<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Is it something in the air?]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/ Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:18:39 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/1 Another of my predictions is coming true

"When taking into account commitments taken with industrial investments of close to 1 billion euros and the recent start-up of production units, we would not understand (such a move),"

The infrastructure built by the subsidies (which has grown large and powerful as a result of them) will resist all efforts to wean it off the government teat. Government subsidies have created monsters that may prove impossible to kill.

Biopact blows off the concept that small farmers will be crushed by large farming corporations. Why? Because ineffective corrupt governments will magically become effective and not corrupt and will protect the small farmers from competition from giant corporate farm industries in other countries with more magic. Not to mention profit seekers are already plowing up the last carbon sinks to plant biofuels in Africa, which turn out to produce more greenhouse gas than fossil fuels anyway... so why are we doing this again?

As for that air car. You never know.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Another of my predictions is coming true

"When taking into account commitments taken with industrial investments of close to 1 billion euros and the recent start-up of production units, we would not understand (such a move),"

The infrastructure built by the subsidies (which has grown large and powerful as a result of them) will resist all efforts to wean it off the government teat. Government subsidies have created monsters that may prove impossible to kill.

Biopact blows off the concept that small farmers will be crushed by large farming corporations. Why? Because ineffective corrupt governments will magically become effective and not corrupt and will protect the small farmers from competition from giant corporate farm industries in other countries with more magic. Not to mention profit seekers are already plowing up the last carbon sinks to plant biofuels in Africa, which turn out to produce more greenhouse gas than fossil fuels anyway... so why are we doing this again?

As for that air car. You never know.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #2 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/ Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:02:26 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/2 In Their Own Interest

Suncor is one of the world's largest suppliers of shale oil.   Their Alberta plant employs thousands, producing crude from the tar sands.

Yes, French protectionism spans the Atlantic.

My Log


]]> In Their Own Interest

Suncor is one of the world's largest suppliers of shale oil.   Their Alberta plant employs thousands, producing crude from the tar sands.

Yes, French protectionism spans the Atlantic.

My Log


]]> Comment #3 by Ron Steenblik http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/ Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:10:06 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/3 John, care to elaborate?

When you say, "French protectionism spans the Atlantic", are you referring to U.S., Canadian or French trade policies or popular sentiments?

]]> John, care to elaborate?

When you say, "French protectionism spans the Atlantic", are you referring to U.S., Canadian or French trade policies or popular sentiments?

]]> Comment #4 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/ Wed, 21 Nov 2007 02:10:45 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/4 Nuclear refining

Just hope that France, the nuclear power leader, does not realize that refining ethanol with waste heat from nuclear power plants vastly improves the energy equation.

Especially using cellulosic ethanol.  With plenty of waste heat, cellulose can be broken down into sugar without bacterial action.  That eliminates a costly step in cellulosic ethanol production.

And tar sand, coal, and shale to liquid fuel operations could go nuclear too.

We are looking at a nuked up, gas guzzling future if politicians and lobbyists follow true to form.  If it happens anywhere, it will be nuclear powered France first.  Although movement is starting on a plan to refine Canadian tar sands with nukes right now.

Fairly hopeless battle as usual, but that's nothing new.  When even Gristmill presents articles misinforming readers on plugin hybrids, as happened here recently, it does not bode well for a green future.

Because plugin hybrids are the best fix for gas guzzling available.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Nuclear refining

Just hope that France, the nuclear power leader, does not realize that refining ethanol with waste heat from nuclear power plants vastly improves the energy equation.

Especially using cellulosic ethanol.  With plenty of waste heat, cellulose can be broken down into sugar without bacterial action.  That eliminates a costly step in cellulosic ethanol production.

And tar sand, coal, and shale to liquid fuel operations could go nuclear too.

We are looking at a nuked up, gas guzzling future if politicians and lobbyists follow true to form.  If it happens anywhere, it will be nuclear powered France first.  Although movement is starting on a plan to refine Canadian tar sands with nukes right now.

Fairly hopeless battle as usual, but that's nothing new.  When even Gristmill presents articles misinforming readers on plugin hybrids, as happened here recently, it does not bode well for a green future.

Because plugin hybrids are the best fix for gas guzzling available.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #5 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/ Wed, 21 Nov 2007 02:48:42 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/5 O, Canada


Canada as a country has an interest in promoting shale oil.

Cutting biofuel is an economic tactic, not a moral one.

The fact that it's Quebec is meaningless -- they are still part of, and benefit from, a Canadian policy that favors Alberta's shale conversion operations.

My Log



]]> O, Canada


Canada as a country has an interest in promoting shale oil.

Cutting biofuel is an economic tactic, not a moral one.

The fact that it's Quebec is meaningless -- they are still part of, and benefit from, a Canadian policy that favors Alberta's shale conversion operations.

My Log



]]> Comment #6 by Tasermons Partner http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/ Wed, 21 Nov 2007 03:21:23 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/6 Air car is a good start but....

The concept of a car powered by compressed air is a good start (and the idea has been around for awhile), but it needs to go further before it's ready for mass production.  The ones listed in the article still need to be plugged in for recharges (just like electrict plug ins), stiull run off some type of gasoline (though they get much better mileage), and can only travel for a certain distance or up to certain speeds for short amounts of time before they need to be recharged or switch over to full-gasoline modes.

Those problems will haveta be solved before it's accepted among mass consumers.

]]> Air car is a good start but....

The concept of a car powered by compressed air is a good start (and the idea has been around for awhile), but it needs to go further before it's ready for mass production.  The ones listed in the article still need to be plugged in for recharges (just like electrict plug ins), stiull run off some type of gasoline (though they get much better mileage), and can only travel for a certain distance or up to certain speeds for short amounts of time before they need to be recharged or switch over to full-gasoline modes.

Those problems will haveta be solved before it's accepted among mass consumers.

]]> Comment #7 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/ Wed, 21 Nov 2007 04:51:14 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/7 Heat storage

A heat storage medium, like wax for instance, melted by the heat of compression from pressurizing the storage tank on the air powered car.  Then stored in the molten state in an insulated tank on the vehicle and used to heat the compressed air storage tank as it's pressure drops from supplying the engine, might just extend the range and efficiency of this design.

Brake heat could be recycled this way too.  that's the big efficiency problem with compressed air storage, the waste heat from compression.

If this were switched to a hybrid concept, waste heat from the internal combustion engine could also be fed into the air power system.

I think a hybrid like this would be best as an add on rear axle power unit for a front wheel drive car, as in the audi design.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Heat storage

A heat storage medium, like wax for instance, melted by the heat of compression from pressurizing the storage tank on the air powered car.  Then stored in the molten state in an insulated tank on the vehicle and used to heat the compressed air storage tank as it's pressure drops from supplying the engine, might just extend the range and efficiency of this design.

Brake heat could be recycled this way too.  that's the big efficiency problem with compressed air storage, the waste heat from compression.

If this were switched to a hybrid concept, waste heat from the internal combustion engine could also be fed into the air power system.

I think a hybrid like this would be best as an add on rear axle power unit for a front wheel drive car, as in the audi design.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #8 by GreyFlcn http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/ Wed, 21 Nov 2007 16:29:41 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/8 Uhm

I'd be a bit more skeptical about the "Air Car"

Thermodynamic Analysis of Compressed Air Vehicle Propulsion

]]> Uhm

I'd be a bit more skeptical about the "Air Car"

Thermodynamic Analysis of Compressed Air Vehicle Propulsion

]]> Comment #9 by Ron Steenblik http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/ Wed, 21 Nov 2007 23:49:54 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/french-connections/9 Um, GreyFlcn

This is what the paper you link to (date?) concludes:

"[S]uch efficiencies [40% or less] may still be attractive in a sustainable energy future when renewable energy is harvested as electricity and transportation needs must be satisfied from available energy sources. With respect to overall efficiency, battery-electric vehicles may be better than air cars, but hydrogen fuel cell systems may be worse. However, with respect to system and operating costs, air cars may offer many advantages such as simplicity, cost, independence, zero pollution and environmental friendliness of all system components.

"All in all, the compressed air car seems to be a viable option for clean and efficient short range transportation. Further analyses, additional research and development are most welcome to fully identify the potentials of this unconventional source of transportation energy."

]]> Um, GreyFlcn

This is what the paper you link to (date?) concludes:

"[S]uch efficiencies [40% or less] may still be attractive in a sustainable energy future when renewable energy is harvested as electricity and transportation needs must be satisfied from available energy sources. With respect to overall efficiency, battery-electric vehicles may be better than air cars, but hydrogen fuel cell systems may be worse. However, with respect to system and operating costs, air cars may offer many advantages such as simplicity, cost, independence, zero pollution and environmental friendliness of all system components.

"All in all, the compressed air car seems to be a viable option for clean and efficient short range transportation. Further analyses, additional research and development are most welcome to fully identify the potentials of this unconventional source of transportation energy."

]]>