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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for From New Jersey, bad news for factory farms]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/good-news-for-modern-farm-animals/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:25:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/good-news-for-modern-farm-animals/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Grass Fed Cows</strong></p><p>Tom, you're in the east and this isn't an issue there, but cattle and sheep grazing in the west causes massive ecological damage. &nbsp;While I applaud this decision as one that will reduce cruelty, I certainly hope that it doesn't end up resulting in even more western cattle further destroying western grasslands, deserts, and forests.</p>
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				<p><strong>Grass Fed Cows</strong></p><p>Tom, you're in the east and this isn't an issue there, but cattle and sheep grazing in the west causes massive ecological damage. &nbsp;While I applaud this decision as one that will reduce cruelty, I certainly hope that it doesn't end up resulting in even more western cattle further destroying western grasslands, deserts, and forests.</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by John former Marine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/good-news-for-modern-farm-animals/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:59:08 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/good-news-for-modern-farm-animals/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Western grazing...</strong></p><p>I ran by a figure two years ago that showed that the Forest Service was spending $15 million more in Colorado to repair cattle-related erosion damage than they were taking in from grazing permit fees. &nbsp;Somebody out there in Gristland probably has some better, up-to-date figures to offer. </p><p>
I have to agree with Wolverine that the damage to our Western states (repaired with our tax dollars or just not repaired at all) amounts to another subsidy for the meat industry.</p><p>
If CAFOs go away, overall consumption of meat would have to go down considerably to not overgraze sensitive lands. &nbsp;I'd like to see all grazing permits on public land ended. &nbsp;As well as mining, etc.</p><p>
I read a great book a couple of years ago called "All Flesh is Grass". &nbsp;It was about small-scale intensive grazing (i.e. get a goat to mow your 1-acre lawn), kind of like the animal husbandry version of "square foot gardening." &nbsp;If animals are going to continue to be part of the integrated small subsistence farm, it should be replacing lawns with pasture, not pushing the wilderness further back to accomodate more grass-fed beef.

<p>Il faut cultiver notre jardin.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Western grazing...</strong></p><p>I ran by a figure two years ago that showed that the Forest Service was spending $15 million more in Colorado to repair cattle-related erosion damage than they were taking in from grazing permit fees. &nbsp;Somebody out there in Gristland probably has some better, up-to-date figures to offer. </p><p>
I have to agree with Wolverine that the damage to our Western states (repaired with our tax dollars or just not repaired at all) amounts to another subsidy for the meat industry.</p><p>
If CAFOs go away, overall consumption of meat would have to go down considerably to not overgraze sensitive lands. &nbsp;I'd like to see all grazing permits on public land ended. &nbsp;As well as mining, etc.</p><p>
I read a great book a couple of years ago called "All Flesh is Grass". &nbsp;It was about small-scale intensive grazing (i.e. get a goat to mow your 1-acre lawn), kind of like the animal husbandry version of "square foot gardening." &nbsp;If animals are going to continue to be part of the integrated small subsistence farm, it should be replacing lawns with pasture, not pushing the wilderness further back to accomodate more grass-fed beef.

<p>Il faut cultiver notre jardin.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/good-news-for-modern-farm-animals/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:23:30 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/good-news-for-modern-farm-animals/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Proposition 2<p>See also the recent piece by Nicholas Kristof, who grew up on a farm in Oregon, about the potentially very important vote in California:<p>
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/opinion/31kristof.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/opinion/31kristof.html<p>
So it seems that Californians will have the opportunity to strike a blow for animal rights as well as for gay rights this November.

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Proposition 2<p>See also the recent piece by Nicholas Kristof, who grew up on a farm in Oregon, about the potentially very important vote in California:<p>
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/opinion/31kristof.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/opinion/31kristof.html<p>
So it seems that Californians will have the opportunity to strike a blow for animal rights as well as for gay rights this November.

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Rebecca T of HonestMeat</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/good-news-for-modern-farm-animals/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:00:28 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/good-news-for-modern-farm-animals/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Grazing in the West</strong></p><p>I live in the West and we practice short-duration, high-intensity grazing that does not damage the range. &nbsp;In fact, this method has been shown to revive and replenish grasslands and even help bring native grasses back as it mimics natural animal herding behavior. &nbsp;All grazing in the West is not the same, nor is every animal's impact the same (for example, goats eat browse while cows eat grass). &nbsp;So it paints an inaccurate picture to categorically say that grazing is bad for the West. &nbsp;See what happens when you remove it completely- the brush will invade and create horrendous fire conditions.</p>
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				<p><strong>Grazing in the West</strong></p><p>I live in the West and we practice short-duration, high-intensity grazing that does not damage the range. &nbsp;In fact, this method has been shown to revive and replenish grasslands and even help bring native grasses back as it mimics natural animal herding behavior. &nbsp;All grazing in the West is not the same, nor is every animal's impact the same (for example, goats eat browse while cows eat grass). &nbsp;So it paints an inaccurate picture to categorically say that grazing is bad for the West. &nbsp;See what happens when you remove it completely- the brush will invade and create horrendous fire conditions.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/good-news-for-modern-farm-animals/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 09:02:48 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/good-news-for-modern-farm-animals/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Rebecca</strong></p><p>

Where in the West are you?</p><p>
What native animals do you claim that your cattle are replacing? &nbsp;(Hint: There were no native grazers west of the Rocky Mountains to speak of, only browsers.)

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				<p><strong>Rebecca</strong></p><p>

Where in the West are you?</p><p>
What native animals do you claim that your cattle are replacing? &nbsp;(Hint: There were no native grazers west of the Rocky Mountains to speak of, only browsers.)

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            <title>Comment #6 by Rebecca T of HonestMeat</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/good-news-for-modern-farm-animals/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 04:45:04 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/good-news-for-modern-farm-animals/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>All grazing is not created equal</strong></p><p>

I live in California, but have lived in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and Colorado<br>
Native herbivores of the West have included: elk, bison, pronghorn, mule deer, bighorn sheep, mountain goats, moose, and even prairie dogs. &nbsp;Although some of these are classified as browsers, even the definition of browsers includes some grass &amp; forb consumption.</p><p>


A thoughtful, well-managed grazing operation can be an excellent land-management tool and is preferable to increased brush-fire conditions, expansion of non-native species, or the conversion of rangelands to mini-mansions and ranchettes.</br></p>
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				<p><strong>All grazing is not created equal</strong></p><p>

I live in California, but have lived in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and Colorado<br>
Native herbivores of the West have included: elk, bison, pronghorn, mule deer, bighorn sheep, mountain goats, moose, and even prairie dogs. &nbsp;Although some of these are classified as browsers, even the definition of browsers includes some grass &amp; forb consumption.</p><p>


A thoughtful, well-managed grazing operation can be an excellent land-management tool and is preferable to increased brush-fire conditions, expansion of non-native species, or the conversion of rangelands to mini-mansions and ranchettes.</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by amc89</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/good-news-for-modern-farm-animals/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:19:23 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/good-news-for-modern-farm-animals/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>This Proposition deals more with chickens and pigs<p>Prop 2 bans the caging or crating of egg-laying hens, pigs and veal calves so it doesn't really impact cattle grazing that much. &nbsp;I'm hoping not only that Prop 2 will win but that the campaigns and advertizing for it will make consumers more aware of the realities of where most of their animal products are now coming from- not from family farms but from factory farms. &nbsp;Hopefully more people will go vegetarian or reduce and alter their animal product consumption because of what they've learned. &nbsp;<p>
Check out the video promoting campaign by the makers of the Meatrix at &nbsp;<a href="http://uncaged.yesonprop2.com/&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;" rel="nofollow">http://uncaged.yesonprop2.com/&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
</br></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>This Proposition deals more with chickens and pigs<p>Prop 2 bans the caging or crating of egg-laying hens, pigs and veal calves so it doesn't really impact cattle grazing that much. &nbsp;I'm hoping not only that Prop 2 will win but that the campaigns and advertizing for it will make consumers more aware of the realities of where most of their animal products are now coming from- not from family farms but from factory farms. &nbsp;Hopefully more people will go vegetarian or reduce and alter their animal product consumption because of what they've learned. &nbsp;<p>
Check out the video promoting campaign by the makers of the Meatrix at &nbsp;<a href="http://uncaged.yesonprop2.com/&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;" rel="nofollow">http://uncaged.yesonprop2.com/&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
</br></a></p></p></strong></p>
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