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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Don&#8217;t let Big Meat slaughter the packer ban]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 04:48:07 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>help!,</strong></p><p>I seem to have fallen through the cracks. &nbsp;That is, while this post was briefly still up, I wrote and sent a comment titled "CAFOization and its discontents." &nbsp;It has got lost, however; I cannot recover it. &nbsp;It is listed in my "Your Comments" index, under a blank post title "Re: &nbsp; "; and when I try to open it, I get a message saying something like, "Sorry, I cannot find that post."

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>help!,</strong></p><p>I seem to have fallen through the cracks. &nbsp;That is, while this post was briefly still up, I wrote and sent a comment titled "CAFOization and its discontents." &nbsp;It has got lost, however; I cannot recover it. &nbsp;It is listed in my "Your Comments" index, under a blank post title "Re: &nbsp; "; and when I try to open it, I get a message saying something like, "Sorry, I cannot find that post."

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Tom Philpott</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 06:46:07 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Sorry, Canis...<p>...all traces of the original post, comments included, have vanished. Please try to reconstruct your comment. 

<p><a href="http://grist.org/cgi-bin/search.pl?gristcat=Victual%20Reality&amp;sort=gristdate&amp;reverse=on&amp;archives=yes" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Sorry, Canis...<p>...all traces of the original post, comments included, have vanished. Please try to reconstruct your comment. 

<p><a href="http://grist.org/cgi-bin/search.pl?gristcat=Victual%20Reality&amp;sort=gristdate&amp;reverse=on&amp;archives=yes" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Jason D Scorse</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:22:02 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>yet another reason to go vegetarian<p>if there weren't enough already.

<p>I teach environmental economics and blog at <a href="http://www.voicesofreason.info" rel="nofollow">http://www.voicesofreason.info.</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>yet another reason to go vegetarian<p>if there weren't enough already.

<p>I teach environmental economics and blog at <a href="http://www.voicesofreason.info" rel="nofollow">http://www.voicesofreason.info.</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Liz Borkowski</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:57:37 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>More swine, more MRSA<p>That jump in hog production is particularly alarming given the new research that's just come out on swine and MRSA (methicillin-resistant stapholococcus aureus), an antibiotic-resistant bacteria that can cause skin infections and even death. Basically, there's now evidence that MRSA can spread from swine to humans.<p>
<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2007/11/mrsa_and_swine_collision_cours.php" rel="nofollow">Aetiology and <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2007/11/mrsa_the_pig_contributes_to_th.php" rel="nofollow">Effect Measure explain the new research, and <a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/11/07/staph/index.html" rel="nofollow">Salon has a good article about antibiotics in livestock.</a></a></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>More swine, more MRSA<p>That jump in hog production is particularly alarming given the new research that's just come out on swine and MRSA (methicillin-resistant stapholococcus aureus), an antibiotic-resistant bacteria that can cause skin infections and even death. Basically, there's now evidence that MRSA can spread from swine to humans.<p>
<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2007/11/mrsa_and_swine_collision_cours.php" rel="nofollow">Aetiology and <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2007/11/mrsa_the_pig_contributes_to_th.php" rel="nofollow">Effect Measure explain the new research, and <a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/11/07/staph/index.html" rel="nofollow">Salon has a good article about antibiotics in livestock.</a></a></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Tom Philpott</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 00:45:41 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Right, Liz<p>When you stuff hundreds of hogs together in pens literally on top of cesspools, their immune systems essentially vanish. And antibiotics become an important part of their diet regime -- and a major element in their waste that gets spread on fields and leeches into groundwater. Elizabeth Royte's <a href="http://www.grist.org/feature/2007/10/16/mississippi/" rel="nofollow">recent piece on Grist also touches on this topic. 

<p><a href="http://grist.org/cgi-bin/search.pl?gristcat=Victual%20Reality&amp;sort=gristdate&amp;reverse=on&amp;archives=yes" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Right, Liz<p>When you stuff hundreds of hogs together in pens literally on top of cesspools, their immune systems essentially vanish. And antibiotics become an important part of their diet regime -- and a major element in their waste that gets spread on fields and leeches into groundwater. Elizabeth Royte's <a href="http://www.grist.org/feature/2007/10/16/mississippi/" rel="nofollow">recent piece on Grist also touches on this topic. 

<p><a href="http://grist.org/cgi-bin/search.pl?gristcat=Victual%20Reality&amp;sort=gristdate&amp;reverse=on&amp;archives=yes" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by kmp</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 02:59:35 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>But....</strong></p><p>How exactly is "meat processor" defined? &nbsp;Couldn't this measure actually hurt small, local farm networks that are trying to band together to establish their own meat processing facility (often with more rigorous and humane standards)?</p><p>
Call me cynical, but I don't see that this ban would really touch the Big Boys all that much. &nbsp;Would they not simply "sell" their livestock interests to another "company" over which they actually have complete control with respect to animal conditions, pricing, slaughter schedule, etc., etc.? &nbsp;And who would enforce this ban - the USDA? I guess it seems to me like yet another piece of legislature that could, in the end, wind up hurting the small family farmer even more.</p><p>
I'm sure you have a more enlightened view of this, Tom, actually being a farmer (instead of someone who simply eats food). &nbsp;Please, tell me what I'm missing?</p><p>
Kaela</p>
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				<p><strong>But....</strong></p><p>How exactly is "meat processor" defined? &nbsp;Couldn't this measure actually hurt small, local farm networks that are trying to band together to establish their own meat processing facility (often with more rigorous and humane standards)?</p><p>
Call me cynical, but I don't see that this ban would really touch the Big Boys all that much. &nbsp;Would they not simply "sell" their livestock interests to another "company" over which they actually have complete control with respect to animal conditions, pricing, slaughter schedule, etc., etc.? &nbsp;And who would enforce this ban - the USDA? I guess it seems to me like yet another piece of legislature that could, in the end, wind up hurting the small family farmer even more.</p><p>
I'm sure you have a more enlightened view of this, Tom, actually being a farmer (instead of someone who simply eats food). &nbsp;Please, tell me what I'm missing?</p><p>
Kaela</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Aimee Witteman</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:27:03 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>UFCW announces support for the packer ban</strong></p><p>In an important, related develpment to Tom's post, the United Food and Commerical Workers International Union announced today that they are endorsing the ban on packer ownership of livestock. &nbsp;In their press release and full page ad run in Roll Call (a publication circulated on Captiol Hill), the Union stated that when packers own livestock the companies can move livestock and production to wherever they can find the cheapest land and labor. &nbsp;</p><p>
UFCW's support for the packer ban is a huge development - important in terms of securing enough votes during the Senate's consideration of the farm bill and in highlighting the impact of market concentration on meatpacking workers. &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>UFCW announces support for the packer ban</strong></p><p>In an important, related develpment to Tom's post, the United Food and Commerical Workers International Union announced today that they are endorsing the ban on packer ownership of livestock. &nbsp;In their press release and full page ad run in Roll Call (a publication circulated on Captiol Hill), the Union stated that when packers own livestock the companies can move livestock and production to wherever they can find the cheapest land and labor. &nbsp;</p><p>
UFCW's support for the packer ban is a huge development - important in terms of securing enough votes during the Senate's consideration of the farm bill and in highlighting the impact of market concentration on meatpacking workers. &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by jarmadi</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 04:24:50 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Package Deal</strong></p><p>I still think that it will turn out to be a mistake to attempt to ban packer ownership of all varieties of livestock all at once as a package deal. &nbsp;They should initially focus on packer/grain company ownership of feeder cattle. &nbsp;Although feeder cattle are presently 80% coporate owned, these corporations have very little financial investment in feeding facilities. &nbsp;As corporate feeder ownership is phased out, the prior individual players and ranchers that would maintain ownership of their own cattle would replace them. &nbsp;The change would cost some corporate profits, but probably only chump change to them.</p><p>
Banning corporate ownership of hogs and poultry &nbsp;is a whole other story. &nbsp;With these animals, the corporate vertically integrated system goes from birth to dinner plate and involves extensive corporate investment. &nbsp;I think that it makes sense to get your foot in the door with cattle, and then take your chances later with hogs, then poultry.</p>
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				<p><strong>Package Deal</strong></p><p>I still think that it will turn out to be a mistake to attempt to ban packer ownership of all varieties of livestock all at once as a package deal. &nbsp;They should initially focus on packer/grain company ownership of feeder cattle. &nbsp;Although feeder cattle are presently 80% coporate owned, these corporations have very little financial investment in feeding facilities. &nbsp;As corporate feeder ownership is phased out, the prior individual players and ranchers that would maintain ownership of their own cattle would replace them. &nbsp;The change would cost some corporate profits, but probably only chump change to them.</p><p>
Banning corporate ownership of hogs and poultry &nbsp;is a whole other story. &nbsp;With these animals, the corporate vertically integrated system goes from birth to dinner plate and involves extensive corporate investment. &nbsp;I think that it makes sense to get your foot in the door with cattle, and then take your chances later with hogs, then poultry.</p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by Farm Bill Girl</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:55:16 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/farm-bill-beware-the-industrial-meat-complex/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>The REAL welfare queens<p>Thanks for the attention to the packer ban. A pity that so-called farm bill "reform" groups have completely &nbsp;neglected the issues of corporate consolidation that are the root of our broken food systems, and instead, train all their ire on "millionaire" farmers getting subsidies.<p>
Something to mention: Smithfield, Tyson, Cargill etc, are also the REAL beneficiaries of our subsidy system. Thanks to taxpayers subsidizing corn below the cost of production, the factory farm packers are the ones who have profitted by the BILLIONS due to cheap feed. Thus why they are so angry about ethanol and the higher corn prices. Taxpayer subsidies have thus gone to farmers to help make up for that lost income. According to Tufts University, the poultry and hog industry saved $11 billion over the past decade thanks to below-cost feed.<p>
Again, the "reform" groups (including the hilariously misnamed "Environmental Defense" -- whose farm bill analyst, Scott Faber, now lobbies for Grocery Manufacturers of America who never met a food safety standard law they liked!) ignores how it's these multinationals who are the real beneficiaires of our flawed subsidy system, not the demonized corn farmers of Iowa.<p>
See their research here:<p>
<a href="http://www.ase.tufts.edu/gdae/policy_research/BroilerGains.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ase.tufts.edu/gdae/policy_research/BroilerGain ...</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>The REAL welfare queens<p>Thanks for the attention to the packer ban. A pity that so-called farm bill "reform" groups have completely &nbsp;neglected the issues of corporate consolidation that are the root of our broken food systems, and instead, train all their ire on "millionaire" farmers getting subsidies.<p>
Something to mention: Smithfield, Tyson, Cargill etc, are also the REAL beneficiaries of our subsidy system. Thanks to taxpayers subsidizing corn below the cost of production, the factory farm packers are the ones who have profitted by the BILLIONS due to cheap feed. Thus why they are so angry about ethanol and the higher corn prices. Taxpayer subsidies have thus gone to farmers to help make up for that lost income. According to Tufts University, the poultry and hog industry saved $11 billion over the past decade thanks to below-cost feed.<p>
Again, the "reform" groups (including the hilariously misnamed "Environmental Defense" -- whose farm bill analyst, Scott Faber, now lobbies for Grocery Manufacturers of America who never met a food safety standard law they liked!) ignores how it's these multinationals who are the real beneficiaires of our flawed subsidy system, not the demonized corn farmers of Iowa.<p>
See their research here:<p>
<a href="http://www.ase.tufts.edu/gdae/policy_research/BroilerGains.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ase.tufts.edu/gdae/policy_research/BroilerGain ...</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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