<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Following U.S. consumerism through the fields of China and Brazil]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by tg13535 http://www.grist.org/article/global2/ Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:21:49 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/global2/1 The Route of the Problem

It is amazing to me the so many in the world derive short term and fleeting happiness from consuming products that have limited lasting and/or redeeming value.

I am a financial planner and have been for 20 years.  Trying to educate people on the value of experiences that are sustainable versus "products" that are not.  The truly happy and fulfilled "rich people" I work with generally don't over consume. In the global economy model, economic development and consumption are the goals. The planets resources would be consumed in short order, should the rest of the world reach our level of consumption.

We need to explore avenues of growth that are sustainable in accretive on depletive.  Economic growth in many third world countries would help the environmental situation.  It is hard to tell a native not to cut down a tree when they are not sure if they are going to eat today or not.  Moving our(the developed worlds) economic model will be difficult, but needs to be pursued.

]]> The Route of the Problem

It is amazing to me the so many in the world derive short term and fleeting happiness from consuming products that have limited lasting and/or redeeming value.

I am a financial planner and have been for 20 years.  Trying to educate people on the value of experiences that are sustainable versus "products" that are not.  The truly happy and fulfilled "rich people" I work with generally don't over consume. In the global economy model, economic development and consumption are the goals. The planets resources would be consumed in short order, should the rest of the world reach our level of consumption.

We need to explore avenues of growth that are sustainable in accretive on depletive.  Economic growth in many third world countries would help the environmental situation.  It is hard to tell a native not to cut down a tree when they are not sure if they are going to eat today or not.  Moving our(the developed worlds) economic model will be difficult, but needs to be pursued.

]]> Comment #2 by tonybogar http://www.grist.org/article/global2/ Fri, 13 Apr 2007 00:14:30 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/global2/2 Growth Fetish

A few years ago, when I lived in Australia, I read a book by Clive Hamilton titled "The Growth Fetish". As its name implies, he argues that GDP growth is not the ultimate measure of success. He then argues that capitalism today depends not on companies buying and selling commodities, but on you and me buying "stuff". Therefore, we have more power to control the economy and its impact than ever before. I am simplifying this too much, but essentially if we stop buying into the marketing that tells us we need to buy every new product, then we can slow down the damage we are doing.

]]> Growth Fetish

A few years ago, when I lived in Australia, I read a book by Clive Hamilton titled "The Growth Fetish". As its name implies, he argues that GDP growth is not the ultimate measure of success. He then argues that capitalism today depends not on companies buying and selling commodities, but on you and me buying "stuff". Therefore, we have more power to control the economy and its impact than ever before. I am simplifying this too much, but essentially if we stop buying into the marketing that tells us we need to buy every new product, then we can slow down the damage we are doing.

]]> Comment #3 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/global2/ Fri, 13 Apr 2007 02:47:54 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/global2/3 It's Called Productivity

According to the Congressional Budget Office, U.S. manufacturing jobs plunged by nearly 20 percent between 1999 and 2004, and stand at their lowest level since the late 1950s.

Yes, and that's mostly due to increased productivity and efficiency.   We've just gone through a wrenching time as we birthed ourselves into the Age of Information.   Factories are automated, use CAD technology, databases...and employees are smarter and work harder than ever before.

We are actually competitive in steel again!  USX (nee U.S. Steel) is thriving.

]]> It's Called Productivity

According to the Congressional Budget Office, U.S. manufacturing jobs plunged by nearly 20 percent between 1999 and 2004, and stand at their lowest level since the late 1950s.

Yes, and that's mostly due to increased productivity and efficiency.   We've just gone through a wrenching time as we birthed ourselves into the Age of Information.   Factories are automated, use CAD technology, databases...and employees are smarter and work harder than ever before.

We are actually competitive in steel again!  USX (nee U.S. Steel) is thriving.

]]> Comment #4 by bshizz http://www.grist.org/article/global2/ Fri, 13 Apr 2007 16:11:48 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/global2/4 "Converting Coal into Liquid Car Fuel"

The overall point of the article is well-taken.  However, I think one point you made in the 3rd paragraph deserves more exploration - which, thankfully, can start from the link you provided to the FT article. That article had this to say about "technologies to convert coal into liquid car fuel" :

"Methanol, a chemical usually derived from coal, can be added to petrol to create a cleaner-burning fuel. When oil prices are high, it is also cheaper."
...
"...officials had complained that the NDRC had been holding back the development of methanol in favour of ethanol, which is mainly made using corn in China."
...
"The two methanol standards...use fuel with 15 per cent and 85 per cent of methanol respectively."

So, it looks like methanol is a) cleaner than oil, and b) replacing ethanol, the unsustainability of which I have read about in this magazine many times (and which is even referenced in this very article)

Would China be doing itself and the world a big favor if it put methanol, or methanol mixed with oil, into its car engines instead of just oil?

I know Grist has written about Coal-to-liquid fuels here: http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/3/5/155252/7171

but is this methanol thing the same?  





]]> "Converting Coal into Liquid Car Fuel"

The overall point of the article is well-taken.  However, I think one point you made in the 3rd paragraph deserves more exploration - which, thankfully, can start from the link you provided to the FT article. That article had this to say about "technologies to convert coal into liquid car fuel" :

"Methanol, a chemical usually derived from coal, can be added to petrol to create a cleaner-burning fuel. When oil prices are high, it is also cheaper."
...
"...officials had complained that the NDRC had been holding back the development of methanol in favour of ethanol, which is mainly made using corn in China."
...
"The two methanol standards...use fuel with 15 per cent and 85 per cent of methanol respectively."

So, it looks like methanol is a) cleaner than oil, and b) replacing ethanol, the unsustainability of which I have read about in this magazine many times (and which is even referenced in this very article)

Would China be doing itself and the world a big favor if it put methanol, or methanol mixed with oil, into its car engines instead of just oil?

I know Grist has written about Coal-to-liquid fuels here: http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/3/5/155252/7171

but is this methanol thing the same?  





]]> Comment #5 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/global2/ Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:08:16 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/global2/5 Nice piece

Like to see this in the New York Times.

Our computers were made in China, as was my bike, its electric motor, controller, the batteries that run the motor, and the charger that charges the batteries.

Few could afford an electric bike, or a computer for that matter if the parts were all made locally. Locally grown food is of course much more feasible and only slightly more expensive, so at least that idea has potential.

We have defined the problems. We need to put much more emphasis on finding solutions.

]]> Nice piece

Like to see this in the New York Times.

Our computers were made in China, as was my bike, its electric motor, controller, the batteries that run the motor, and the charger that charges the batteries.

Few could afford an electric bike, or a computer for that matter if the parts were all made locally. Locally grown food is of course much more feasible and only slightly more expensive, so at least that idea has potential.

We have defined the problems. We need to put much more emphasis on finding solutions.

]]> Comment #6 by danielbu http://www.grist.org/article/global2/ Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:13:50 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/global2/6 You are what you eat as policy

This article has a good deal to say about what policy right here has to do with where we are now. Should it be a surprise that China is where it is if it put development over environment until this year? Next year they'll outlaw coal (or 5 years from now), and implement it in 12 months. That's their strength. Or is it weakness?

]]> You are what you eat as policy

This article has a good deal to say about what policy right here has to do with where we are now. Should it be a surprise that China is where it is if it put development over environment until this year? Next year they'll outlaw coal (or 5 years from now), and implement it in 12 months. That's their strength. Or is it weakness?

]]>