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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for We will build nothing, create nothing, inspire nothing of worth while in the grip of fear.]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Corey McKrill</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 07:08:34 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Non-violence<p>The latest issue of Orion has a piece by Mark Kurlansky about non-violence, which unfortunately is not available on their site. &nbsp;I think it's an excerpt from his <a href="http://www.powells.com/partner/25450/biblio/0679643354" rel="nofollow">book of the same title.

<p>Grist's <a href="http://grist.org/comments/interactivist" rel="nofollow">InterActivist ... creating a one-of-a-kind portrait of on-the-ground activism.</a></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Non-violence<p>The latest issue of Orion has a piece by Mark Kurlansky about non-violence, which unfortunately is not available on their site. &nbsp;I think it's an excerpt from his <a href="http://www.powells.com/partner/25450/biblio/0679643354" rel="nofollow">book of the same title.

<p>Grist's <a href="http://grist.org/comments/interactivist" rel="nofollow">InterActivist ... creating a one-of-a-kind portrait of on-the-ground activism.</a></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by sunflower</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 08:51:50 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Fascist Fear<p>Excellent writing from Thom Hartmann, Reclaiming The Issues: Islamic Or Republican Fascism?<p>
Finally, Wallace said, "The myth of fascist efficiency has deluded many people. ... Democracy, to crush fascism internally, must...develop the ability to keep people fully employed and at the same time balance the budget. It must put human beings first and dollars second. It must appeal to reason and decency and not to violence and deceit. We must not tolerate oppressive government or industrial oligarchy in the form of monopolies and cartels."<br>
<a href="http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0828-23.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0828-23.htm<p>
I met the face of fascist fear, personally, when I tried to talk to the press. &nbsp;<p>
Fear fascists, fear not what they say. &nbsp;Otherwise be free, happy, and without fear.</p></p></a></br></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Fascist Fear<p>Excellent writing from Thom Hartmann, Reclaiming The Issues: Islamic Or Republican Fascism?<p>
Finally, Wallace said, "The myth of fascist efficiency has deluded many people. ... Democracy, to crush fascism internally, must...develop the ability to keep people fully employed and at the same time balance the budget. It must put human beings first and dollars second. It must appeal to reason and decency and not to violence and deceit. We must not tolerate oppressive government or industrial oligarchy in the form of monopolies and cartels."<br>
<a href="http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0828-23.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0828-23.htm<p>
I met the face of fascist fear, personally, when I tried to talk to the press. &nbsp;<p>
Fear fascists, fear not what they say. &nbsp;Otherwise be free, happy, and without fear.</p></p></a></br></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:40:03 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>&quot;capacity for aggression&quot;</strong></p><p>Oh. &nbsp;Whoa. &nbsp;This is where democracy becomes a not very fun game to play at all.</p><p>
But then again, sort of around when the First Philosophers were inventing philosophy in Miletus, and Heraclitus was inventing his River business, the post-tyrannical Athenians were inventing democracy. &nbsp;And then, post-Persian-invasions, Aeschylus was inventing tragedy, arguably the greatest human art form: What We Want, versus What Must Happen, Regardless of What We Want.</p><p>
I think I have been hard on democracy lately. &nbsp;But in fact, while there is so much of democracy that does not deserve praise, I agree with Winston Churchill that it ends up far preferable to any other solution devised so far. &nbsp;And I certainly feel Fleur-de-Soleil's fear of fascism.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!</p></p>
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				<p><strong>&quot;capacity for aggression&quot;</strong></p><p>Oh. &nbsp;Whoa. &nbsp;This is where democracy becomes a not very fun game to play at all.</p><p>
But then again, sort of around when the First Philosophers were inventing philosophy in Miletus, and Heraclitus was inventing his River business, the post-tyrannical Athenians were inventing democracy. &nbsp;And then, post-Persian-invasions, Aeschylus was inventing tragedy, arguably the greatest human art form: What We Want, versus What Must Happen, Regardless of What We Want.</p><p>
I think I have been hard on democracy lately. &nbsp;But in fact, while there is so much of democracy that does not deserve praise, I agree with Winston Churchill that it ends up far preferable to any other solution devised so far. &nbsp;And I certainly feel Fleur-de-Soleil's fear of fascism.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by bookerly</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:14:41 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Nice Posts</strong></p><p><br>
&nbsp; David, &nbsp;nice post, you are absolutely right about not using fear as a motivator! &nbsp;And good responses.</p><p>
&nbsp; Facing anger, we want to flee or fight (or defend, which is how we view that fight impulse).</p><p>
&nbsp; Neither of these open our minds to hearing anything other than the anger.</p><p>
&nbsp; So, we learn nothing.</p><p>
&nbsp; No information is comunicated.</p><p>
patrick</p><p>
&nbsp; </br></p>
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				<p><strong>Nice Posts</strong></p><p><br>
&nbsp; David, &nbsp;nice post, you are absolutely right about not using fear as a motivator! &nbsp;And good responses.</p><p>
&nbsp; Facing anger, we want to flee or fight (or defend, which is how we view that fight impulse).</p><p>
&nbsp; Neither of these open our minds to hearing anything other than the anger.</p><p>
&nbsp; So, we learn nothing.</p><p>
&nbsp; No information is comunicated.</p><p>
patrick</p><p>
&nbsp; </br></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Backcut</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:14:27 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Scientific truth is the best weapon!<p>As I have seen many times, and some of you have seen recently from a link I have posted, some choose to present lies, deceptions and misinformation to generate hype and support against sane forestry management. <p>
As I have seen from the other way around (ie, back in the 80's with clearcutting and high-grading), it REALLY sucks to be caught in a lie. It used to be that if you didn't "wear green shorts" (promote maximum timber volume), your career wasn't going to go anywhere. Long ago, I chose to promote truth in science as my tribute to true environmentalism. In essence, if I couldn't back it up with sound science, I wasn't gonna do it willingly. (Of course, the spotted owls DID have something to do with that, too...heh)<p>
In truth, the true environmentalists also need to present truth and science, especially in court, for all to see. When you say things like "stop clearcutting the Roadless Areas and Sequoia groves", you're eventually going to get caught in such a lie. <p>
Gaining back the trust can be such a bitch. Just ask the latest Chief of the Forest Service....LOL

<p>Scenic pics at <a href="http://lhfotoware.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://lhfotoware.blogspot.com</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Scientific truth is the best weapon!<p>As I have seen many times, and some of you have seen recently from a link I have posted, some choose to present lies, deceptions and misinformation to generate hype and support against sane forestry management. <p>
As I have seen from the other way around (ie, back in the 80's with clearcutting and high-grading), it REALLY sucks to be caught in a lie. It used to be that if you didn't "wear green shorts" (promote maximum timber volume), your career wasn't going to go anywhere. Long ago, I chose to promote truth in science as my tribute to true environmentalism. In essence, if I couldn't back it up with sound science, I wasn't gonna do it willingly. (Of course, the spotted owls DID have something to do with that, too...heh)<p>
In truth, the true environmentalists also need to present truth and science, especially in court, for all to see. When you say things like "stop clearcutting the Roadless Areas and Sequoia groves", you're eventually going to get caught in such a lie. <p>
Gaining back the trust can be such a bitch. Just ask the latest Chief of the Forest Service....LOL

<p>Scenic pics at <a href="http://lhfotoware.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://lhfotoware.blogspot.com</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:31:42 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Smoke</strong></p><p>Smoke in the air from a big fire coming for your home. &nbsp;A huge Katrina like storm or a tornado. &nbsp;Drought taking the family farm. &nbsp;Mobs of refugees fleeing 120 degree plus heat waves. &nbsp;Storm water flooding NYC destroying the financial records. The cost of food and energy soaring. &nbsp;</p><p>
You have seen how your government has reacted so far. </p><p>
Nothing to fear but fear itself eyyh?</p><p>
Dream on. </p><p>
Listen to the ones who deny global climate disaster. &nbsp;Because it strokes their petty egoes. Because they have all the answers.</p><p>
Leave it to these "experts". &nbsp;They told you so, so many times before.</p><p>
We don't need to use fear, nature is using it already.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Smoke</strong></p><p>Smoke in the air from a big fire coming for your home. &nbsp;A huge Katrina like storm or a tornado. &nbsp;Drought taking the family farm. &nbsp;Mobs of refugees fleeing 120 degree plus heat waves. &nbsp;Storm water flooding NYC destroying the financial records. The cost of food and energy soaring. &nbsp;</p><p>
You have seen how your government has reacted so far. </p><p>
Nothing to fear but fear itself eyyh?</p><p>
Dream on. </p><p>
Listen to the ones who deny global climate disaster. &nbsp;Because it strokes their petty egoes. Because they have all the answers.</p><p>
Leave it to these "experts". &nbsp;They told you so, so many times before.</p><p>
We don't need to use fear, nature is using it already.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Backcut</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 21:53:20 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>More truth!<p>Whether it is man-caused global warming or "just a blip of warming in a natural process", you HAVE to admit that we need to manage our forests out of this problem or risk losing them altogether. You aren't going to preserve the mounting forest problems away. We've already surpassed 7.5 million acres burned this year and we still have a a full month of the worst part of fire season left. In the future, what will preservationists tell their grandchildren when asked "Why didn't you DO something!?!?!" You certainly can't blame it ALL on global warming. We CAN take measures to ensure that the best parts of our forests survive.

<p>Scenic pics at <a href="http://lhfotoware.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://lhfotoware.blogspot.com</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>More truth!<p>Whether it is man-caused global warming or "just a blip of warming in a natural process", you HAVE to admit that we need to manage our forests out of this problem or risk losing them altogether. You aren't going to preserve the mounting forest problems away. We've already surpassed 7.5 million acres burned this year and we still have a a full month of the worst part of fire season left. In the future, what will preservationists tell their grandchildren when asked "Why didn't you DO something!?!?!" You certainly can't blame it ALL on global warming. We CAN take measures to ensure that the best parts of our forests survive.

<p>Scenic pics at <a href="http://lhfotoware.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://lhfotoware.blogspot.com</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Tod</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 06:43:06 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/fear-and-environmentalism-more-more-more/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Fear IS effective</strong></p><p>David, </p><p>
With all due respect, and I do mean this as your writings always inspire me, I have to disagree with you on this one. </p><p>
First of all, you seem to equate fear with violence. There is no direct connection. Certainly, one can make a jump from one to the other and back, but one can do that with any two states of beings. There are myriad threads that connect all actions. Fear does NOT imply violence. Rather, it can compel cowardice, heroism, anger, sadness - you name it. </p><p>
More importantly, David, you must rememeber that we are running out of time to make changes. We should not rule any weapon out of our arsenal. Our greatest leaders, from Ghandi to Malcolm X all used fear, in some way or another, as motivators. The fear of falling behind, the fear of being usurped, the fear of the consequences of failing to radically rebel against an oppresive system. Not to get too political, but this is the failing of Dems and their pocket orgs, like MoveOn - they don't use all of the tools because they don't seek to lead the citizenry. Rather, they seek to coerce and co-opt. Understand that I'm far to the left of the Dem party and MoveOn, so I don't judge them for their failings, they are, to me, ineffective and will play no large role in the coming economic and lifestyle revolution that we will either engineer or will be forced upon us by nature. As with the equal rights movements of the 20th century, the Dems did not propel either, they simply followed along when the public pressure became too great. By this time, far too much suffering had transpired. &nbsp;My point, FEAR can be a proactive agent, can inspire radical change. I FEAR what my son will live through, and his children as well. I FEAR not doing my part to right things. I FEAR many things that are very much worth fearing, and this keeps me active and on my toes, both intellectually and physically. This is not to say that I live my life in fear, but fear is certaily an essential component among my daily motivators. </p><p>
Do not cast aside fear. Do not fear fear. Yes, it is often wielded recklessly, but this does not mean that it is a faulty mechanism. Again, our greatest leaders provide concrete examples of proper useage. Look to them, not the Republicans, for examples of how to use this tool. </p><p>
Again, David, thanks for your writing on the subject. It is a very necessary item for us all to analyze. 

<p>"Because the world doesn't matter if you don't have the strength to go ahead and choose something that's really true." - Julio Cortazar, Hopscotch</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Fear IS effective</strong></p><p>David, </p><p>
With all due respect, and I do mean this as your writings always inspire me, I have to disagree with you on this one. </p><p>
First of all, you seem to equate fear with violence. There is no direct connection. Certainly, one can make a jump from one to the other and back, but one can do that with any two states of beings. There are myriad threads that connect all actions. Fear does NOT imply violence. Rather, it can compel cowardice, heroism, anger, sadness - you name it. </p><p>
More importantly, David, you must rememeber that we are running out of time to make changes. We should not rule any weapon out of our arsenal. Our greatest leaders, from Ghandi to Malcolm X all used fear, in some way or another, as motivators. The fear of falling behind, the fear of being usurped, the fear of the consequences of failing to radically rebel against an oppresive system. Not to get too political, but this is the failing of Dems and their pocket orgs, like MoveOn - they don't use all of the tools because they don't seek to lead the citizenry. Rather, they seek to coerce and co-opt. Understand that I'm far to the left of the Dem party and MoveOn, so I don't judge them for their failings, they are, to me, ineffective and will play no large role in the coming economic and lifestyle revolution that we will either engineer or will be forced upon us by nature. As with the equal rights movements of the 20th century, the Dems did not propel either, they simply followed along when the public pressure became too great. By this time, far too much suffering had transpired. &nbsp;My point, FEAR can be a proactive agent, can inspire radical change. I FEAR what my son will live through, and his children as well. I FEAR not doing my part to right things. I FEAR many things that are very much worth fearing, and this keeps me active and on my toes, both intellectually and physically. This is not to say that I live my life in fear, but fear is certaily an essential component among my daily motivators. </p><p>
Do not cast aside fear. Do not fear fear. Yes, it is often wielded recklessly, but this does not mean that it is a faulty mechanism. Again, our greatest leaders provide concrete examples of proper useage. Look to them, not the Republicans, for examples of how to use this tool. </p><p>
Again, David, thanks for your writing on the subject. It is a very necessary item for us all to analyze. 

<p>"Because the world doesn't matter if you don't have the strength to go ahead and choose something that's really true." - Julio Cortazar, Hopscotch</p></p>
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