<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom">
<channel>
	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Hint: We&#8217;re talking about Congress here]]></title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.grist.org/rss/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
	<language>en</language>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #1 by JMG</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 03:46:15 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/1</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>I'm gonna be sick</strong></p><p>A perfect vomit-inducing segue ... I went from reading this great post and the NYT stories to my e-mail and found this from the Pretend League of Conservation Voters, claiming that raising CAFE standards 4% a year will help ensure a livable future for our children.</p><p>
In other words, the $&amp;#*#%^@! so-called CONSERVATION organizations are signing up for selling the message that keeping the automobile age going is GOOD for the planet.</p><p>
I'm going to start calling coal-to-liquids "the Nazi approach," because that makes clear that anyone who is trying to keep the auto-centric planet going is a collaborator with pure evil. &nbsp;Because keeping the auto age going means demanding liquid fuels, and anyone asking for liquid fuels is asking that more coal be burned, either to make biofuels or to make CTL fuels.</p><p>
<br>
Dear JMG,</p><p>
Gas prices have hit a record high. Let's hit back.</p><p>
Help us get large corporate polluters to back off and Congress to step up!</p><p>
Donate today!</p><p>
How much did you pay at the pump this Memorial Day weekend?</p><p>
Sky-high gas prices have made Americans uneasily aware of our dangerous dependence on oil ... and the critical need for fuel-efficient cars.</p><p>
Right now, with the right resources, we can do something that would have been unthinkable a decade, or even a year, ago: pass critical clean energy legislation.</p><p>
As early as June, Congress will be voting on bills that will go farther than ever to curb global warming and our reliance on oil.</p><p>
LCV is on Capitol Hill, securing votes, but we also need to secure our own resources.</p><p>
Donate $35, $50, or $100 today -- help us raise $25,000 by June 1.</p><p>
Thanks to supporters like you, we are well on our way to our goal. We're off to a great start, but we need to pick up the pace if we're going to have the resources to ensure vital bills in Congress are passed in the next few weeks.</p><p>
The battle for fuel-efficiency continues to intensify on Capitol Hill and a vote could come any day. It may sound revolutionary -- but the truth is: fuel efficiency is a simple, easy step we can take toward ensuring a healthy, livable planet for our children.</p><p>
Here's why:</p><p>
The benefits are tremendous. Increasing our fuel economy standards will save consumers billions of dollars at the gas pump, drastically cut our oil dependency, and curb dangerous global warming pollution.</p><p>
The technology exists. The National Academy of Sciences says American industry is ready to increase fuel economy standards by 4% a year without affecting safety.</p><p>
The drivers are ready. Americans have already started buying hybrid vehicles, and other fuel-efficient cars, in record numbers. Many models are so popular, consumers have to sign up for a wait-list!</p><p>
It's an obvious solution, but the large corporate polluters and their allies are doing everything they can to stop it. Help us stop them. Give to LCV today, and invest in an answer to many of our country's energy challenges and opportunities.</p><p>
Give now. Help us raise $25,000 by June 1 to help intensify our efforts for the coming weeks.</p><p>
Thank you for your continued support.</p><p>
Sincerely,</p><p>
Gene Karpinski<br>
President<br>
League of Conservation Voters

<p>Save the world:  Reduce greenhouse gas emissions 5% annually.</p></br></br></br></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>I'm gonna be sick</strong></p><p>A perfect vomit-inducing segue ... I went from reading this great post and the NYT stories to my e-mail and found this from the Pretend League of Conservation Voters, claiming that raising CAFE standards 4% a year will help ensure a livable future for our children.</p><p>
In other words, the $&amp;#*#%^@! so-called CONSERVATION organizations are signing up for selling the message that keeping the automobile age going is GOOD for the planet.</p><p>
I'm going to start calling coal-to-liquids "the Nazi approach," because that makes clear that anyone who is trying to keep the auto-centric planet going is a collaborator with pure evil. &nbsp;Because keeping the auto age going means demanding liquid fuels, and anyone asking for liquid fuels is asking that more coal be burned, either to make biofuels or to make CTL fuels.</p><p>
<br>
Dear JMG,</p><p>
Gas prices have hit a record high. Let's hit back.</p><p>
Help us get large corporate polluters to back off and Congress to step up!</p><p>
Donate today!</p><p>
How much did you pay at the pump this Memorial Day weekend?</p><p>
Sky-high gas prices have made Americans uneasily aware of our dangerous dependence on oil ... and the critical need for fuel-efficient cars.</p><p>
Right now, with the right resources, we can do something that would have been unthinkable a decade, or even a year, ago: pass critical clean energy legislation.</p><p>
As early as June, Congress will be voting on bills that will go farther than ever to curb global warming and our reliance on oil.</p><p>
LCV is on Capitol Hill, securing votes, but we also need to secure our own resources.</p><p>
Donate $35, $50, or $100 today -- help us raise $25,000 by June 1.</p><p>
Thanks to supporters like you, we are well on our way to our goal. We're off to a great start, but we need to pick up the pace if we're going to have the resources to ensure vital bills in Congress are passed in the next few weeks.</p><p>
The battle for fuel-efficiency continues to intensify on Capitol Hill and a vote could come any day. It may sound revolutionary -- but the truth is: fuel efficiency is a simple, easy step we can take toward ensuring a healthy, livable planet for our children.</p><p>
Here's why:</p><p>
The benefits are tremendous. Increasing our fuel economy standards will save consumers billions of dollars at the gas pump, drastically cut our oil dependency, and curb dangerous global warming pollution.</p><p>
The technology exists. The National Academy of Sciences says American industry is ready to increase fuel economy standards by 4% a year without affecting safety.</p><p>
The drivers are ready. Americans have already started buying hybrid vehicles, and other fuel-efficient cars, in record numbers. Many models are so popular, consumers have to sign up for a wait-list!</p><p>
It's an obvious solution, but the large corporate polluters and their allies are doing everything they can to stop it. Help us stop them. Give to LCV today, and invest in an answer to many of our country's energy challenges and opportunities.</p><p>
Give now. Help us raise $25,000 by June 1 to help intensify our efforts for the coming weeks.</p><p>
Thank you for your continued support.</p><p>
Sincerely,</p><p>
Gene Karpinski<br>
President<br>
League of Conservation Voters

<p>Save the world:  Reduce greenhouse gas emissions 5% annually.</p></br></br></br></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #2 by Ron Steenblik</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 03:51:33 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/2</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Subsidies everywhere<p>Thanks for posting the NYT article on coal, David. I had seen it earlier today and was hoping somebody mention it on Grist. It is much meatier than the typical NYT articles on biofuels, IMHO.<p>
Don't politicians ever learn from history -- specifically the "energy crisis" of the 1970s, when there was a similar sense of a need to "do something", which in too many cases resulted in heavily subsidized white elephants? Once again, sober, ex ante analysis of the various policy analysis has been sacrificed to expediency. <p>
A case in point. Does the proposed tax credit of 51 cents for every gallon of coal-based fuel sold (through 2020!!) ring a bell? It should: it is exactly the same rate as the Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit (VEETC). I'll bet a team of policy wonks ran their models day and night to come up with that number!<p>
We're talking <a href="http://www.anc.org.za/ancdocs/pr/1980s/pr850300.html" rel="nofollow">aprtheid-era policies here: subsidies for building the plants, price floors and production subsidies, and guaranteed markets &nbsp;for the fuel itself (not only from the military but, in the U.S. case through the proposed "alternative fuel standard").</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Subsidies everywhere<p>Thanks for posting the NYT article on coal, David. I had seen it earlier today and was hoping somebody mention it on Grist. It is much meatier than the typical NYT articles on biofuels, IMHO.<p>
Don't politicians ever learn from history -- specifically the "energy crisis" of the 1970s, when there was a similar sense of a need to "do something", which in too many cases resulted in heavily subsidized white elephants? Once again, sober, ex ante analysis of the various policy analysis has been sacrificed to expediency. <p>
A case in point. Does the proposed tax credit of 51 cents for every gallon of coal-based fuel sold (through 2020!!) ring a bell? It should: it is exactly the same rate as the Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit (VEETC). I'll bet a team of policy wonks ran their models day and night to come up with that number!<p>
We're talking <a href="http://www.anc.org.za/ancdocs/pr/1980s/pr850300.html" rel="nofollow">aprtheid-era policies here: subsidies for building the plants, price floors and production subsidies, and guaranteed markets &nbsp;for the fuel itself (not only from the military but, in the U.S. case through the proposed "alternative fuel standard").</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #3 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 05:11:12 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/3</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>don't forget:</strong></p><p>"Energy Independence!" is a battle-cry, for a cause which has nothing to do, basically, with combatting global warming. &nbsp;I do not know if we know what all these energetic coal lobbyists are telling the folks in Congress, but I would guess a lot has to do with global politics and US strategy in the Middle East. &nbsp;And needless to say, that is the subject that is highest in everyone's minds in DC.</p><p>
Observe that the NYTimes columnist Tom Friedman (aka "the Mustache," at least in Gristmill) had always been interested in Middle Eastern politics, and the United States' involvement in them, as a geo-political issue. &nbsp;It was only in the course of pondering all that, that he latterly hit on energy independence as an excellent strategic goal for the US. &nbsp;Even then, he was not yet saying anything bold about "green" alternative energy sources. &nbsp;That took further worrying about the fast-globalizing economy of India especially, and all that "the world is flat" business, to help him conclude that the US should resolve to become the global leader in green energy and green industry.</p><p>
This evolution in fact reflects the very conservative values of the powers-that-be in this country: first, national security always comes first; second, the growth of American business always comes second; third, let the pointy-headed Friends-of-Al play with things like cellulosic ethanol, but the US should not invest serious money in it just yet.</p><p>
Subsidizing CTL fits those values, foolish and misguided as they are, just fine.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!</p></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>don't forget:</strong></p><p>"Energy Independence!" is a battle-cry, for a cause which has nothing to do, basically, with combatting global warming. &nbsp;I do not know if we know what all these energetic coal lobbyists are telling the folks in Congress, but I would guess a lot has to do with global politics and US strategy in the Middle East. &nbsp;And needless to say, that is the subject that is highest in everyone's minds in DC.</p><p>
Observe that the NYTimes columnist Tom Friedman (aka "the Mustache," at least in Gristmill) had always been interested in Middle Eastern politics, and the United States' involvement in them, as a geo-political issue. &nbsp;It was only in the course of pondering all that, that he latterly hit on energy independence as an excellent strategic goal for the US. &nbsp;Even then, he was not yet saying anything bold about "green" alternative energy sources. &nbsp;That took further worrying about the fast-globalizing economy of India especially, and all that "the world is flat" business, to help him conclude that the US should resolve to become the global leader in green energy and green industry.</p><p>
This evolution in fact reflects the very conservative values of the powers-that-be in this country: first, national security always comes first; second, the growth of American business always comes second; third, let the pointy-headed Friends-of-Al play with things like cellulosic ethanol, but the US should not invest serious money in it just yet.</p><p>
Subsidizing CTL fits those values, foolish and misguided as they are, just fine.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!</p></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #4 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 05:21:56 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/4</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>That chart</strong></p><p>I wonder where their "electricity" figure comes from.</p><p>
Since it seems like it must be either the grid average, or even straight coal.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>That chart</strong></p><p>I wonder where their "electricity" figure comes from.</p><p>
Since it seems like it must be either the grid average, or even straight coal.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #5 by Sinjin32</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 05:24:20 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/5</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Liquified coal and greenwashing...</strong></p><p>I love Grist...I really do. &nbsp;But then I see a banner ad from GE on liquified coal above the article where Grist is bashing liquified coal (as they should.)</p><p>
I know it costs to run a site, and any other business, but could it be possible to be a bit more selective about either a) where some of that advertising income comes from or b) the decisions made to not so blatantly look like a sellout...</p><p>
Coal, bad...lets remember that.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Liquified coal and greenwashing...</strong></p><p>I love Grist...I really do. &nbsp;But then I see a banner ad from GE on liquified coal above the article where Grist is bashing liquified coal (as they should.)</p><p>
I know it costs to run a site, and any other business, but could it be possible to be a bit more selective about either a) where some of that advertising income comes from or b) the decisions made to not so blatantly look like a sellout...</p><p>
Coal, bad...lets remember that.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #6 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 05:28:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/6</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Actually<p>Actually the US Energy Information Agency doesn't figure we can replace even 1% of our 146 billion gallons of gasoline with cellulosic ethanol by 2030.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/ethanol8" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/ethanol8<p>
This is obviously why the CTL guys are taking this angle.<p>
Since even with cellulosic ethanol, it's virtually impossible to scale up ethanol or biodiesel to 35 billion gallons by 2017 in a way that would reduce CO2 emmisions.<p>
(Unless of course there's some gigantic breakthrough in algae. &nbsp;But I wouldn't hold your breathe.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/algae" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/algae<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/algae2" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/algae2)</a></br></a></br></p></p></p></a></br></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Actually<p>Actually the US Energy Information Agency doesn't figure we can replace even 1% of our 146 billion gallons of gasoline with cellulosic ethanol by 2030.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/ethanol8" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/ethanol8<p>
This is obviously why the CTL guys are taking this angle.<p>
Since even with cellulosic ethanol, it's virtually impossible to scale up ethanol or biodiesel to 35 billion gallons by 2017 in a way that would reduce CO2 emmisions.<p>
(Unless of course there's some gigantic breakthrough in algae. &nbsp;But I wouldn't hold your breathe.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/algae" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/algae<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/algae2" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/algae2)</a></br></a></br></p></p></p></a></br></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #7 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 05:39:05 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/7</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Actually here's the real irony<p>Coal, bad...lets remember that.<p>
I prefer coal over biofuels.<p>
Mainly because while 109% increase in CO2 is bad.<br>
A 1000% increase in CO2 is worse.<br>
<a href="http://www.greyfalcon.net/palmoil" rel="nofollow">http://www.greyfalcon.net/palmoil<br>
<a href="http://www.greyfalcon.net/soy" rel="nofollow">http://www.greyfalcon.net/soy<p>
And while there may be some mitigation<br>
Given the fungability of biofuel carbon, I don't see how biofuels on a global scale would be any less damaging than Coal-to-Liquids.<p>
_<p>
That said, I also prefer Coal<br>
Not as a Liquid.<br>
But as Electrons.<p>
Not quite sure how I feel about adding new coal capacity, however I acknowledge that existing capacity isn't going to vanish overnight.<p>
And powering an electric Prius on the dirtiest coal availible would be comprable to a normal Prius.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/plugins3" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/plugins3<p>
And merely by adding more fuel during the night.<br>
(Predominantly Coal)<br>
Would be what initially would power electric cars.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/plugins4" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/plugins4<p>
That said, things could only begin to get better as the grid gets greener.<p>
_<p>
So yeah, Electricity even at it's worst case scenario, isn't so bad as compared to some of the better case scenarios of BioFuels or Liquid Coal.<p>
_<p>
Looking at the EPA's chart I really question where that "electricity" figure comes from.</p></p></p></p></p></a></br></br></br></p></a></br></p></p></br></br></p></p></br></p></a></br></a></br></br></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Actually here's the real irony<p>Coal, bad...lets remember that.<p>
I prefer coal over biofuels.<p>
Mainly because while 109% increase in CO2 is bad.<br>
A 1000% increase in CO2 is worse.<br>
<a href="http://www.greyfalcon.net/palmoil" rel="nofollow">http://www.greyfalcon.net/palmoil<br>
<a href="http://www.greyfalcon.net/soy" rel="nofollow">http://www.greyfalcon.net/soy<p>
And while there may be some mitigation<br>
Given the fungability of biofuel carbon, I don't see how biofuels on a global scale would be any less damaging than Coal-to-Liquids.<p>
_<p>
That said, I also prefer Coal<br>
Not as a Liquid.<br>
But as Electrons.<p>
Not quite sure how I feel about adding new coal capacity, however I acknowledge that existing capacity isn't going to vanish overnight.<p>
And powering an electric Prius on the dirtiest coal availible would be comprable to a normal Prius.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/plugins3" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/plugins3<p>
And merely by adding more fuel during the night.<br>
(Predominantly Coal)<br>
Would be what initially would power electric cars.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/plugins4" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/plugins4<p>
That said, things could only begin to get better as the grid gets greener.<p>
_<p>
So yeah, Electricity even at it's worst case scenario, isn't so bad as compared to some of the better case scenarios of BioFuels or Liquid Coal.<p>
_<p>
Looking at the EPA's chart I really question where that "electricity" figure comes from.</p></p></p></p></p></a></br></br></br></p></a></br></p></p></br></br></p></p></br></p></a></br></a></br></br></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #8 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 07:10:05 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/8</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>That said,</strong></p><p>Anyone know where I could get the lifecycle CO2 per Megajoule info for various types of fuels?</p><p>
For instance, I'd like to compare electric versus various types of biofuels.</p><p>
However attempt to make it agnostic on vehicle weight.<br>
(While including engine effeciency, and maybe other factors)</br></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>That said,</strong></p><p>Anyone know where I could get the lifecycle CO2 per Megajoule info for various types of fuels?</p><p>
For instance, I'd like to compare electric versus various types of biofuels.</p><p>
However attempt to make it agnostic on vehicle weight.<br>
(While including engine effeciency, and maybe other factors)</br></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #9 by Charles Barton</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 07:26:31 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/9</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Clean power</strong></p><p>Renewable energy sources - wind, solar - are great, but they are intermittent. &nbsp;The only way we are going to get clean, reliable electric power is to go nuclear. &nbsp;You can charge your hybred car from a clean nuk source, and then you would not be taking bread from the mouths of the poor, and you would not be adding to the CO2 burden of the atmosphere. &nbsp;

<p>Charles Barton</p></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Clean power</strong></p><p>Renewable energy sources - wind, solar - are great, but they are intermittent. &nbsp;The only way we are going to get clean, reliable electric power is to go nuclear. &nbsp;You can charge your hybred car from a clean nuk source, and then you would not be taking bread from the mouths of the poor, and you would not be adding to the CO2 burden of the atmosphere. &nbsp;

<p>Charles Barton</p></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #10 by Ron Steenblik</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 07:33:00 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/10</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Lifcycle CO2 emissions<p>GreyFlcn, if you read Norwegian or German, here are a couple of sources:<p>
"<a href="http://www.vestforsk.no/www/show.do?page=12&amp;articleid=1189" rel="nofollow">Energi- og milj&#248;data for alternative og konvensjonelle drivstoffer - &#229;r 2010"<p>
and<p>
"<a href="http://www.news-service.admin.ch/NSBSubscriber/message/attachments/8514.pdf" rel="nofollow">&#214;KOBILANZ VON ENERGIEPRODUKTEN: &#214;KOLOGISCHE BEWERTUNG VON BIOTREIBSTOFFEN"</a></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Lifcycle CO2 emissions<p>GreyFlcn, if you read Norwegian or German, here are a couple of sources:<p>
"<a href="http://www.vestforsk.no/www/show.do?page=12&amp;articleid=1189" rel="nofollow">Energi- og milj&#248;data for alternative og konvensjonelle drivstoffer - &#229;r 2010"<p>
and<p>
"<a href="http://www.news-service.admin.ch/NSBSubscriber/message/attachments/8514.pdf" rel="nofollow">&#214;KOBILANZ VON ENERGIEPRODUKTEN: &#214;KOLOGISCHE BEWERTUNG VON BIOTREIBSTOFFEN"</a></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #11 by Sinjin32</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 08:21:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/11</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Nuclear</strong></p><p>Minus the golden terrorist target, nuclear might be good...oh yeah, if you ignore the waste for 10,000 years...</p><p>
If people took up the responsibility for DECENTRALIZED power that is appropriate for their locales, be it solar, wind, hydrogen, whatever, and put that to use in their own backyards, there would be much less global impact, and no reason for a terrorist to ever target a powerplant...</p><p>
Even at the neighborhood level, a small scale solar or wind or hydrogen fuel cell (any of which exist today), controlled by the neighborhood, is far and away more responsible than paying the fat cat utilities and being the perfect bullseye for those who would like to put a city, state, or country out of business...</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Nuclear</strong></p><p>Minus the golden terrorist target, nuclear might be good...oh yeah, if you ignore the waste for 10,000 years...</p><p>
If people took up the responsibility for DECENTRALIZED power that is appropriate for their locales, be it solar, wind, hydrogen, whatever, and put that to use in their own backyards, there would be much less global impact, and no reason for a terrorist to ever target a powerplant...</p><p>
Even at the neighborhood level, a small scale solar or wind or hydrogen fuel cell (any of which exist today), controlled by the neighborhood, is far and away more responsible than paying the fat cat utilities and being the perfect bullseye for those who would like to put a city, state, or country out of business...</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #12 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 08:39:37 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/12</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Grey Falcon's haiku</strong></p><p>&nbsp; As blossoms fall, coal<br>
Pleases me, not as liquid,<br>
&nbsp; But as electrons.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!</p></br></br></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Grey Falcon's haiku</strong></p><p>&nbsp; As blossoms fall, coal<br>
Pleases me, not as liquid,<br>
&nbsp; But as electrons.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!</p></br></br></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #13 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 10:52:03 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/13</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Thx, but no thx</strong></p><p>[new] Lifcycle CO2 emissions</p><p>
GreyFlcn, if you read Norwegian or German, here are a couple of sources:<br>
"Energi- og milj&#248;data for alternative og konvensjonelle drivstoffer - &#229;r 2010"</p><p>
and</p><p>
"&#214;KOBILANZ VON ENERGIEPRODUKTEN: &#214;KOLOGISCHE BEWERTUNG VON BIOTREIBSTOFFEN"</p><p>
Thanks but I think I'll need to look for something in english.</p><p>
In particular all I'm really looking for is a good way to compare various liquid fuels to electric fuels to hydrogen.<br>
And then compare that to engine effeciency.</br></br></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Thx, but no thx</strong></p><p>[new] Lifcycle CO2 emissions</p><p>
GreyFlcn, if you read Norwegian or German, here are a couple of sources:<br>
"Energi- og milj&#248;data for alternative og konvensjonelle drivstoffer - &#229;r 2010"</p><p>
and</p><p>
"&#214;KOBILANZ VON ENERGIEPRODUKTEN: &#214;KOLOGISCHE BEWERTUNG VON BIOTREIBSTOFFEN"</p><p>
Thanks but I think I'll need to look for something in english.</p><p>
In particular all I'm really looking for is a good way to compare various liquid fuels to electric fuels to hydrogen.<br>
And then compare that to engine effeciency.</br></br></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #14 by Nucbuddy</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 11:23:33 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/14</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Why would a terrorist strike a nuclear power plant</strong></p><p><b>Sinjin32</b> write: Minus the golden terrorist target, nuclear</p><p>
Why do you believe that nuclear power plants make for golden terrorist-targets?<br>
</br></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Why would a terrorist strike a nuclear power plant</strong></p><p><b>Sinjin32</b> write: Minus the golden terrorist target, nuclear</p><p>
Why do you believe that nuclear power plants make for golden terrorist-targets?<br>
</br></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #15 by meander</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 15:41:59 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/15</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Could $70 billion reduce gasoline use by 10%?<p>Over at the <a href="http://www.cfra.org/blog/2007/05/29/surprise%2C-surprise" rel="nofollow">Blog for Rural America, Dan Owens makes an interesting wager: &nbsp;"I bet that we could conserve 10 percent of gasoline consumption for a lot less than 70 billion dollars." &nbsp; Could we? &nbsp;How much would a 10% increase in fuel efficiency cost? &nbsp;<p>
GreyFlcn: &nbsp;the Institute for Transportation Studies at UC Davis has a lot of life-cycle analysis of just about every practical transportation fuel. &nbsp;<a href="http://www.its.ucdavis.edu/people/faculty/delucchi/index.php#LifecycleEmissions" rel="nofollow">Dr. Mark Delucchi is one of those working on the project, and has links to numerous reports.</a></p></a></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Could $70 billion reduce gasoline use by 10%?<p>Over at the <a href="http://www.cfra.org/blog/2007/05/29/surprise%2C-surprise" rel="nofollow">Blog for Rural America, Dan Owens makes an interesting wager: &nbsp;"I bet that we could conserve 10 percent of gasoline consumption for a lot less than 70 billion dollars." &nbsp; Could we? &nbsp;How much would a 10% increase in fuel efficiency cost? &nbsp;<p>
GreyFlcn: &nbsp;the Institute for Transportation Studies at UC Davis has a lot of life-cycle analysis of just about every practical transportation fuel. &nbsp;<a href="http://www.its.ucdavis.edu/people/faculty/delucchi/index.php#LifecycleEmissions" rel="nofollow">Dr. Mark Delucchi is one of those working on the project, and has links to numerous reports.</a></p></a></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #16 by SustainableGreen</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 00:33:07 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/16</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Uh, Organization...Organization</strong></p><p>Hey, all:</p><p>
From D.R.:</p><p>
"Why on earth would Congress do something so criminally stupid, so manifestly against the public interest? Why do they ever?</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Coal industry lobbying has reached a fever pitch. The industry spent $6 million on federal lobbying in 2005 and 2006, three times what it spent each year from 2000 through 2004, according to calculations by Politicalmoneyline.com.</p><p>
There's your civics lesson from today's NYT, kids:</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; * Energy efficiency: a financial boon and a cheap, fast way to reduce carbon emissions. But: no big industry lobby. Thus: ignored by the feds.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; * CTL: a financial boondoggle with few energy security benefits that will aggravate climate change. But: big industry lobby. Thus: plied with billions in taxpayer subsidies.</p><p>
Looking for something to chat about with your Congressional representative? This seems like a good place to start."</p><p>
This is a perfect illustration, yet another reason why we need a single strong central organization to cover all environmental fields to provide issues and a means of focused political action. &nbsp;How about it? &nbsp;Who has it? &nbsp;Where is the environmental "MoveOn"? &nbsp;Who'll set it up?</p><p>
David<br>
Sustainability For Life</p><p>
Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!</br></br></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Uh, Organization...Organization</strong></p><p>Hey, all:</p><p>
From D.R.:</p><p>
"Why on earth would Congress do something so criminally stupid, so manifestly against the public interest? Why do they ever?</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Coal industry lobbying has reached a fever pitch. The industry spent $6 million on federal lobbying in 2005 and 2006, three times what it spent each year from 2000 through 2004, according to calculations by Politicalmoneyline.com.</p><p>
There's your civics lesson from today's NYT, kids:</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; * Energy efficiency: a financial boon and a cheap, fast way to reduce carbon emissions. But: no big industry lobby. Thus: ignored by the feds.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; * CTL: a financial boondoggle with few energy security benefits that will aggravate climate change. But: big industry lobby. Thus: plied with billions in taxpayer subsidies.</p><p>
Looking for something to chat about with your Congressional representative? This seems like a good place to start."</p><p>
This is a perfect illustration, yet another reason why we need a single strong central organization to cover all environmental fields to provide issues and a means of focused political action. &nbsp;How about it? &nbsp;Who has it? &nbsp;Where is the environmental "MoveOn"? &nbsp;Who'll set it up?</p><p>
David<br>
Sustainability For Life</p><p>
Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!</br></br></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #17 by ethanol</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:38:23 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/energy-efficiency-vs-liquefied-coal-which-do-you-think-congress-is-subsidiz/17</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Ethanol fuel<p>I would like to invite all audience to visit a newly lounched site dedicated to biofuels, ethanol and climate issues. Potential writers are wellcome to write to (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
//= 0; i=i-1){ 
if (l[i].substring(0, 1) == ' ') output += "&#"+unescape(l[i].substring(1))+";"; 
else output += unescape(l[i]);
}
document.getElementById('eeEncEmail_8u7B4LGLzB').innerHTML = output;
//]]>
<p>
<a href="http://www.ethanol-news.de" rel="nofollow">http://www.ethanol-news.de<br>
</br></a></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Ethanol fuel<p>I would like to invite all audience to visit a newly lounched site dedicated to biofuels, ethanol and climate issues. Potential writers are wellcome to write to (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
//= 0; i=i-1){ 
if (l[i].substring(0, 1) == ' ') output += "&#"+unescape(l[i].substring(1))+";"; 
else output += unescape(l[i]);
}
document.getElementById('eeEncEmail_8u7B4LGLzB').innerHTML = output;
//]]>
<p>
<a href="http://www.ethanol-news.de" rel="nofollow">http://www.ethanol-news.de<br>
</br></a></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
 </channel>
</rss>