like being told "no". &nbsp;With this in mind perhaps in teaching corporations how to think and act green, we should aim for the model of a Corporate Kindergarten &#169;. &nbsp;Remember in kindergarten when everyone got a star to stick on their desks even whem all they did was show up at the right time with all articles of clothing on the appropriate limbs? &nbsp;The kids who really excelled would get a gold star, those who were average would get silver and those who managed to quietly remain seated would get bronze. &nbsp;Only if you were very very bad did you get no star and sent to the principal where you might get the stick (I went to elementary school in Texas). &nbsp;</p><p>
Yes, it's frustrating to have to jump up and down like it's Mardi Gras when all Walmart did was the bare minimum, and that because they were really trying to distract us from the bad things they did. &nbsp;I wish we had better better corporations, just like teachers wish for better students. &nbsp;As Dave pointed out though, it's much more practical to work with you've got. &nbsp;Give Walmart their bronze or maybe silver star but do also remind them that the principal is right down the hall.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by AndrewEcopledge</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/greenwashing/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:17:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/greenwashing/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Greenwashing is Mental Pollution<p>It's too bad that Dave Roberts got his panties into such a bunch when he read the intro to <a href="http://thegreenlife.org/dontbefooled.html" rel="nofollow">The Green Life's report on greenwashing. &nbsp;He would have done better by reading the whole report and trying to understand the problem it describes.<p>
Dave is upset that TGL's report doesn't discuss companies that "don't give a damn about the environment." &nbsp;Well Dave, I have a clue for you: the report isn't supposed to cover the worst overall environmentally destructive companies. &nbsp;It's targeting a specific issue: greenwashing. &nbsp;You might as well get upset that a report on mercury emissions doesn't discuss global warming. &nbsp;"But global warming is such a bigger problem!" you say. &nbsp;But that's not what the report is about, Dave.<p>
In this case, the report is specifically about <a href="http://www.answers.com/greenwash&amp;r=67" rel="nofollow">greenwashing, &nbsp;the dissemination of misleading information by an organization to conceal its abuse of the environment in order to present a positive public image.<p>
Greenwashing by itself doesn't pollute the Earth. &nbsp;But it does something that's arguably worse: it pollutes our minds. &nbsp;When George W. Bush talks about "Clear Skies" and "Healthy Forests" he is disrupting the ecology of our language and thoughts. &nbsp;He is making it harder for us to understand and think about the environmental problems that we face today, and that makes it much much harder to address those problems.<p>
Corporate greenwashers do the same thing, and their cool-aid even works on the readers (and editors!) of Grist. &nbsp;So the fact that Wal-Mart sets aside a few acres of land for every new store it builds is supposed to be a good thing? &nbsp;Have you considered how many thousands of acres of land are undoubtedly destroyed and polluted to fill that store with products every year, or the thousands of pounds of CO2 dumped into the atmosphere because people drive to the Wal-Mart instead of walking to their corner store?<p>
Those few preserved acres don't make Wal-Mart a responsible citizen. &nbsp;And patting them on the back for what is essentially an empty gesture makes it easier for them to continue in their destructive ways.<p>
It's great to be generous, but our generosity has to be based on truth. &nbsp;When companies mess with the truth ---- when they claim to be helping but are actually harming the environment --- they need to be called out. &nbsp;Even if another company is polluting the Earth more, the greenwasher deserves special attention, because they are polluting the Earth and our minds as well.</p></p></p></p></a></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Greenwashing is Mental Pollution<p>It's too bad that Dave Roberts got his panties into such a bunch when he read the intro to <a href="http://thegreenlife.org/dontbefooled.html" rel="nofollow">The Green Life's report on greenwashing. &nbsp;He would have done better by reading the whole report and trying to understand the problem it describes.<p>
Dave is upset that TGL's report doesn't discuss companies that "don't give a damn about the environment." &nbsp;Well Dave, I have a clue for you: the report isn't supposed to cover the worst overall environmentally destructive companies. &nbsp;It's targeting a specific issue: greenwashing. &nbsp;You might as well get upset that a report on mercury emissions doesn't discuss global warming. &nbsp;"But global warming is such a bigger problem!" you say. &nbsp;But that's not what the report is about, Dave.<p>
In this case, the report is specifically about <a href="http://www.answers.com/greenwash&amp;r=67" rel="nofollow">greenwashing, &nbsp;the dissemination of misleading information by an organization to conceal its abuse of the environment in order to present a positive public image.<p>
Greenwashing by itself doesn't pollute the Earth. &nbsp;But it does something that's arguably worse: it pollutes our minds. &nbsp;When George W. Bush talks about "Clear Skies" and "Healthy Forests" he is disrupting the ecology of our language and thoughts. &nbsp;He is making it harder for us to understand and think about the environmental problems that we face today, and that makes it much much harder to address those problems.<p>
Corporate greenwashers do the same thing, and their cool-aid even works on the readers (and editors!) of Grist. &nbsp;So the fact that Wal-Mart sets aside a few acres of land for every new store it builds is supposed to be a good thing? &nbsp;Have you considered how many thousands of acres of land are undoubtedly destroyed and polluted to fill that store with products every year, or the thousands of pounds of CO2 dumped into the atmosphere because people drive to the Wal-Mart instead of walking to their corner store?<p>
Those few preserved acres don't make Wal-Mart a responsible citizen. &nbsp;And patting them on the back for what is essentially an empty gesture makes it easier for them to continue in their destructive ways.<p>
It's great to be generous, but our generosity has to be based on truth. &nbsp;When companies mess with the truth ---- when they claim to be helping but are actually harming the environment --- they need to be called out. &nbsp;Even if another company is polluting the Earth more, the greenwasher deserves special attention, because they are polluting the Earth and our minds as well.</p></p></p></p></a></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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