<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom">
<channel>
	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Environmental ethics]]></title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.grist.org/rss/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
	<language>en</language>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #1 by jdhlax</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/environmental-ethics/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:08:37 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/environmental-ethics/1</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Where Differences Matter</strong></p><p>I agree with working together when we can, which should be most of the time. &nbsp;However, there are times when misanthropes and anthropocentrics want opposite results. &nbsp;Killing trees to save humans from natural wildfires is a good example.

<p>Jeff Hoffman</p></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Where Differences Matter</strong></p><p>I agree with working together when we can, which should be most of the time. &nbsp;However, there are times when misanthropes and anthropocentrics want opposite results. &nbsp;Killing trees to save humans from natural wildfires is a good example.

<p>Jeff Hoffman</p></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #2 by yankee</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/environmental-ethics/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 07 Mar 2006 04:44:24 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/environmental-ethics/2</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>What about the other extreme?<p>I only briefly started reading some papers by Light not long ago, but I ended up sidetracked. Still, maybe you could explain one thing, Dave. It seems like the extreme endpoint of anthropocentric environmental ethics is that humans should be able to hold dominion over nature: control it and (recklessly) take from it what we want. Yet, that extreme is not at all reflected in what you write in this post. I can see how academic philosophers take theoretically divergent positions while all the while actually supporting a healthy environment, but where does the extreme position--which seems to be reflected by governments and corporations--fit in? Maybe it's just not ethical, and therefore doesn't fit into the purview of the discipline. 

<p>yankee (<a href="http://www.theoildrum.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.theoildrum.com)</a></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>What about the other extreme?<p>I only briefly started reading some papers by Light not long ago, but I ended up sidetracked. Still, maybe you could explain one thing, Dave. It seems like the extreme endpoint of anthropocentric environmental ethics is that humans should be able to hold dominion over nature: control it and (recklessly) take from it what we want. Yet, that extreme is not at all reflected in what you write in this post. I can see how academic philosophers take theoretically divergent positions while all the while actually supporting a healthy environment, but where does the extreme position--which seems to be reflected by governments and corporations--fit in? Maybe it's just not ethical, and therefore doesn't fit into the purview of the discipline. 

<p>yankee (<a href="http://www.theoildrum.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.theoildrum.com)</a></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #3 by birdboy</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/environmental-ethics/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 07 Mar 2006 05:19:12 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/environmental-ethics/3</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>whose environment is it?</strong></p><p>It's not that we want to 'settle the philosophical question' (we each know that we are right) but that the biocentrist perspective has been blamed for the 'impotence' of the movement, and it is (undeniably) an easy target for those with opposite goals. That and the undercurrent some of us have sensed for a rejection of biocentrism and the conversion of environmentalism to humanitarianism. We have reacted by challenging the human-centered view, which is frequently at odds with our biocentrist goals. Dave, if you cannot see the value of natural things outside their usefulness to human survival and comfort, why should you care if Nature survives the human cancer? Does the bird not value his freedom or the trees he needs to survive? If all you care about is human, all else is surely doomed.</p><p>
I'm afraid that humanity CAN survive the death of Nature- it would be an ugly, cold world (to me), but If we are to line up behind an 'index card' (and I think we should), then we must reach an agreement about our motivations- do we value Nature in and of itself- in effect, does wilderness, with no human presence, have any right to exist if humanity needs the space or 'resources'? Couldn't we just build a big air and water purifier that would serve the same purpose for humanity? Is it just because it's pretty to look at? Here- try this hologram- you won't know the difference. Or will you?</p><p>
Absolutely, we must act together with unified force. But that requires doing things that satisfy both goals, and as Jeff points out, sometimes they DO conflict. Perhaps we should look into the places where they conflict and work out our differences (or better yet, define our parallels).

<p>a liberal in redsville</p></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>whose environment is it?</strong></p><p>It's not that we want to 'settle the philosophical question' (we each know that we are right) but that the biocentrist perspective has been blamed for the 'impotence' of the movement, and it is (undeniably) an easy target for those with opposite goals. That and the undercurrent some of us have sensed for a rejection of biocentrism and the conversion of environmentalism to humanitarianism. We have reacted by challenging the human-centered view, which is frequently at odds with our biocentrist goals. Dave, if you cannot see the value of natural things outside their usefulness to human survival and comfort, why should you care if Nature survives the human cancer? Does the bird not value his freedom or the trees he needs to survive? If all you care about is human, all else is surely doomed.</p><p>
I'm afraid that humanity CAN survive the death of Nature- it would be an ugly, cold world (to me), but If we are to line up behind an 'index card' (and I think we should), then we must reach an agreement about our motivations- do we value Nature in and of itself- in effect, does wilderness, with no human presence, have any right to exist if humanity needs the space or 'resources'? Couldn't we just build a big air and water purifier that would serve the same purpose for humanity? Is it just because it's pretty to look at? Here- try this hologram- you won't know the difference. Or will you?</p><p>
Absolutely, we must act together with unified force. But that requires doing things that satisfy both goals, and as Jeff points out, sometimes they DO conflict. Perhaps we should look into the places where they conflict and work out our differences (or better yet, define our parallels).

<p>a liberal in redsville</p></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #4 by Tim Abbott</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/environmental-ethics/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 07 Mar 2006 06:01:00 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/environmental-ethics/4</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Values and Conservation</strong></p><p>This ethical question is a good one, and inspires the following, value-laden response:</p><p>
There is not a square inch of planet Earth - air, land or sea - that is not affected by human values and the choices they inform. &nbsp;That is different from saying that the existence of the planet and all the organisms it sustains matters only to the extent that humans place some worth on them. &nbsp;Nor do I subscribe to the value system that believes in a divinely reordered New Earth regardless of human intention. &nbsp;However, treating humanity as somehow separate from and distinct from the environment is neither ecologically sound nor sustainable. &nbsp;</p><p>
Remove pastoralists from nature preserves in East Africa and watch, as David Western recounts, overall wildlife health decline as grasses, unpalatable to antelope and elephant but browsed for at least two millennia by cattle, proliferate. &nbsp;Act in self-interest only, and prove Garrett Hardin right not only about the Tragedy of the Commons, but of the Private as well. </p><p>
Human behavior reflects our values, and this is true for the choices we make as individuals and as groups. &nbsp;The range of constraints and resources available to us defines our arena of choice. &nbsp;If we wish to change our behaviors, and the repetitive patterns of behavior that comprise our institutions, then we need both to understand the values that inform our problematic actions and broaden our arena of choice.</p><p>
Conservation is entirely about values. &nbsp;One of these is a belief that we can and should take responsibility for the consequences of our actions for the rest of the environment. &nbsp;Another is that simply letting "nature take its course" &nbsp;will nonetheless result in human-influenced outcomes. &nbsp;Conservation is about making informed choices and recognizing the value in maintaining and promoting value-laden attributes of our environment: wilderness, biodiversity, the view from the back porch, sustainable rural economies, dark skies, community character, finite resources.</p><p>
Quantifying ecosystem services, while statistically interesting, has not been a universally convincing argument for conservation. &nbsp;The invisible hand of the market has neither created just and equitable human societies nor safeguarded shared environmental resources. &nbsp;It takes intentionality to achieve these values-based ends. &nbsp;</p><p>
How resource users feel about their environment, their relationship with it and to other stakeholders in its conservation, is a critical determinant in how they perceive their area of choice and what outcomes they will support. &nbsp;The broader lesson of the Intelligent Design controversy may be that values can trump science, but values can change. </p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Values and Conservation</strong></p><p>This ethical question is a good one, and inspires the following, value-laden response:</p><p>
There is not a square inch of planet Earth - air, land or sea - that is not affected by human values and the choices they inform. &nbsp;That is different from saying that the existence of the planet and all the organisms it sustains matters only to the extent that humans place some worth on them. &nbsp;Nor do I subscribe to the value system that believes in a divinely reordered New Earth regardless of human intention. &nbsp;However, treating humanity as somehow separate from and distinct from the environment is neither ecologically sound nor sustainable. &nbsp;</p><p>
Remove pastoralists from nature preserves in East Africa and watch, as David Western recounts, overall wildlife health decline as grasses, unpalatable to antelope and elephant but browsed for at least two millennia by cattle, proliferate. &nbsp;Act in self-interest only, and prove Garrett Hardin right not only about the Tragedy of the Commons, but of the Private as well. </p><p>
Human behavior reflects our values, and this is true for the choices we make as individuals and as groups. &nbsp;The range of constraints and resources available to us defines our arena of choice. &nbsp;If we wish to change our behaviors, and the repetitive patterns of behavior that comprise our institutions, then we need both to understand the values that inform our problematic actions and broaden our arena of choice.</p><p>
Conservation is entirely about values. &nbsp;One of these is a belief that we can and should take responsibility for the consequences of our actions for the rest of the environment. &nbsp;Another is that simply letting "nature take its course" &nbsp;will nonetheless result in human-influenced outcomes. &nbsp;Conservation is about making informed choices and recognizing the value in maintaining and promoting value-laden attributes of our environment: wilderness, biodiversity, the view from the back porch, sustainable rural economies, dark skies, community character, finite resources.</p><p>
Quantifying ecosystem services, while statistically interesting, has not been a universally convincing argument for conservation. &nbsp;The invisible hand of the market has neither created just and equitable human societies nor safeguarded shared environmental resources. &nbsp;It takes intentionality to achieve these values-based ends. &nbsp;</p><p>
How resource users feel about their environment, their relationship with it and to other stakeholders in its conservation, is a critical determinant in how they perceive their area of choice and what outcomes they will support. &nbsp;The broader lesson of the Intelligent Design controversy may be that values can trump science, but values can change. </p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #5 by eeprincess</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/environmental-ethics/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:45:00 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/environmental-ethics/5</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>&quot;The earth isn't going anywhere...&quot;</strong></p><p>"... We are!"<br>
This post reminds me of George Carlin's bit about "save the earth". &nbsp;Nature is precious to us because it sustains us, and we should respect it for that reason. &nbsp;Beyond that, nature has much more power than we do. &nbsp;It could purge us from the planet in a heartbeat. &nbsp;So to presume that we are the "keepers" of nature and its inherent value is tres fou.</br></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>&quot;The earth isn't going anywhere...&quot;</strong></p><p>"... We are!"<br>
This post reminds me of George Carlin's bit about "save the earth". &nbsp;Nature is precious to us because it sustains us, and we should respect it for that reason. &nbsp;Beyond that, nature has much more power than we do. &nbsp;It could purge us from the planet in a heartbeat. &nbsp;So to presume that we are the "keepers" of nature and its inherent value is tres fou.</br></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
 </channel>
</rss>