<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for We can do more than he calls for, but I would settle for Gore’s objective]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by AndyFrankGO http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:28:03 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/1 Annual Electricity Costs

Gar, nice post.  I agree that this goal is feasible if we have enough political will, and it is more than a little disappointing that many mainstream environmentalists are naysaying.

I'm wondering what your 66 cents per kwh would translate to assuming the capital costs can be amortized into billing rates (as they currently are for fossil fuels).  

If capital costs can be spread for 30 years, it seems like that would make the new clean energy pretty cheap, but want to make sure I'm not missing anything, thanks.

]]> Annual Electricity Costs

Gar, nice post.  I agree that this goal is feasible if we have enough political will, and it is more than a little disappointing that many mainstream environmentalists are naysaying.

I'm wondering what your 66 cents per kwh would translate to assuming the capital costs can be amortized into billing rates (as they currently are for fossil fuels).  

If capital costs can be spread for 30 years, it seems like that would make the new clean energy pretty cheap, but want to make sure I'm not missing anything, thanks.

]]> Comment #2 by sindark http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:50:36 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/2 Capital stock turnover

What about the people who stumped up the capital for all the coal, oil, and gas plants that will need to be scrapped before the planned time?

I agree that shifting to renewable power is essential, but there are two reasons for which imposing financial distress on these investors could be problematic. In the first place, they may simply use their influece to block the policy. In the second, their losses might make it harder to raise capital for renewable projects.

The political and economic costs of scrapping existing plants must be taken into account.

a sibilant intake of breath

]]> Capital stock turnover

What about the people who stumped up the capital for all the coal, oil, and gas plants that will need to be scrapped before the planned time?

I agree that shifting to renewable power is essential, but there are two reasons for which imposing financial distress on these investors could be problematic. In the first place, they may simply use their influece to block the policy. In the second, their losses might make it harder to raise capital for renewable projects.

The political and economic costs of scrapping existing plants must be taken into account.

a sibilant intake of breath

]]> Comment #3 by Jon Rynn http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:13:59 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/3 Sindark -- an idea from Taiwan

When the Kuomintang party abandoned China to the Communists in the late 1940s, they expropriated the land from the landlords on Taiwan, which the Kuomintang took over, and gave them industrial bonds in return.  So the landlords went from oppressing peasants to investing in Taiwan's industrial future, a rousing success.  You could conceivably do something similar, give the coal plant owners "solar/wind" bonds to invest in.

]]> Sindark -- an idea from Taiwan

When the Kuomintang party abandoned China to the Communists in the late 1940s, they expropriated the land from the landlords on Taiwan, which the Kuomintang took over, and gave them industrial bonds in return.  So the landlords went from oppressing peasants to investing in Taiwan's industrial future, a rousing success.  You could conceivably do something similar, give the coal plant owners "solar/wind" bonds to invest in.

]]> Comment #4 by PJD http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:17:07 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/4 Annual kWh?

Could you explain what an annual kWh is.  They were not yet teaching this concept when I got my electrical engineering degree.  It seems an odd unit of measure since it involves squaring time.

]]> Annual kWh?

Could you explain what an annual kWh is.  They were not yet teaching this concept when I got my electrical engineering degree.  It seems an odd unit of measure since it involves squaring time.

]]> Comment #5 by MAD MAC http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:06:25 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/5 What are the sources of power?

Gar
If it is decarbonized, and you exclude nuclear, what are your power sources. Clearly wind and solar, but also clearly a lot of other electric power sources. Can you elaborate.

Victory in Pattani


]]> What are the sources of power?

Gar
If it is decarbonized, and you exclude nuclear, what are your power sources. Clearly wind and solar, but also clearly a lot of other electric power sources. Can you elaborate.

Victory in Pattani


]]> Comment #6 by Gar Lipow http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:25:14 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/6 Look at the spreasheet

Electricity is almost entirely wind and concentrating solar thermal, with a tiny mount of geothermal and hydro and 1% natural gas. 99% decarbonized. The last little bit of natural gas can be phased out in a variety of ways - but 99% carbon free is good enough for the next 20 or 30 years.

]]> Look at the spreasheet

Electricity is almost entirely wind and concentrating solar thermal, with a tiny mount of geothermal and hydro and 1% natural gas. 99% decarbonized. The last little bit of natural gas can be phased out in a variety of ways - but 99% carbon free is good enough for the next 20 or 30 years.

]]> Comment #7 by zencarver http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/ Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:46:26 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/7 Thank You

That so much of the environmental community and netroots chooses to back away from it as "almost feasible" or "a moonshot," that is, as too radical, says something about their timidity.

Exactly, and thank you.

There is more to the economic story than you've addressed in this post, as well.  I would love to see an analysis of the knock-on effects of such a transformation in our energy sector.  With fossil fuel extraction becoming increasingly low in job-intensity, and so many manufacturing and installation/maintenance jobs being created, and with an increasing amount of our natural gas being imported, this seems a slam dunk, economically.  Unless, of course, you're tied to fossil fuel interests.

]]> Thank You

That so much of the environmental community and netroots chooses to back away from it as "almost feasible" or "a moonshot," that is, as too radical, says something about their timidity.

Exactly, and thank you.

There is more to the economic story than you've addressed in this post, as well.  I would love to see an analysis of the knock-on effects of such a transformation in our energy sector.  With fossil fuel extraction becoming increasingly low in job-intensity, and so many manufacturing and installation/maintenance jobs being created, and with an increasing amount of our natural gas being imported, this seems a slam dunk, economically.  Unless, of course, you're tied to fossil fuel interests.

]]> Comment #8 by MAD MAC http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/ Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:44:50 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/gores-plan-is-more-than-100-percent-feasible/8 I would say 99% is good enough

forever. If the US can achieve that, the one percent just doesn't matter.

Victory in Pattani

]]> I would say 99% is good enough

forever. If the US can achieve that, the one percent just doesn't matter.

Victory in Pattani

]]>