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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Challenging the militarization of U.S. energy policy]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/garrisoning-the-global-gas-station/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 02:04:28 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Left and right neocons<p>Klare is describing what I would call "right Neocons", that is, those that wish to maintain or expand American empire by fighting never-ending wars for oil. &nbsp;There are also "left neocons", some of who were pro-Iraq war, who understand that dependence on foreign oil limits US power. &nbsp;The most left-leaning of these is <a href="http://www.setamericafree.org/who.htm" rel="nofollow">the think tank "Set America Free", which has some nonNeoCons on it.<p>
Former CIA director Woolsey is also a "left-neocon"; a friend recently went to the Electric Car show in DC, and Woolsey, who is a big electric car enthusiast, spoke there -- as did Thomas Freidman, who I would classify as a left neocon. &nbsp;<p>
So within the "ruling class", things may not be so bleak as Klare writes; I think the "left Neocons" may be open to drill,drill,drill but they seem to realize that the era of cheap oil is over.<p>
I'm also glad to see Klare talk about a post-petroleum future (<a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/3/11/224622/790" rel="nofollow">this was my attempt), and that he mentions using military funding for transit instead.</a></p></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Left and right neocons<p>Klare is describing what I would call "right Neocons", that is, those that wish to maintain or expand American empire by fighting never-ending wars for oil. &nbsp;There are also "left neocons", some of who were pro-Iraq war, who understand that dependence on foreign oil limits US power. &nbsp;The most left-leaning of these is <a href="http://www.setamericafree.org/who.htm" rel="nofollow">the think tank "Set America Free", which has some nonNeoCons on it.<p>
Former CIA director Woolsey is also a "left-neocon"; a friend recently went to the Electric Car show in DC, and Woolsey, who is a big electric car enthusiast, spoke there -- as did Thomas Freidman, who I would classify as a left neocon. &nbsp;<p>
So within the "ruling class", things may not be so bleak as Klare writes; I think the "left Neocons" may be open to drill,drill,drill but they seem to realize that the era of cheap oil is over.<p>
I'm also glad to see Klare talk about a post-petroleum future (<a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/3/11/224622/790" rel="nofollow">this was my attempt), and that he mentions using military funding for transit instead.</a></p></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by MAD MAC</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/garrisoning-the-global-gas-station/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 05:19:36 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/garrisoning-the-global-gas-station/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>For now, the straits have to be guarded</strong></p><p>Remember, that Dar al Islam is seeking to force the entire world to submit to Islamic rule. That is, and always has been, a goal of Islam. Most Muslims would agree that Islam will rule the world, and that Muslims should work towards that end (the big disagreement is in how - most reject the idea of using violence to achieve this end). </p><p>
Now, let's say the US military did not guarantee Gulf Oil. And let's say that Ahmedinijad and the Mullahs who control Iran decided that they really could get us over a barrel - so to speak - if they cut supplies. They'd have the world by the balls, and they know it. The global economy would collapse without oil right now. BILLIONS would die. </p><p>
So yes, the US needs to become energy independent. No question. Yes, the government should be providing the private sector with every incentive to get there from here as fast as possible (preferably before there isn't any oil left). But no, policy at this time should not be changed. The US military must guarantee the oil flows.</p><p>
By the way, the article is wrong in assuming that the oil would flow anyway, without US military involvement. You can't prove a negative.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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				<p><strong>For now, the straits have to be guarded</strong></p><p>Remember, that Dar al Islam is seeking to force the entire world to submit to Islamic rule. That is, and always has been, a goal of Islam. Most Muslims would agree that Islam will rule the world, and that Muslims should work towards that end (the big disagreement is in how - most reject the idea of using violence to achieve this end). </p><p>
Now, let's say the US military did not guarantee Gulf Oil. And let's say that Ahmedinijad and the Mullahs who control Iran decided that they really could get us over a barrel - so to speak - if they cut supplies. They'd have the world by the balls, and they know it. The global economy would collapse without oil right now. BILLIONS would die. </p><p>
So yes, the US needs to become energy independent. No question. Yes, the government should be providing the private sector with every incentive to get there from here as fast as possible (preferably before there isn't any oil left). But no, policy at this time should not be changed. The US military must guarantee the oil flows.</p><p>
By the way, the article is wrong in assuming that the oil would flow anyway, without US military involvement. You can't prove a negative.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/garrisoning-the-global-gas-station/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 05:36:31 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/garrisoning-the-global-gas-station/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>How do you prove a double negative...</strong></p><p>...that the oil won't flow without the U.S. military being involved. &nbsp;Klare was trying to show that the U.S. military can actually impede the flow of oil. &nbsp;Militaries are designed to destroy things (a necessary thing to do when faced with another military trying to destroy your country), they are not designed for governing, which is the job of governments, however one may feel about them. &nbsp;That's why the U.S. has generally dealt with anti-humanitarian dictatorial regimes, like Saudi Arabia, because the Saudis are the ones governing their territory. &nbsp;Attempting to physically control something as flameable as oil, via military means, sounds pretty risky.</p>
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				<p><strong>How do you prove a double negative...</strong></p><p>...that the oil won't flow without the U.S. military being involved. &nbsp;Klare was trying to show that the U.S. military can actually impede the flow of oil. &nbsp;Militaries are designed to destroy things (a necessary thing to do when faced with another military trying to destroy your country), they are not designed for governing, which is the job of governments, however one may feel about them. &nbsp;That's why the U.S. has generally dealt with anti-humanitarian dictatorial regimes, like Saudi Arabia, because the Saudis are the ones governing their territory. &nbsp;Attempting to physically control something as flameable as oil, via military means, sounds pretty risky.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by MAD MAC</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/garrisoning-the-global-gas-station/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:09:58 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>But Klare is wrong.</strong></p><p>The truth is, the Iranians were attacking oil supplies in the 80s in the gulf. The idea that our guarding them increases the threat is ridiculous. That the invasion of Iraq might have added to the threat is another question altogether. But the invasion of Iraq was not tied to guarding oil supplies. </p><p>
As for dealing with regimes which are not humanitarian, what's your choice? There is none.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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				<p><strong>But Klare is wrong.</strong></p><p>The truth is, the Iranians were attacking oil supplies in the 80s in the gulf. The idea that our guarding them increases the threat is ridiculous. That the invasion of Iraq might have added to the threat is another question altogether. But the invasion of Iraq was not tied to guarding oil supplies. </p><p>
As for dealing with regimes which are not humanitarian, what's your choice? There is none.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Harry</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/garrisoning-the-global-gas-station/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 00:19:48 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/garrisoning-the-global-gas-station/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Bush's real &quot;Mission Accomplished&quot;!<p><br>
Tired of Bush's $4 a gallon gas?<p>
Visit <a href="http://www.missionaccomplished.us.com" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.missionaccomplished.us.com<p>
Spread the word!<br>
Thanks,<br>
Harry

<p>
Tired of Bush's $4 a gallon gas?

Visit <a href="http://www.missionaccomplished.us.com" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.missionaccomplished.us.com

Spread the word!
Thanks,
Harry</a></p></br></br></p></a></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Bush's real &quot;Mission Accomplished&quot;!<p><br>
Tired of Bush's $4 a gallon gas?<p>
Visit <a href="http://www.missionaccomplished.us.com" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.missionaccomplished.us.com<p>
Spread the word!<br>
Thanks,<br>
Harry

<p>
Tired of Bush's $4 a gallon gas?

Visit <a href="http://www.missionaccomplished.us.com" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.missionaccomplished.us.com

Spread the word!
Thanks,
Harry</a></p></br></br></p></a></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by certvista</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/garrisoning-the-global-gas-station/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 05:13:25 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/garrisoning-the-global-gas-station/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>All about Gas<p>No one still knows that what would be the alternative of Gas? We have seen many discussion about the Natural resources particularly on Oil crises but very few of them talked about the alternative means. What i think all of us must think of some alternative methods like <a href="http://www.a1certifications.com/" rel="nofollow">test king is doing. We all must need to think this process.</a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>All about Gas<p>No one still knows that what would be the alternative of Gas? We have seen many discussion about the Natural resources particularly on Oil crises but very few of them talked about the alternative means. What i think all of us must think of some alternative methods like <a href="http://www.a1certifications.com/" rel="nofollow">test king is doing. We all must need to think this process.</a></p></strong></p>
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