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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Plans to boost energy efficiency start getting traction in Congress]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by inkedbuddha</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:53:05 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>What's up with the digs at Amory?</strong></p><p>I think the story is good and the idea even better. As has been said many times - the cheapest energy is the energy never used. </p><p>
But why the fun at Lovins' expense? Twice (caption and text) you act like he isn't sexy for more than his brain. Ha! He may be some people's dreamboat!</p><p>
Other than this very rude and seemingly unprovoked mockery, I do love love love my Grist. :)</p>
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				<p><strong>What's up with the digs at Amory?</strong></p><p>I think the story is good and the idea even better. As has been said many times - the cheapest energy is the energy never used. </p><p>
But why the fun at Lovins' expense? Twice (caption and text) you act like he isn't sexy for more than his brain. Ha! He may be some people's dreamboat!</p><p>
Other than this very rude and seemingly unprovoked mockery, I do love love love my Grist. :)</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Lisa Hymas</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:22:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>We mean it all in good fun</strong></p><p>We love Amory! &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>We mean it all in good fun</strong></p><p>We love Amory! &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by radrerun</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:57:25 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Bernie Sanders...</strong></p><p>...is not a Democrat as you put it in this paragraph:</p><p>
"Other legislation now pending in Congress would tackle these omitted issues: EERSs are included in broader climate-change bills from Sens. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) and Bernie Sanders (D-Vt.)..."</p><p>
He's an independent.</p><p>
I'm a stickler on this issue because everybody and their mother (I thought) knew that. &nbsp;Bernie rocks.</p>
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				<p><strong>Bernie Sanders...</strong></p><p>...is not a Democrat as you put it in this paragraph:</p><p>
"Other legislation now pending in Congress would tackle these omitted issues: EERSs are included in broader climate-change bills from Sens. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) and Bernie Sanders (D-Vt.)..."</p><p>
He's an independent.</p><p>
I'm a stickler on this issue because everybody and their mother (I thought) knew that. &nbsp;Bernie rocks.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by waltww</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:19:25 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Tighten Up Energy</strong></p><p>Tightening up on energy efficiency makes lots of sense to me but I must add a personal experience regarding PG &amp; E's special programs to cut gas and electrical usage 10 or 15 pct from the previous year. I don't have the figures in front of me but am certain that after consumption was reduced fairly much to target a year later the rates went up so the company earnings continued undisturbed. Maybe our country needs help in reducing energy from all those involved, particularly the corporations who supply it.</p><p>
Walt</p>
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				<p><strong>Tighten Up Energy</strong></p><p>Tightening up on energy efficiency makes lots of sense to me but I must add a personal experience regarding PG &amp; E's special programs to cut gas and electrical usage 10 or 15 pct from the previous year. I don't have the figures in front of me but am certain that after consumption was reduced fairly much to target a year later the rates went up so the company earnings continued undisturbed. Maybe our country needs help in reducing energy from all those involved, particularly the corporations who supply it.</p><p>
Walt</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Lisa Hymas</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:49:34 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Oops!</strong></p><p>Thanks, radrerun, for pointing out the mistake. &nbsp;We've now fixed it and Sanders is correctly identified as an independent.<br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Oops!</strong></p><p>Thanks, radrerun, for pointing out the mistake. &nbsp;We've now fixed it and Sanders is correctly identified as an independent.<br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Pangolin</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 17:10:42 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Some low hanging fruit......</strong></p><p>Simply by offering a substantial financial benefit for installing thermally reflective roofing over standard black roofing 20% to 40% of cooling/heating costs could be saved. Most of that during peak load hours for power grids. </p><p>
The trick is that the reflective roofing must be cheaper to the roofing contractor making the bid than all other options. Virtually all of the nations roofing will be replaced by 2050 due to standard 30-40 year roof life cycles. </p><p>
Encourage (demand?) that rental properties below a median value install geoexchange HVAC unless given a specific waiver. That cuts another 25% to 40% off the grid. There are many, many rental properties with 30 year old AC units sitting on black roofs. The government already pays for power bill assistance; let's cut the waste.</p><p>
Swapping out 10 year old water heaters in my area is prudent due to hard water. I've seen many 15 to 20 year old water heaters in service running at very low efficiencies. Have power companies certify all thermal appliances are within efficiency standards no less than 10 years old in order to provide service. </p><p>
Demand 40% summer shading of all parking lots in order to maintain business licences. Google: "heat island effect". </p><p>
One of the effects of our capitalist society is that while these improvements are usually cost effective on paper the cost of the project gets paid up front and the savings comes later. </p><p>
Further in cases where there are landlord/tenant relationships or houses purchased with the expectation of short occupancy the person who pays the power bills may not be the person who pays for roofing, HVAC system installation or building maintenance. </p><p>
A financial vehicle needs to be created to finance solid improvments to a building through the power bills. System cost plus financing should be less than the expected cost of power reduced. The building occupant should get a reduced bill after installation with the improvement still financed.</p><p>
Somebody help me on this finance stuff; please. </p>
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				<p><strong>Some low hanging fruit......</strong></p><p>Simply by offering a substantial financial benefit for installing thermally reflective roofing over standard black roofing 20% to 40% of cooling/heating costs could be saved. Most of that during peak load hours for power grids. </p><p>
The trick is that the reflective roofing must be cheaper to the roofing contractor making the bid than all other options. Virtually all of the nations roofing will be replaced by 2050 due to standard 30-40 year roof life cycles. </p><p>
Encourage (demand?) that rental properties below a median value install geoexchange HVAC unless given a specific waiver. That cuts another 25% to 40% off the grid. There are many, many rental properties with 30 year old AC units sitting on black roofs. The government already pays for power bill assistance; let's cut the waste.</p><p>
Swapping out 10 year old water heaters in my area is prudent due to hard water. I've seen many 15 to 20 year old water heaters in service running at very low efficiencies. Have power companies certify all thermal appliances are within efficiency standards no less than 10 years old in order to provide service. </p><p>
Demand 40% summer shading of all parking lots in order to maintain business licences. Google: "heat island effect". </p><p>
One of the effects of our capitalist society is that while these improvements are usually cost effective on paper the cost of the project gets paid up front and the savings comes later. </p><p>
Further in cases where there are landlord/tenant relationships or houses purchased with the expectation of short occupancy the person who pays the power bills may not be the person who pays for roofing, HVAC system installation or building maintenance. </p><p>
A financial vehicle needs to be created to finance solid improvments to a building through the power bills. System cost plus financing should be less than the expected cost of power reduced. The building occupant should get a reduced bill after installation with the improvement still financed.</p><p>
Somebody help me on this finance stuff; please. </p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by RemyC</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 22:28:17 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>missing HUGE chunk of the equation</strong></p><p>Any discussion of boostin' energy efficiency, without in the same breath, mentioning the desperate need to terminate nuclear power generation, in this country, and elsewhere around the world, is doomed to failure from the get go... because as the oil companies no sooner than solar became viable bought into all the photovoltaic companies to control them, today, the nuclear industry is doing the same thing with wind power companies, one by one, buying them, so as to make sure, wind farms are not installed "instead" of nuclear power, but rather in addition to, in essence, castrating the very soul, the very reason why we went into the development of these alternative fuel industries in the first place, or do you not remember, you so young, that the reason there is a solar and a wind industry today, was in reaction to the anti-nuclear movement of the 60's 70's. NOTHING has changed... it's in fact only gotten worse and more precarious. Shut Down Indian Point!</p>
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				<p><strong>missing HUGE chunk of the equation</strong></p><p>Any discussion of boostin' energy efficiency, without in the same breath, mentioning the desperate need to terminate nuclear power generation, in this country, and elsewhere around the world, is doomed to failure from the get go... because as the oil companies no sooner than solar became viable bought into all the photovoltaic companies to control them, today, the nuclear industry is doing the same thing with wind power companies, one by one, buying them, so as to make sure, wind farms are not installed "instead" of nuclear power, but rather in addition to, in essence, castrating the very soul, the very reason why we went into the development of these alternative fuel industries in the first place, or do you not remember, you so young, that the reason there is a solar and a wind industry today, was in reaction to the anti-nuclear movement of the 60's 70's. NOTHING has changed... it's in fact only gotten worse and more precarious. Shut Down Indian Point!</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Pangolin</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 10:20:55 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Wind/solar has advantage NOW<p>Right now it is becoming apparant to more and more people that installing your own wind or solar power plant (preferably both) gives the property owner an advantage NOW that is hard to remove. <p>
Fact 1) Us electric power infrastructure is in poor shape and getting worse. Despite several alarming reports and even more alarming blackouts no major repairs or upgrades are scheduled. Your home system need not be disrupted by grid outages.<p>
Fact 2) Electric rates show a historic trend of <a href="http://www.spgsolar.com/rebates_incentives.html" rel="nofollow">rising ahead of inflation. <a href="http://www.aaes.biz/" rel="nofollow">http://www.aaes.biz/<p>
Fact 3)Once you've installed your solar system it produces power at a fixed rate. Nuclear powered utilities have had a notorious reputation for raising rates after installing nuclear plants. <p>
Fact 4) Solar systems becoming available are capable of providing <a href="http://www.infiniacorp.com/applications/clean_energy.htm" rel="nofollow">combined heat and power services.<p>
As more home system are installed it will become more obvious to everybody that owning a solar system is like being able to print $100 every month. Everybody wants to do that. </p></a></p></p></a></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Wind/solar has advantage NOW<p>Right now it is becoming apparant to more and more people that installing your own wind or solar power plant (preferably both) gives the property owner an advantage NOW that is hard to remove. <p>
Fact 1) Us electric power infrastructure is in poor shape and getting worse. Despite several alarming reports and even more alarming blackouts no major repairs or upgrades are scheduled. Your home system need not be disrupted by grid outages.<p>
Fact 2) Electric rates show a historic trend of <a href="http://www.spgsolar.com/rebates_incentives.html" rel="nofollow">rising ahead of inflation. <a href="http://www.aaes.biz/" rel="nofollow">http://www.aaes.biz/<p>
Fact 3)Once you've installed your solar system it produces power at a fixed rate. Nuclear powered utilities have had a notorious reputation for raising rates after installing nuclear plants. <p>
Fact 4) Solar systems becoming available are capable of providing <a href="http://www.infiniacorp.com/applications/clean_energy.htm" rel="nofollow">combined heat and power services.<p>
As more home system are installed it will become more obvious to everybody that owning a solar system is like being able to print $100 every month. Everybody wants to do that. </p></a></p></p></a></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by dayve311</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 07:59:47 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Energy efficiancy Vs. Old Money</strong></p><p>One thing is for certain, old money will not let it's profits shrink without a fight. &nbsp;Thats why old money is scrambling to buy all the new technology. &nbsp;They are finally starting to see that green light can equal green money.</p><p>
I have often felt that one of the major problems this country faces is that of the privatized energy giants like PG&amp;E etc. &nbsp;Water is usually in most areas at least a public utility protected and provided by state, local and federal laws/ agencies. &nbsp;No doubt, someone is getting rich off of our water use, but not as rich as those that provide our energy. &nbsp;</p><p>
When private energy giants send us those little pamphlets that tell us how to save energy in our home, they certainly are not telling us that because they want to bill us less. &nbsp;In fact, even though our bills may shrink a bit, they will be minute in comparison to how much the power companies bills will be reduced if we all reduce our usage. &nbsp;Maybe they will loose a buck or 2 a month from every home on the grid, but overall....in the grand scheme, they are benefititting far more. &nbsp;</p><p>
The only way to really control the situation is to promote the use and purchase of "in home" energy such as solar and wind power. &nbsp;Several individuals have been able to go "off the grid" doing this. &nbsp;If enough people who have the means, cared to do it, that would force the hands of the power companies to provide accept making less profit. &nbsp;The longterm goal would be for them to sell their company back to the government where it can be operated without the worries of shareholders and profit margins. &nbsp;Energy should not be run like a liqour store.</p>
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				<p><strong>Energy efficiancy Vs. Old Money</strong></p><p>One thing is for certain, old money will not let it's profits shrink without a fight. &nbsp;Thats why old money is scrambling to buy all the new technology. &nbsp;They are finally starting to see that green light can equal green money.</p><p>
I have often felt that one of the major problems this country faces is that of the privatized energy giants like PG&amp;E etc. &nbsp;Water is usually in most areas at least a public utility protected and provided by state, local and federal laws/ agencies. &nbsp;No doubt, someone is getting rich off of our water use, but not as rich as those that provide our energy. &nbsp;</p><p>
When private energy giants send us those little pamphlets that tell us how to save energy in our home, they certainly are not telling us that because they want to bill us less. &nbsp;In fact, even though our bills may shrink a bit, they will be minute in comparison to how much the power companies bills will be reduced if we all reduce our usage. &nbsp;Maybe they will loose a buck or 2 a month from every home on the grid, but overall....in the grand scheme, they are benefititting far more. &nbsp;</p><p>
The only way to really control the situation is to promote the use and purchase of "in home" energy such as solar and wind power. &nbsp;Several individuals have been able to go "off the grid" doing this. &nbsp;If enough people who have the means, cared to do it, that would force the hands of the power companies to provide accept making less profit. &nbsp;The longterm goal would be for them to sell their company back to the government where it can be operated without the worries of shareholders and profit margins. &nbsp;Energy should not be run like a liqour store.</p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by planetthoughts</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 21:17:31 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>Passing</strong></p><p>A real pro-environment (and pro-security) energy bill that passes during this Bush Administration? &nbsp;That would be a first, at least for a major bill since 2000. &nbsp;That Administration bunch is cold and calculating, and all folks in this country (and elsewhere) who are in possession of their own faculties, are hoping that this trend continues and the country returns to true family values: love of this planet, love of each others' right, and respect for the individual.</p>
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				<p><strong>Passing</strong></p><p>A real pro-environment (and pro-security) energy bill that passes during this Bush Administration? &nbsp;That would be a first, at least for a major bill since 2000. &nbsp;That Administration bunch is cold and calculating, and all folks in this country (and elsewhere) who are in possession of their own faculties, are hoping that this trend continues and the country returns to true family values: love of this planet, love of each others' right, and respect for the individual.</p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by flabob</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:58:53 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/efficiency2/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>Alternative Energy and the OPEC oil crunch</strong></p><p>in re: &nbsp;RemyC above. &nbsp;I believe it was more the OPEC oil embargo of 1973-4 which got awareness of alternative energy going. &nbsp;At that time there was a lot of interest in nuclear power (I live five miles from a pair of reactors at Ft. Pierce FL), but this was derailed by a double whammy: &nbsp;the release of The China Syndrome (Jane Fonda, Jack Lemmon) in April of 79, and the partial meltdown of Three Mile Island just a couple of months later. &nbsp;If some of you have not yet seen the film, I highly recommend it. &nbsp;You'll think differently about nuclear power afterwards. &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>Alternative Energy and the OPEC oil crunch</strong></p><p>in re: &nbsp;RemyC above. &nbsp;I believe it was more the OPEC oil embargo of 1973-4 which got awareness of alternative energy going. &nbsp;At that time there was a lot of interest in nuclear power (I live five miles from a pair of reactors at Ft. Pierce FL), but this was derailed by a double whammy: &nbsp;the release of The China Syndrome (Jane Fonda, Jack Lemmon) in April of 79, and the partial meltdown of Three Mile Island just a couple of months later. &nbsp;If some of you have not yet seen the film, I highly recommend it. &nbsp;You'll think differently about nuclear power afterwards. &nbsp;</p>
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