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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Gates and Buffet to invest in tar sands and spawn more two-headed fish?]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by sindark</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/fishy-investments/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:40:43 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/fishy-investments/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Oil sands ethics<p>We are now at a juncture in time where we understand the magnitude of the threat posed by climate change, as well as the growing role the oil sands are playing in Canada's greenhouse gas emissions. It is simply immoral to assert that just because a resource is under your feet, you can exploit it regardless of the harm that does to others. While it is theoretically possible that future technologies will reduce the harm caused by oil sands extraction and upgrading, such technologies do not exist today and cannot serve to justify the destruction that is ongoing.<p>
If Gates does decide to invest, he will be adopting a deeply hypocritical position with respect to good global citizenship and the challenges facing the global poor. The IPCC and others have stressed that it will be many of the world's poorest people who suffer most from climate change. Projected impacts include droughts, famines, storms, and the increased spread of some infectious diseases. Hopefully, the actual sight of boreal forest being stripped mined and rendered toxic through greenhouse-gas-spewing industrial activities will put him off the investment idea.<p>
At present, oil sands operations are a bit like those who forge cash. The governmental position seems to be: "Maybe the cash forging does hurt everyone in the long run, but making them stop would destroy their business and have a dire short term impact on the local economy. We have to let them carry on."

<p><a href="http://www.sindark.com/" rel="nofollow">a sibilant intake of breath</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Oil sands ethics<p>We are now at a juncture in time where we understand the magnitude of the threat posed by climate change, as well as the growing role the oil sands are playing in Canada's greenhouse gas emissions. It is simply immoral to assert that just because a resource is under your feet, you can exploit it regardless of the harm that does to others. While it is theoretically possible that future technologies will reduce the harm caused by oil sands extraction and upgrading, such technologies do not exist today and cannot serve to justify the destruction that is ongoing.<p>
If Gates does decide to invest, he will be adopting a deeply hypocritical position with respect to good global citizenship and the challenges facing the global poor. The IPCC and others have stressed that it will be many of the world's poorest people who suffer most from climate change. Projected impacts include droughts, famines, storms, and the increased spread of some infectious diseases. Hopefully, the actual sight of boreal forest being stripped mined and rendered toxic through greenhouse-gas-spewing industrial activities will put him off the investment idea.<p>
At present, oil sands operations are a bit like those who forge cash. The governmental position seems to be: "Maybe the cash forging does hurt everyone in the long run, but making them stop would destroy their business and have a dire short term impact on the local economy. We have to let them carry on."

<p><a href="http://www.sindark.com/" rel="nofollow">a sibilant intake of breath</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Bart Anderson</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/fishy-investments/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:08:17 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/fishy-investments/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Good news<p><a href="http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=742983" rel="nofollow">Oil sands visit was not a shopping trip, says Buffett (Reuters):  Warren Buffett toured Canada's oil sands with his friend Bill Gates this week to understand how the resources are developed, but the billionaire investor said on Friday he had no plan to buy into the sector. They must have been listening to you, Joseph!

<p>Bart<br>
<a href="http://energybulletin.net" rel="nofollow">Energy Bulletin</a></br></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Good news<p><a href="http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=742983" rel="nofollow">Oil sands visit was not a shopping trip, says Buffett (Reuters):  Warren Buffett toured Canada's oil sands with his friend Bill Gates this week to understand how the resources are developed, but the billionaire investor said on Friday he had no plan to buy into the sector. They must have been listening to you, Joseph!

<p>Bart<br>
<a href="http://energybulletin.net" rel="nofollow">Energy Bulletin</a></br></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/fishy-investments/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:09:33 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/fishy-investments/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Gates, Buffet -- The New Poor<p>Gates and Buffet are really the beginning of a New Poor Class emerging from the post-90s billionaires. &nbsp; They have no way to keep their income flowing in the manner they are accustomed. &nbsp;They have overspread their assets...much of it in declining real estate and commodities. &nbsp; They have been basically idle for most of their lives and cannot connect in the world of small blogs and web 2.0<p>
<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2619313/Oil-boom-is-changing-the-landscape-and-finances-of-North-Dakota.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/us ...<p>
Meanwhile, the Average Guy is finally getting his turn at bat:<p>
Oil boom is changing the landscape and finances of North Dakota<p>
 His ranch sits two miles above the 365 million-year-old Bakken shale formation that holds the largest contiguous onshore oil deposit ever surveyed in North America - a sticky black "sea" of up to 4.3 billion recoverable barrels stretching across 25,000 square miles.<p>
The complicated geology meant that it was not viable to extract the oil until spiralling commodity prices and major advances in horizontal drilling technology combined during 2006. The first royalty payments started to roll in last year and some amazed beneficiaries even contacted the oil companies as they presumed their cheques had too many noughts.<p>
Oil prices currently stand around $115 a barrel, well above the $60 cut-off below which the viability of Bakken extraction would come into question. And there are few complaints about roller-coasting prices from the Kuppers.<br>
</br></p></p></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Gates, Buffet -- The New Poor<p>Gates and Buffet are really the beginning of a New Poor Class emerging from the post-90s billionaires. &nbsp; They have no way to keep their income flowing in the manner they are accustomed. &nbsp;They have overspread their assets...much of it in declining real estate and commodities. &nbsp; They have been basically idle for most of their lives and cannot connect in the world of small blogs and web 2.0<p>
<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2619313/Oil-boom-is-changing-the-landscape-and-finances-of-North-Dakota.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/us ...<p>
Meanwhile, the Average Guy is finally getting his turn at bat:<p>
Oil boom is changing the landscape and finances of North Dakota<p>
 His ranch sits two miles above the 365 million-year-old Bakken shale formation that holds the largest contiguous onshore oil deposit ever surveyed in North America - a sticky black "sea" of up to 4.3 billion recoverable barrels stretching across 25,000 square miles.<p>
The complicated geology meant that it was not viable to extract the oil until spiralling commodity prices and major advances in horizontal drilling technology combined during 2006. The first royalty payments started to roll in last year and some amazed beneficiaries even contacted the oil companies as they presumed their cheques had too many noughts.<p>
Oil prices currently stand around $115 a barrel, well above the $60 cut-off below which the viability of Bakken extraction would come into question. And there are few complaints about roller-coasting prices from the Kuppers.<br>
</br></p></p></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/fishy-investments/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:57:49 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/fishy-investments/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>all kinds of ethical issues here</strong></p><p>This is cute, from the last line of the Canadian article:</p><p>
&lt;&lt;<br>
The man said he kept the body, which he ate. He later said he wished he had kept the fish intact and had it mounted for posterity. </p><p>
&gt;&gt;</p><p>
According to the photo, the body of the double-jawed fish looked quite edible, and indeed potentially tasty.</p><p>
There was however no photo of the man who ate the fish, so we cannot tell if he too is edible and potentially tasty.</p><p>
Nice of him, though, wasn't it, with a burp, and a swipe of the napkin, as he lowered his wineglass, to take a bit of thought for posterity: human posterity, we may assume, and solely human.</p><p>
The spokesman for the Mikesew Cree, Georges Poitras, is himself no sage. &nbsp;"Fish" are "animals"; and what happens to "animals" has already happened to "human life," whether human beings realize it or not.<br>


<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>all kinds of ethical issues here</strong></p><p>This is cute, from the last line of the Canadian article:</p><p>
&lt;&lt;<br>
The man said he kept the body, which he ate. He later said he wished he had kept the fish intact and had it mounted for posterity. </p><p>
&gt;&gt;</p><p>
According to the photo, the body of the double-jawed fish looked quite edible, and indeed potentially tasty.</p><p>
There was however no photo of the man who ate the fish, so we cannot tell if he too is edible and potentially tasty.</p><p>
Nice of him, though, wasn't it, with a burp, and a swipe of the napkin, as he lowered his wineglass, to take a bit of thought for posterity: human posterity, we may assume, and solely human.</p><p>
The spokesman for the Mikesew Cree, Georges Poitras, is himself no sage. &nbsp;"Fish" are "animals"; and what happens to "animals" has already happened to "human life," whether human beings realize it or not.<br>


<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by katakanadian</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/fishy-investments/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 00:10:18 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/fishy-investments/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Bikers against the tar sands</strong></p><p>I've seen the tar sands myself and they are anything but "neat".</p><p>
&lt;object width="425" height="344"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aFnQ2jMrmME&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1"&gt;&lt;/param&gt&lt;param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"&gt;&lt;param&gt&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aFnQ2jMrmME&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt&lt;/object&gt</p><p>
The air got noticeably worse as we approached Fort Saskatchewan"Cancer Alley" where Premeir Stelmach has his constituency office to issue a statement on the unsustainability of the tar sands.</p><p>
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				<p><strong>Bikers against the tar sands</strong></p><p>I've seen the tar sands myself and they are anything but "neat".</p><p>
&lt;object width="425" height="344"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aFnQ2jMrmME&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1"&gt;&lt;/param&gt&lt;param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"&gt;&lt;param&gt&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aFnQ2jMrmME&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt&lt;/object&gt</p><p>
The air got noticeably worse as we approached Fort Saskatchewan"Cancer Alley" where Premeir Stelmach has his constituency office to issue a statement on the unsustainability of the tar sands.</p><p>
&lt;object width="425" height="344"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7XQVnP7QZaA&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1"&gt;&lt;/param&gt&lt;param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"&gt;&lt;/param&gt&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7XQVnP7QZaA&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt&lt;/object&gt</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/fishy-investments/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:58:31 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/fishy-investments/6</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Nice protest guys. We need more of this<p><br>


<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Nice protest guys. We need more of this<p><br>


<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></br></p></strong></p>
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