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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for The Farm Bill debate does hinge on subsidies]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-school/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 14:13:12 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-school/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Wow,<p>It's worse than even I imagined.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Wow,<p>It's worse than even I imagined.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Ron Steenblik</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-school/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:36:55 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-school/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Amen, sister!</strong></p><p>Thank you for setting the record straight. The Farm Bill is about subsidies, and until they are addressed, it verges on the irresponsible to treat them (as some others do, not you, Britt) as somehow secondary, almost an afterthought.</p><p>
However, do I correctly sense that you accept the view (shared with Senator Lugar? correct me, please, if I am wrong) that there exists some sacrosanct farm "envelope" -- an entitlement to a certain number of billions of dollars a year? It appears to me that reform proposals always talk of re-allocating the money to more worthy causes (conservation, food stamps, local markets), and never seem to ask whether the envelope itself is over-stuffed.</p>
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				<p><strong>Amen, sister!</strong></p><p>Thank you for setting the record straight. The Farm Bill is about subsidies, and until they are addressed, it verges on the irresponsible to treat them (as some others do, not you, Britt) as somehow secondary, almost an afterthought.</p><p>
However, do I correctly sense that you accept the view (shared with Senator Lugar? correct me, please, if I am wrong) that there exists some sacrosanct farm "envelope" -- an entitlement to a certain number of billions of dollars a year? It appears to me that reform proposals always talk of re-allocating the money to more worthy causes (conservation, food stamps, local markets), and never seem to ask whether the envelope itself is over-stuffed.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by lolagranola</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-school/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:36:35 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-school/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>but these are the changes I'd like to see...</strong></p><p>As one of the small farmers (I milk 30 cows) struggling to make ends meet, I'd like to see the farm bill relax many of the law that make it impossible for farmers my size to make any money. &nbsp;The farm bill concentrates on subsidies, and as a farmer, I'll tell you we don't want subsidies, we want a fair price for our products. &nbsp;But the government has made selling milk directly from the cow to the customer illegal. &nbsp;They have made it illegal for me to butcher my own animal and sell it to my neighbor. &nbsp;I can't make kefir, cheese, or yogurt in my kitchen to sell to my neighbor. &nbsp; THESE are the reasons so many farmers grow commodity crops! &nbsp;If direct farm-to-consumer commerce was unregulated, like it used to be, I'd bet you'd see more farmers producing food for their local area. &nbsp;And as farmers make THEIR OWN money, they'll invest in conservation programs, because they want to ensure a quality product, because that's what sells.</p><p>
The farm bill IS all about subsidies, but to make REAL change, LASTING change, the government has to stop regulating the farmers to death!</p>
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				<p><strong>but these are the changes I'd like to see...</strong></p><p>As one of the small farmers (I milk 30 cows) struggling to make ends meet, I'd like to see the farm bill relax many of the law that make it impossible for farmers my size to make any money. &nbsp;The farm bill concentrates on subsidies, and as a farmer, I'll tell you we don't want subsidies, we want a fair price for our products. &nbsp;But the government has made selling milk directly from the cow to the customer illegal. &nbsp;They have made it illegal for me to butcher my own animal and sell it to my neighbor. &nbsp;I can't make kefir, cheese, or yogurt in my kitchen to sell to my neighbor. &nbsp; THESE are the reasons so many farmers grow commodity crops! &nbsp;If direct farm-to-consumer commerce was unregulated, like it used to be, I'd bet you'd see more farmers producing food for their local area. &nbsp;And as farmers make THEIR OWN money, they'll invest in conservation programs, because they want to ensure a quality product, because that's what sells.</p><p>
The farm bill IS all about subsidies, but to make REAL change, LASTING change, the government has to stop regulating the farmers to death!</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Pangolin</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-school/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:01:36 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-school/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Bribes and kickbacks<p>Anybody who thinks that farm bills have anything to do with insuring the health and wellbeing of actual farmers or with the production of healthy, affordable, food is living in a dream world. <p>
Farm bills are rewards to corporate land owners and agribusiness interests who have the spare cash available to bribe a sufficient number of congresscritters. As a reward for thier bribes they are given kickbacks disguised as various sorts of price or crop supports. Of course the reason farm bills are larger than phone books is to ensure that only those who pay the bribes get the kickbacks. <p>
My local congressman conduit for graft, Wally Herger, is so adept that in a recent year my county recieved more in subsidies for the rice crop than the actual market price for the crop itself. That was in a normal crop year also. <p>
Don't expect any positive changes on this soon

<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Bribes and kickbacks<p>Anybody who thinks that farm bills have anything to do with insuring the health and wellbeing of actual farmers or with the production of healthy, affordable, food is living in a dream world. <p>
Farm bills are rewards to corporate land owners and agribusiness interests who have the spare cash available to bribe a sufficient number of congresscritters. As a reward for thier bribes they are given kickbacks disguised as various sorts of price or crop supports. Of course the reason farm bills are larger than phone books is to ensure that only those who pay the bribes get the kickbacks. <p>
My local congressman conduit for graft, Wally Herger, is so adept that in a recent year my county recieved more in subsidies for the rice crop than the actual market price for the crop itself. That was in a normal crop year also. <p>
Don't expect any positive changes on this soon

<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-school/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 00:38:04 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-school/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Regulation</strong></p><p>Yes Lola. &nbsp;Regulation was started up to ensure food safety. &nbsp;What happened?</p><p>
No food safety anymore. &nbsp;In fact govenment is used, by corrupt lobbying, to import unsafe, uninspected, unregulated &nbsp;corporate food and put local food production direct to consumers out of business.</p><p>
A farm market movement is underway to reverse that trend. &nbsp;Small farmers getting together to invest in the equipment to meet regulations. &nbsp;Now reform is needed to focus &nbsp;regulation &nbsp;on food safety again rather than monopoly corporate profits at any cost.</p><p>
The "free" marketeer talking point against food sagfety regulation is that corporations would never do anything to hurt their own business reputations. &nbsp;That lie is exposed almost daily now by the latest poison product revelation. &nbsp;Take aqua dots for instance.</p><p>
But local producers who are friends and neighbors of their customers actually do have a direct incentive to protect their reputation.</p><p>
Wouldn't it be nice to see farm market coops that operate all year round with local food available just like the big supermarket chains have imported agribizz GMO frankenfood available 24/7.</p><p>
Why not have renewable powered freezer and food processing facilities that store local food for year round use? &nbsp;Freezers are the perfect energy storage media for renewables.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Regulation</strong></p><p>Yes Lola. &nbsp;Regulation was started up to ensure food safety. &nbsp;What happened?</p><p>
No food safety anymore. &nbsp;In fact govenment is used, by corrupt lobbying, to import unsafe, uninspected, unregulated &nbsp;corporate food and put local food production direct to consumers out of business.</p><p>
A farm market movement is underway to reverse that trend. &nbsp;Small farmers getting together to invest in the equipment to meet regulations. &nbsp;Now reform is needed to focus &nbsp;regulation &nbsp;on food safety again rather than monopoly corporate profits at any cost.</p><p>
The "free" marketeer talking point against food sagfety regulation is that corporations would never do anything to hurt their own business reputations. &nbsp;That lie is exposed almost daily now by the latest poison product revelation. &nbsp;Take aqua dots for instance.</p><p>
But local producers who are friends and neighbors of their customers actually do have a direct incentive to protect their reputation.</p><p>
Wouldn't it be nice to see farm market coops that operate all year round with local food available just like the big supermarket chains have imported agribizz GMO frankenfood available 24/7.</p><p>
Why not have renewable powered freezer and food processing facilities that store local food for year round use? &nbsp;Freezers are the perfect energy storage media for renewables.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by lolagranola</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-school/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 02:04:18 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-school/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>who are the real winners in the farm subsidy game?</strong></p><p>One thing we haven't addressed in discussing the farm subsidy issue is who the real winners are. &nbsp;Yes, the 'rich' farmers, the corporate owned farmers are the winners, but take that one step further. &nbsp;The BANKS are the real winners in the subsidy game. &nbsp;How many hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars are tied up in big operations, ones who milk thousands of cows or till thousands of acres? &nbsp;In the Get Big or Get Out era banks were more than willing to lend anyone a few hundred thousand to follow the Get Big dream. &nbsp;With farm prices consistently low, how are the farmers supposed to pay back that money? &nbsp;Without subsidies to help pay the mortgage, many banks would be the proud owners of many farms. &nbsp;And if the current farmer couldn't make a go of it, who in their right mind would buy it? &nbsp;To piece it off and sell it would bring pennies on the dollar. &nbsp;And the banks would be bankrupt.</p><p>
To amazingdrx, the farm cooperative you speak of as part of this farm market movement is nothing new. &nbsp;I belong to a creamery cooperative started 40 years ago to help farmers pool their resources and bring their product (in my case, cheese) to market. &nbsp;And guess what? &nbsp;The creamery is rife with nepotism, finacial abuse, secrecy and poor decision making. &nbsp;Creating 'new' cooperatives to replace the old will only find the 'new' cooperatives, in 20-40 years, in the same situation as the old ones are in now.</p><p>
I see the only way for farmers to remain financially viable is relaxing the regulations. &nbsp;I know, I know, everyone talks about food safety, but what standards are there now? &nbsp;Pouring more money into a broken system won't fix it. &nbsp;Let the farmers who want a stab at financial independence to do it. &nbsp;Let consumers who have educated themselves on the benefits, and risks, of buying food directly off the farm have the authority to do so. &nbsp;I'm not saying that everyone needs to do this. &nbsp;Food safety in the commercial sector is extremely important, but for those farmers out there, like me, who want desperately to get off the government teat and make a respectable living, let us do it!</p>
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				<p><strong>who are the real winners in the farm subsidy game?</strong></p><p>One thing we haven't addressed in discussing the farm subsidy issue is who the real winners are. &nbsp;Yes, the 'rich' farmers, the corporate owned farmers are the winners, but take that one step further. &nbsp;The BANKS are the real winners in the subsidy game. &nbsp;How many hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars are tied up in big operations, ones who milk thousands of cows or till thousands of acres? &nbsp;In the Get Big or Get Out era banks were more than willing to lend anyone a few hundred thousand to follow the Get Big dream. &nbsp;With farm prices consistently low, how are the farmers supposed to pay back that money? &nbsp;Without subsidies to help pay the mortgage, many banks would be the proud owners of many farms. &nbsp;And if the current farmer couldn't make a go of it, who in their right mind would buy it? &nbsp;To piece it off and sell it would bring pennies on the dollar. &nbsp;And the banks would be bankrupt.</p><p>
To amazingdrx, the farm cooperative you speak of as part of this farm market movement is nothing new. &nbsp;I belong to a creamery cooperative started 40 years ago to help farmers pool their resources and bring their product (in my case, cheese) to market. &nbsp;And guess what? &nbsp;The creamery is rife with nepotism, finacial abuse, secrecy and poor decision making. &nbsp;Creating 'new' cooperatives to replace the old will only find the 'new' cooperatives, in 20-40 years, in the same situation as the old ones are in now.</p><p>
I see the only way for farmers to remain financially viable is relaxing the regulations. &nbsp;I know, I know, everyone talks about food safety, but what standards are there now? &nbsp;Pouring more money into a broken system won't fix it. &nbsp;Let the farmers who want a stab at financial independence to do it. &nbsp;Let consumers who have educated themselves on the benefits, and risks, of buying food directly off the farm have the authority to do so. &nbsp;I'm not saying that everyone needs to do this. &nbsp;Food safety in the commercial sector is extremely important, but for those farmers out there, like me, who want desperately to get off the government teat and make a respectable living, let us do it!</p>
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