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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Sarkozy pushes proposals on energy and the environment]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:13:11 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>H. Clinton Is the Segolene Royale of U.S.<p><br>
Hopefully she won't treat us to the sight of her pear shaped bod in a Wicked Weasel micro-bikini.

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://sutext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Sutext:</a></br></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>H. Clinton Is the Segolene Royale of U.S.<p><br>
Hopefully she won't treat us to the sight of her pear shaped bod in a Wicked Weasel micro-bikini.

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://sutext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Sutext:</a></br></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Karen Street</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:03:02 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>OK, I'm confused<p>Why would the French want to increase renewables to 20 - 25% of total energy by 2020?<p>
Indeed, how is it 9% today?<p>
Replacing nuclear with wind means replacing nuclear with wind + inefficient natural gas backup, increasing GHG emissions. If the increase comes from biofuels, there will be environmental consequences in that time frame, including possibly increasing GHG emissions -- cutting down tropical forests to produce biofuels may not reduce GHG emissions.<p>
So they will be replacing ??? with hydro? Building new hydro rather than just nuclear?<p>
Please provide more details.<p>
<a href="http://pathsoflight.us/musing/index.php" rel="nofollow">A Musing Environment

<p>Karen Street</p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>OK, I'm confused<p>Why would the French want to increase renewables to 20 - 25% of total energy by 2020?<p>
Indeed, how is it 9% today?<p>
Replacing nuclear with wind means replacing nuclear with wind + inefficient natural gas backup, increasing GHG emissions. If the increase comes from biofuels, there will be environmental consequences in that time frame, including possibly increasing GHG emissions -- cutting down tropical forests to produce biofuels may not reduce GHG emissions.<p>
So they will be replacing ??? with hydro? Building new hydro rather than just nuclear?<p>
Please provide more details.<p>
<a href="http://pathsoflight.us/musing/index.php" rel="nofollow">A Musing Environment

<p>Karen Street</p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by KenG</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:13:47 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>More Renewables</strong></p><p>France could increase renewables % if, by moving to heat pumps and plug in hybrid cars, they substitute electricity for natural gas and oil. This may be a reasonable goal since 20% or so seems to be the practical limit for non controllable (wind/solar) electricity sources.</p>
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				<p><strong>More Renewables</strong></p><p>France could increase renewables % if, by moving to heat pumps and plug in hybrid cars, they substitute electricity for natural gas and oil. This may be a reasonable goal since 20% or so seems to be the practical limit for non controllable (wind/solar) electricity sources.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Ron Steenblik</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:38:24 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>In answer to Karen's question</strong></p><p>Note the percentage of renewables-based electricity that the Frnch government envisages it topping out at: 20-25%. That means, essentially, maintenance of the current share provided by nuclear power (the highest in the world), and the replacement of most, if not all, fossil-fueled power plants by renewable sources. Most of France's 9% renewable share at the moment is provided by hydro-electricity. In the future, there will undoubtedly be more plants fueled by biogass and biomass, as well as the usual wind and solar-PV plants.</p><p>
I agree that if the increase comes from liquid biofuels, there will be environmental consequences, including possibly increasing GHG emissions. But the tide of public opinion in France, as well as in the EU in general, is turning against biofuels. Politicians pander much less to the idea that biofuels are the answer to energy independence; and even the European Commission maintains (though nobody believes them) that the EU's biofuel support policies have NOTHING to do with boosting farm incomes. The main justification has been GHG-reduction benefits, and those are now being questioned. As in the USA, there is a momentum behind biofuels that will keep the juggernaut moving forward for another year, but I predict that political support will start slipping away very quickly.</p><p>
As for the rest of France's policies, there is already considerable support for what the French call "agriculture raisonnable", which is not quite organic, but on the road to it. Meanwhile, long over-due enforcement of speed limits has already saved lives on the road and, I assume (though I haven't seen the figures), improved fuel economy. Then there is the astounding success of the Velib' urban bicycle networks in Paris and Lyon, ... </p>
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				<p><strong>In answer to Karen's question</strong></p><p>Note the percentage of renewables-based electricity that the Frnch government envisages it topping out at: 20-25%. That means, essentially, maintenance of the current share provided by nuclear power (the highest in the world), and the replacement of most, if not all, fossil-fueled power plants by renewable sources. Most of France's 9% renewable share at the moment is provided by hydro-electricity. In the future, there will undoubtedly be more plants fueled by biogass and biomass, as well as the usual wind and solar-PV plants.</p><p>
I agree that if the increase comes from liquid biofuels, there will be environmental consequences, including possibly increasing GHG emissions. But the tide of public opinion in France, as well as in the EU in general, is turning against biofuels. Politicians pander much less to the idea that biofuels are the answer to energy independence; and even the European Commission maintains (though nobody believes them) that the EU's biofuel support policies have NOTHING to do with boosting farm incomes. The main justification has been GHG-reduction benefits, and those are now being questioned. As in the USA, there is a momentum behind biofuels that will keep the juggernaut moving forward for another year, but I predict that political support will start slipping away very quickly.</p><p>
As for the rest of France's policies, there is already considerable support for what the French call "agriculture raisonnable", which is not quite organic, but on the road to it. Meanwhile, long over-due enforcement of speed limits has already saved lives on the road and, I assume (though I haven't seen the figures), improved fuel economy. Then there is the astounding success of the Velib' urban bicycle networks in Paris and Lyon, ... </p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Bart Anderson</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:35:27 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Time to clean up the comments<p>John Bailo's comment is juvenile, sexist and stupid. Why he is still allowed to post on Gristmill is beyond me.<p>
Anyone else for voting him off the island?

<p>Bart<br>
<a href="http://energybulletin.net" rel="nofollow">Energy Bulletin</a></br></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Time to clean up the comments<p>John Bailo's comment is juvenile, sexist and stupid. Why he is still allowed to post on Gristmill is beyond me.<p>
Anyone else for voting him off the island?

<p>Bart<br>
<a href="http://energybulletin.net" rel="nofollow">Energy Bulletin</a></br></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Ron Steenblik</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:04:38 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>RE: Time to clean up the comments</strong></p><p>Bart, I agree with your assessment of John's comment below. Though, to be fair, some comments made by some of the regular contributors to Gristmill about politicians (and celebrities) come close to being either excessively rude, or inanely fawning. Moreover, I've enjoyed reading John's first-person tales of the challenges he has faced commuting by bicycle in his home town.</p><p>
John: more people would pay attention to what you say if you take the high road. If that sounds condescending, I don't mean it to. Consider it a "word to the wise".</p>
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				<p><strong>RE: Time to clean up the comments</strong></p><p>Bart, I agree with your assessment of John's comment below. Though, to be fair, some comments made by some of the regular contributors to Gristmill about politicians (and celebrities) come close to being either excessively rude, or inanely fawning. Moreover, I've enjoyed reading John's first-person tales of the challenges he has faced commuting by bicycle in his home town.</p><p>
John: more people would pay attention to what you say if you take the high road. If that sounds condescending, I don't mean it to. Consider it a "word to the wise".</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:32:45 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>corridors; islands</strong></p><p>Presumably the proposed network of "green" corridors and nature preserves has to do with preserving wildlife. &nbsp;That interests me, because I feel I ought to know more about what lies behind it. &nbsp;Which animals would be benefited? &nbsp;Would a network solely located within the territory of France large enough to do them good? &nbsp;Certainly for the sake of animals in the Pyrenees and the Alps, France would need to cooperate with Spain, Italy and Switzerland.</p><p>
Then again, there may be some kind of development going on within French borders, which is dangerously restricting wildlife to unviable islands, rather as natural gas development in the US state of Wyoming is adversely affecting some birds and mammals. &nbsp;But I do not know enough about European wildlife to guess what that might be about.</p><p>
As for the Gristmill island, and Bart's proposal:<br>
I think I would not vote to ostracize our dear Brother John. &nbsp;If juvenility and stupidity are justifications for axing, then I should have been axed long ago; so I am feeling fearfully for my own neck here.</p><p>
The sexism is indeed nasty, and not to be encouraged. &nbsp;But after all, it is only a couple of steps beyond what the MSM are prepared to subject Hillary to, as indeed they already have done. &nbsp;Nor did poor Segolene Royal escape such comments as, "Her hair always seems dirty."

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></br></p>
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				<p><strong>corridors; islands</strong></p><p>Presumably the proposed network of "green" corridors and nature preserves has to do with preserving wildlife. &nbsp;That interests me, because I feel I ought to know more about what lies behind it. &nbsp;Which animals would be benefited? &nbsp;Would a network solely located within the territory of France large enough to do them good? &nbsp;Certainly for the sake of animals in the Pyrenees and the Alps, France would need to cooperate with Spain, Italy and Switzerland.</p><p>
Then again, there may be some kind of development going on within French borders, which is dangerously restricting wildlife to unviable islands, rather as natural gas development in the US state of Wyoming is adversely affecting some birds and mammals. &nbsp;But I do not know enough about European wildlife to guess what that might be about.</p><p>
As for the Gristmill island, and Bart's proposal:<br>
I think I would not vote to ostracize our dear Brother John. &nbsp;If juvenility and stupidity are justifications for axing, then I should have been axed long ago; so I am feeling fearfully for my own neck here.</p><p>
The sexism is indeed nasty, and not to be encouraged. &nbsp;But after all, it is only a couple of steps beyond what the MSM are prepared to subject Hillary to, as indeed they already have done. &nbsp;Nor did poor Segolene Royal escape such comments as, "Her hair always seems dirty."

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:01:00 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Read It In The Newspapers<p><br>
The comparison is valid.<p>
Segolene Royale was touted for more than a year as the Liberal answer to all Frances problems.<p>
Much mention was made by all parties of how "sexy" she was.<p>
A famous picture of her in a bikini was floated by all major press organs for day after day.<p>
I therefore (humorously) make an analogy between Hillary and Segolene, as Segolene was defeated by a more serious Conservative candidate -- Conservative in the sense of hard nosed.

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://sutext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Sutext:</a></br></p></p></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Read It In The Newspapers<p><br>
The comparison is valid.<p>
Segolene Royale was touted for more than a year as the Liberal answer to all Frances problems.<p>
Much mention was made by all parties of how "sexy" she was.<p>
A famous picture of her in a bikini was floated by all major press organs for day after day.<p>
I therefore (humorously) make an analogy between Hillary and Segolene, as Segolene was defeated by a more serious Conservative candidate -- Conservative in the sense of hard nosed.

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://sutext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Sutext:</a></br></p></p></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:03:13 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Swift Boat Status<p>John: more people would pay attention to what you say if you take the high road. If that sounds condescending, I don't mean it to. Consider it a "word to the wise".<p>
I would really watch what you write about me. &nbsp;Your misinterpretation of my words -- meant satirically -- could be grounds for a lawsuit -- and that goes for any Grist counter-poster who labels me or misrepresents my statements.<br>


<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://sutext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Sutext:</a></br></p></br></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Swift Boat Status<p>John: more people would pay attention to what you say if you take the high road. If that sounds condescending, I don't mean it to. Consider it a "word to the wise".<p>
I would really watch what you write about me. &nbsp;Your misinterpretation of my words -- meant satirically -- could be grounds for a lawsuit -- and that goes for any Grist counter-poster who labels me or misrepresents my statements.<br>


<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://sutext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Sutext:</a></br></p></br></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by Erik Hoffner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:47:57 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>grounds for a lawsuit<p>Ah, and the satire continues. <br>


<p><a href="http://www.orionsociety.org/ogn" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: 1,100+ grassroots groups working for conservation &amp; more
</a></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>grounds for a lawsuit<p>Ah, and the satire continues. <br>


<p><a href="http://www.orionsociety.org/ogn" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: 1,100+ grassroots groups working for conservation &amp; more
</a></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:56:08 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>Grounds<p><br>
the satire continues<p>
I have video records of the trial right here:<p>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf2p964uHDs" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf2p964uHDs<p>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnBlknT2DA0" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnBlknT2DA0

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://sutext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Sutext:</a></br></p></a></p></a></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Grounds<p><br>
the satire continues<p>
I have video records of the trial right here:<p>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf2p964uHDs" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf2p964uHDs<p>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnBlknT2DA0" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnBlknT2DA0

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://sutext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Sutext:</a></br></p></a></p></a></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by Ron Steenblik</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:00:10 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>So sue me</strong></p><p>Meant satirically, John? Explain, please. And here I thought I was playing the peacemaker ...</p>
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				<p><strong>So sue me</strong></p><p>Meant satirically, John? Explain, please. And here I thought I was playing the peacemaker ...</p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by Steve Erickson</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 04:05:39 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/13</guid>
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				<p><strong>Reality</strong></p><p>You'd best read up on the relevant laws. And if your postings read like they're written by an early adolescent male who starts repeating neo-con talking points by rote sometimes, guess how people will respond to you?

<p>Steve E.
</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Reality</strong></p><p>You'd best read up on the relevant laws. And if your postings read like they're written by an early adolescent male who starts repeating neo-con talking points by rote sometimes, guess how people will respond to you?

<p>Steve E.
</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 04:36:43 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/french-conservatives-go-green-too/14</guid>
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				<p><strong>Was that Liberal or Libeler?<p><br>
"You'd best read up on the relevant laws."<p>
libel<p>
An untruthful statement about a person, published in writing or through broadcast media, that injures the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because libel is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. Libel is a form of defamation , as is slander (an untruthful statement that is spoken, but not published in writing or broadcast through the media).<p>
<a href="http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/7613C25C-8E5D-47A5-9E0D93B952DE16E7" rel="nofollow">http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/7613C25C-8E5D-47A ...

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://sutext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Sutext:</a></br></p></a></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Was that Liberal or Libeler?<p><br>
"You'd best read up on the relevant laws."<p>
libel<p>
An untruthful statement about a person, published in writing or through broadcast media, that injures the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because libel is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. Libel is a form of defamation , as is slander (an untruthful statement that is spoken, but not published in writing or broadcast through the media).<p>
<a href="http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/7613C25C-8E5D-47A5-9E0D93B952DE16E7" rel="nofollow">http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/7613C25C-8E5D-47A ...

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://sutext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Sutext:</a></br></p></a></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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