<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Federal spending, quick!]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Jon Rynn http://www.grist.org/article/green-collar-stimulus/ Wed, 22 Oct 2008 07:56:30 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/green-collar-stimulus/1 rail + grid + retrofitting + solar panels

Rail, rail, and more rail: a) a national system of high-speed rail, b) light rail where appropriate in cities, c) expanding funding for transit systems (because they are having to cut back service because of higher oil prices and recession, d) subsidizing electrification and expansion of freight rail

Nationalizing, or nationalizing the financing of, the national electrical grid.  Subsidize wind farms that attach to the grid, so that they provide baseload, eventually.

"Classic" green-collar retrofitting jobs, maybe including installing geothermal heat pumps (including training)

Subsidize/finance solar panel installations (as in the Berkeley program), including training. Maybe even have the government help finance a bunch of silicon purification plants, which are the main roadblock/expense of solar panels.

]]> rail + grid + retrofitting + solar panels

Rail, rail, and more rail: a) a national system of high-speed rail, b) light rail where appropriate in cities, c) expanding funding for transit systems (because they are having to cut back service because of higher oil prices and recession, d) subsidizing electrification and expansion of freight rail

Nationalizing, or nationalizing the financing of, the national electrical grid.  Subsidize wind farms that attach to the grid, so that they provide baseload, eventually.

"Classic" green-collar retrofitting jobs, maybe including installing geothermal heat pumps (including training)

Subsidize/finance solar panel installations (as in the Berkeley program), including training. Maybe even have the government help finance a bunch of silicon purification plants, which are the main roadblock/expense of solar panels.

]]> Comment #2 by Erik Hoffner http://www.grist.org/article/green-collar-stimulus/ Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:46:13 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/green-collar-stimulus/2 the original solar energy

I'd like to see some emphasis from guvvy on supporting the expansion of local/urban/metro farming and gardening. Such small farm jobs are reeeally green, have known economic and social and health benefits, and are great for reducing energy use, unless it's growing tomatoes in greenhouses in VT in January. But even in winter, city based farms can produce massive amounts of greens - there's a CSA in the Twin Cities area that only offers a winter share for this reason.

Otherwise, I'd like to see DOE and USDA streamline their guidelines for clean energy startup seed money and loan guarantees. There are many clean energy projects just waiting to be launched, but red tape scares some off of partnering with the Feds.

Erik

The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, & more

]]> the original solar energy

I'd like to see some emphasis from guvvy on supporting the expansion of local/urban/metro farming and gardening. Such small farm jobs are reeeally green, have known economic and social and health benefits, and are great for reducing energy use, unless it's growing tomatoes in greenhouses in VT in January. But even in winter, city based farms can produce massive amounts of greens - there's a CSA in the Twin Cities area that only offers a winter share for this reason.

Otherwise, I'd like to see DOE and USDA streamline their guidelines for clean energy startup seed money and loan guarantees. There are many clean energy projects just waiting to be launched, but red tape scares some off of partnering with the Feds.

Erik

The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, & more

]]> Comment #3 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/green-collar-stimulus/ Thu, 23 Oct 2008 00:58:12 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/green-collar-stimulus/3 Yeah Jon and Erik

Make farms, including CSAs, the backup power source for a renewable smart grid.  With biogas digestion feeding distributed cogeneration plants.

Divert subsidies from big oil, coal, and nuclear power corpoprations to direct per kwh subsidies for renewable power and conservation.  Checks right to homeomers, farms, and small businesses.

Those organic CSAs and farms should get a check Erik, for power generated and chemical fertilizer from natural gas saved.

Order millions of units per year of plugin hybrids, ground source heating/cooling systems, and solar cogeneration panels for government use, to get mass production going.  

The auto industry wants a bailout?  Fine, but get millions of affordably priced, mass produced plugin hybrid economy cars in return.  We need a model T for this energy re-evolution to replace oil.  

A simple, economical car that gets US off our oil addiction and out of perpetual oil wars and the resultant periodic economic damage.  

Insist on a standardized economy plugin hybrid drivetrain inside the cars ordered from US auto companies.  They can decorate the outside, but get a practical design inside.

Bolster student loan and grant programs for solar and ground source heating installation programs, California is short of solar installers right now.

You got that right Jon, make silicon fab for solar PV a national mass production goal, as in war producyion goals during WW2.  Fund R & D on solar furnace powered silicon refining cogeneration power plants.

The Berkely model is very interesting, we need some studies of the results as soon as possible.

Gore's carbon pricing model should be part of the green stimulus.  Carbon taxes would fund tax rebates for those under 250k income.  

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Yeah Jon and Erik

Make farms, including CSAs, the backup power source for a renewable smart grid.  With biogas digestion feeding distributed cogeneration plants.

Divert subsidies from big oil, coal, and nuclear power corpoprations to direct per kwh subsidies for renewable power and conservation.  Checks right to homeomers, farms, and small businesses.

Those organic CSAs and farms should get a check Erik, for power generated and chemical fertilizer from natural gas saved.

Order millions of units per year of plugin hybrids, ground source heating/cooling systems, and solar cogeneration panels for government use, to get mass production going.  

The auto industry wants a bailout?  Fine, but get millions of affordably priced, mass produced plugin hybrid economy cars in return.  We need a model T for this energy re-evolution to replace oil.  

A simple, economical car that gets US off our oil addiction and out of perpetual oil wars and the resultant periodic economic damage.  

Insist on a standardized economy plugin hybrid drivetrain inside the cars ordered from US auto companies.  They can decorate the outside, but get a practical design inside.

Bolster student loan and grant programs for solar and ground source heating installation programs, California is short of solar installers right now.

You got that right Jon, make silicon fab for solar PV a national mass production goal, as in war producyion goals during WW2.  Fund R & D on solar furnace powered silicon refining cogeneration power plants.

The Berkely model is very interesting, we need some studies of the results as soon as possible.

Gore's carbon pricing model should be part of the green stimulus.  Carbon taxes would fund tax rebates for those under 250k income.  

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Comment #4 by caniscandida http://www.grist.org/article/green-collar-stimulus/ Thu, 23 Oct 2008 02:14:50 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/green-collar-stimulus/4 Krugman vs. Obama?

Paul Krugman often praised John Edwards' health care reform policy -- and had the courage to repeat that praise, even after Edwards' shocking, disgusting fall from grace this summer -- , with Hillary Clinton's plan coming a close second.  Barack Obama's, by contrast, impressed him rather less, to a large extent because it allowed too much wiggle-room for the purpose of negotiation.

And so, we may well wonder with what confidence Krugman is looking ahead toward an Obama presidency.  All of us should be confident that Obama understands Krugman's assessment of (this part of) America's problems, and is surely fully welcoming of Krugman's recommendations (as well as those of Jon, Erik and Amazing!).

What we do not yet know is how Obama will assess the financial limitations of government, even as he may fully agree with Krugman et al. that "green-collar stimulus" is an excellent direction for government at different levels to follow in the long-term recession.  Also, we do not yet know how courageous Obama will be in risking being charged with "socialism" by right-wing ideologues.

A lot seems to turn on whether the Senate Democrats get to sixty.

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

]]> Krugman vs. Obama?

Paul Krugman often praised John Edwards' health care reform policy -- and had the courage to repeat that praise, even after Edwards' shocking, disgusting fall from grace this summer -- , with Hillary Clinton's plan coming a close second.  Barack Obama's, by contrast, impressed him rather less, to a large extent because it allowed too much wiggle-room for the purpose of negotiation.

And so, we may well wonder with what confidence Krugman is looking ahead toward an Obama presidency.  All of us should be confident that Obama understands Krugman's assessment of (this part of) America's problems, and is surely fully welcoming of Krugman's recommendations (as well as those of Jon, Erik and Amazing!).

What we do not yet know is how Obama will assess the financial limitations of government, even as he may fully agree with Krugman et al. that "green-collar stimulus" is an excellent direction for government at different levels to follow in the long-term recession.  Also, we do not yet know how courageous Obama will be in risking being charged with "socialism" by right-wing ideologues.

A lot seems to turn on whether the Senate Democrats get to sixty.

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

]]> Comment #5 by Pangolin http://www.grist.org/article/green-collar-stimulus/ Thu, 23 Oct 2008 08:08:31 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/green-collar-stimulus/5 We need modular production.

Standardize the solar panel size so that any panel will fit on any rack produced.

Create a hybrid battery pack standard so that packs are swappable from a Prius to a Ford Escort hybrid with sizes up to dump truck. Likewise create a series of genset standards the will power anything from a Geo Metro to a cement truck. Make them all fit the same motor mount and have some kind of common output.

Ground-loop or community-thermal loop heat pumps should be sized in standard sizes and connections just like regular AC units are.

With modular units smaller companies can enter the game producing a better version of module-X with full knowledge that customers can put their product to work. This did wonders for bringing down computer prices.

As long as many of these projects require an engineers review we will always play catch-up. Industry standards boards are precisely where government does it's job best. Tell them to agree upon a standard or the gov't will do it for them and the process will fly.

Put the Carbon Back

]]> We need modular production.

Standardize the solar panel size so that any panel will fit on any rack produced.

Create a hybrid battery pack standard so that packs are swappable from a Prius to a Ford Escort hybrid with sizes up to dump truck. Likewise create a series of genset standards the will power anything from a Geo Metro to a cement truck. Make them all fit the same motor mount and have some kind of common output.

Ground-loop or community-thermal loop heat pumps should be sized in standard sizes and connections just like regular AC units are.

With modular units smaller companies can enter the game producing a better version of module-X with full knowledge that customers can put their product to work. This did wonders for bringing down computer prices.

As long as many of these projects require an engineers review we will always play catch-up. Industry standards boards are precisely where government does it's job best. Tell them to agree upon a standard or the gov't will do it for them and the process will fly.

Put the Carbon Back

]]> Comment #6 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/green-collar-stimulus/ Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:52:59 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/green-collar-stimulus/6 Yep Canis

Obama's coat tails might get us that 60.  

I like that Pang, standards.  That could be done with very little meddling.

NREL could help determine what is possible and how to measure performance up to the standards.  Making battery packs interchangeable would be especially helpfull, that could lead to robotic filling stations that you pull up to and the "gas pump" extracts your used battery and plugs in a charged one.

Yep solar and ground source heating would be easier with easily assembled and mass produced standard components.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Yep Canis

Obama's coat tails might get us that 60.  

I like that Pang, standards.  That could be done with very little meddling.

NREL could help determine what is possible and how to measure performance up to the standards.  Making battery packs interchangeable would be especially helpfull, that could lead to robotic filling stations that you pull up to and the "gas pump" extracts your used battery and plugs in a charged one.

Yep solar and ground source heating would be easier with easily assembled and mass produced standard components.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

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