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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Buying a high-mileage car easier said than done]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 03:14:24 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Offshore rebrand</strong></p><p>Or just offshore all production, call it a GM product (buy USA!) and become a sales and marketing and financing outfit (as this example of the korean chevy seems to indicate). &nbsp;Car salesmen run it already why not? &nbsp;That's how they got into this trouble, putting car salesmen in the board rooms.</p><p>
This is logo switching like your old friend at Ford thinks is a brillient new corporate strategery.</p><p>
Used economy cars are very scarce too. &nbsp;I have a spare Toyota stored, and I drive my Honda.</p><p>
The Toyota maybe a good candidate for a plugin hybrid conversion. &nbsp;Conversion kits would be a solution for us do-it-yourselfers. &nbsp;</p><p>
Why not convert that shuttered gas guzzler assembley plant in Kenosha to a plugin hybrid economy car (not the Volt with it's hundreds of unecessary hp) factory. &nbsp;Real economy cars with real logos on them. &nbsp;Made in america.</p><p>
Not GM, car salesmen don't take sucker bets like that. &nbsp;Betting on the american worker. &nbsp;They respect us all about as much as workers as they do as car buyers. &nbsp;As they do as soldiers, voters, cirizens, soldiers...and on and on.</p><p>
We are expendable, merely suckers to feed the bottomline.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Offshore rebrand</strong></p><p>Or just offshore all production, call it a GM product (buy USA!) and become a sales and marketing and financing outfit (as this example of the korean chevy seems to indicate). &nbsp;Car salesmen run it already why not? &nbsp;That's how they got into this trouble, putting car salesmen in the board rooms.</p><p>
This is logo switching like your old friend at Ford thinks is a brillient new corporate strategery.</p><p>
Used economy cars are very scarce too. &nbsp;I have a spare Toyota stored, and I drive my Honda.</p><p>
The Toyota maybe a good candidate for a plugin hybrid conversion. &nbsp;Conversion kits would be a solution for us do-it-yourselfers. &nbsp;</p><p>
Why not convert that shuttered gas guzzler assembley plant in Kenosha to a plugin hybrid economy car (not the Volt with it's hundreds of unecessary hp) factory. &nbsp;Real economy cars with real logos on them. &nbsp;Made in america.</p><p>
Not GM, car salesmen don't take sucker bets like that. &nbsp;Betting on the american worker. &nbsp;They respect us all about as much as workers as they do as car buyers. &nbsp;As they do as soldiers, voters, cirizens, soldiers...and on and on.</p><p>
We are expendable, merely suckers to feed the bottomline.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 03:21:53 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Door handle</strong></p><p>Ooops, I forgot to add this bio-d. &nbsp;My door handle broke too. &nbsp;The rod it attaches to can be simply pulled forward to operate the lock. &nbsp;</p><p>
When the regular handle finally cracked all the way and fell off,I attached a piece of thick wire to the rod and applied some tape to make a nice smooth handle. &nbsp;Hehey.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Door handle</strong></p><p>Ooops, I forgot to add this bio-d. &nbsp;My door handle broke too. &nbsp;The rod it attaches to can be simply pulled forward to operate the lock. &nbsp;</p><p>
When the regular handle finally cracked all the way and fell off,I attached a piece of thick wire to the rod and applied some tape to make a nice smooth handle. &nbsp;Hehey.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 06:02:28 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Too Bad Tokyo Sold Out</strong></p><p><br>
The best and most efficient cars were created by Japan prior to 1990. &nbsp; The Mazdas, Hondas and Nissans of that era are more valuable than vintage wine. </p><p>
Reason is they struck the perfect balance of efficiecy and performance...Bauhausian in their sparseness and utility.</p><p>
Perhaps someone there has the blueprints for the 323 and Sentras and they can be Jurassic-Parked back onto the roadway.<br>
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				<p><strong>Too Bad Tokyo Sold Out</strong></p><p><br>
The best and most efficient cars were created by Japan prior to 1990. &nbsp; The Mazdas, Hondas and Nissans of that era are more valuable than vintage wine. </p><p>
Reason is they struck the perfect balance of efficiecy and performance...Bauhausian in their sparseness and utility.</p><p>
Perhaps someone there has the blueprints for the 323 and Sentras and they can be Jurassic-Parked back onto the roadway.<br>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Ron Steenblik</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:20:15 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>A gem of a comment, John B</strong></p><p>And I really mean it.

<p>These are only my personal opinions.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>A gem of a comment, John B</strong></p><p>And I really mean it.

<p>These are only my personal opinions.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by spaceshaper</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 08:44:33 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Odd about the Yaris reviews</strong></p><p>I've driven the 3-door automatic for the last year, I put ten gallons in every 340 miles. Almost all city. ULEV, good safety profile, comfortable 5-seater. Consumer reports just ignored it in their roundup of good milage vehicles for reasons they did not disclose other than to say it "did not meet their standards". What's up with that? 

<p>The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not expect to sit.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Odd about the Yaris reviews</strong></p><p>I've driven the 3-door automatic for the last year, I put ten gallons in every 340 miles. Almost all city. ULEV, good safety profile, comfortable 5-seater. Consumer reports just ignored it in their roundup of good milage vehicles for reasons they did not disclose other than to say it "did not meet their standards". What's up with that? 

<p>The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not expect to sit.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by bigTom</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 09:05:16 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>  Mini Cooper?</strong></p><p>&nbsp; The radio has been bombarding me with adverts for this former cult vehicle, as a good high milage affordable vehicle. IIRC they are claiming about $18K and 38mpg. I had my Prius serviced today, the bad news is the dealer is now only getting 6 Priuses per delivery cycle -they used to get 20 to 22. He thought Toyota was conspiring with the oil companies. I think they are straining the supply chain -and probably also responding to demand from locations that previously weren't interested in the Prius. In any case, it now looks like hybrids are in serious short supply.</p>
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				<p><strong>  Mini Cooper?</strong></p><p>&nbsp; The radio has been bombarding me with adverts for this former cult vehicle, as a good high milage affordable vehicle. IIRC they are claiming about $18K and 38mpg. I had my Prius serviced today, the bad news is the dealer is now only getting 6 Priuses per delivery cycle -they used to get 20 to 22. He thought Toyota was conspiring with the oil companies. I think they are straining the supply chain -and probably also responding to demand from locations that previously weren't interested in the Prius. In any case, it now looks like hybrids are in serious short supply.</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Colin Wright</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:18:15 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Run! Peak oil is coming!</strong></p><p>This shortage of hybrids is exactly why PHEV's won't solve Peak Oil, as Joe Romm and others on Grist seem to believe. That is, it's an issue of "rates" of production. The U.S. produces about 7 million cars/year (and falling!) I believe, which means it would take 30 odd years to replace the car fleet. But we are already in the "foothills" of peak oil (Chris Srebowski's phrase). Samuel Bodman seemed to acknowledge as much in today's news, that we are maxed out on production. </p><p>
Unfortunately public transit won't solve the problem either (over 80% of commuters drive). We need a global policy on oil to divide it up and cap the cost to tide us over til we have electrified our transportation.</p>
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				<p><strong>Run! Peak oil is coming!</strong></p><p>This shortage of hybrids is exactly why PHEV's won't solve Peak Oil, as Joe Romm and others on Grist seem to believe. That is, it's an issue of "rates" of production. The U.S. produces about 7 million cars/year (and falling!) I believe, which means it would take 30 odd years to replace the car fleet. But we are already in the "foothills" of peak oil (Chris Srebowski's phrase). Samuel Bodman seemed to acknowledge as much in today's news, that we are maxed out on production. </p><p>
Unfortunately public transit won't solve the problem either (over 80% of commuters drive). We need a global policy on oil to divide it up and cap the cost to tide us over til we have electrified our transportation.</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 11:09:42 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>17 million</strong></p><p>Cars replaced per year in the US. &nbsp;It would take about 20 years at that pace, no problem. &nbsp;That is fast enough.</p><p>
Maybe 100 million could be replaced with plugin hybrid bikes, mass transit, and small golf cart sized electric local vehicles. &nbsp;These are being legalized for restricted road use all over the place.</p><p>
This transition doesn't need to be done next week, and it doesn't need to be to full sized electric vehicles for every car now in use. &nbsp;Other alternatives will suffice. &nbsp;Very light plugfin hybrid cars that cruise at 50 to 60 mph, with 20 hp engine/electric motors would do for most people.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>17 million</strong></p><p>Cars replaced per year in the US. &nbsp;It would take about 20 years at that pace, no problem. &nbsp;That is fast enough.</p><p>
Maybe 100 million could be replaced with plugin hybrid bikes, mass transit, and small golf cart sized electric local vehicles. &nbsp;These are being legalized for restricted road use all over the place.</p><p>
This transition doesn't need to be done next week, and it doesn't need to be to full sized electric vehicles for every car now in use. &nbsp;Other alternatives will suffice. &nbsp;Very light plugfin hybrid cars that cruise at 50 to 60 mph, with 20 hp engine/electric motors would do for most people.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by MAD MAC</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 14:49:59 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>If the weather in your neighborhood supports it...</strong></p><p>I was very lucky. Three years ago, during my last assignment before retiring, I found a house within walking distance of my place of work. There was a supermarket about a kilometer from my house. So I bought one of those little pull shopping carts. My dance studio was right on the bus line, and that was an easy walk as well. So I sold the car, and haven't owned one since. I walk to work, walk to shop, take the bus to dance, the train for longer trips.</p><p>
Well, I did, until I retired and moved to Thailand. Wife is Thai, and we moved to Thailand. In Thailand possession of glitzy stuff is very important in marking your social status. MUCH more so than in the US. Hence a lot of people drive big, flashy pickups that they can't afford. My wife wanted one. I could afford it, but I said no. It's stupid. The price of gas is only going to go up. The writing is on the wall. </p><p>
We use a "Tuk tuk" to haul stuff from our weekly shopping trips. It's cheap and easy. I get around the city and visit the in-laws on my Honda Shadow. Small engine, but sufficient for here. I tank about once a month for less than ten US dollars. It's also fun and a chick magnet.... for those of you who aren't gay.</p><p>
You can't ride in the snow, but you can definitely ride in the rain. In the rainy season here, it RAINS. And I ride all the time. So I recommend a bike or scooter for those who do not have a highway commute or can avoid any meaningful stretches of highway driving in their route selection. </p><p>
One drawback. Bikes are inherently dangerous. You don't have any protection. You get hit, you're going to get hurt or killed. But then, if you can't killed doing it, it probably ain't worth doing.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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				<p><strong>If the weather in your neighborhood supports it...</strong></p><p>I was very lucky. Three years ago, during my last assignment before retiring, I found a house within walking distance of my place of work. There was a supermarket about a kilometer from my house. So I bought one of those little pull shopping carts. My dance studio was right on the bus line, and that was an easy walk as well. So I sold the car, and haven't owned one since. I walk to work, walk to shop, take the bus to dance, the train for longer trips.</p><p>
Well, I did, until I retired and moved to Thailand. Wife is Thai, and we moved to Thailand. In Thailand possession of glitzy stuff is very important in marking your social status. MUCH more so than in the US. Hence a lot of people drive big, flashy pickups that they can't afford. My wife wanted one. I could afford it, but I said no. It's stupid. The price of gas is only going to go up. The writing is on the wall. </p><p>
We use a "Tuk tuk" to haul stuff from our weekly shopping trips. It's cheap and easy. I get around the city and visit the in-laws on my Honda Shadow. Small engine, but sufficient for here. I tank about once a month for less than ten US dollars. It's also fun and a chick magnet.... for those of you who aren't gay.</p><p>
You can't ride in the snow, but you can definitely ride in the rain. In the rainy season here, it RAINS. And I ride all the time. So I recommend a bike or scooter for those who do not have a highway commute or can avoid any meaningful stretches of highway driving in their route selection. </p><p>
One drawback. Bikes are inherently dangerous. You don't have any protection. You get hit, you're going to get hurt or killed. But then, if you can't killed doing it, it probably ain't worth doing.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by bigTom</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 06:11:16 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong> Colin is right (unfortunately).</strong></p><p>&nbsp; The transition to hybrids, and then to plugin hybrids is going to be too little too late. We collectively have dilly dallied for too long (unless peak oil really is more than a decade ago, and the current crisis is just a passing blip). But any wedge we can get from partial electrification of transport will help mitigate a lot. And at this point, the public is not ready for lifestyle changing solutions. We have to lead them there a little bit at a time.</p>
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				<p><strong> Colin is right (unfortunately).</strong></p><p>&nbsp; The transition to hybrids, and then to plugin hybrids is going to be too little too late. We collectively have dilly dallied for too long (unless peak oil really is more than a decade ago, and the current crisis is just a passing blip). But any wedge we can get from partial electrification of transport will help mitigate a lot. And at this point, the public is not ready for lifestyle changing solutions. We have to lead them there a little bit at a time.</p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by hapa</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 07:21:32 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>i think &quot;we&quot; have the retooling ability</strong></p><p>to build small, cheap, resource- and materials-efficient transitional vehicles -- directly from the big-inside micros in europe and asia -- on a sufficient scale.</p><p>
"we" just don't want people buying cars in "cash." can't finance the profit margin, can't grab the interest.</p>
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				<p><strong>i think &quot;we&quot; have the retooling ability</strong></p><p>to build small, cheap, resource- and materials-efficient transitional vehicles -- directly from the big-inside micros in europe and asia -- on a sufficient scale.</p><p>
"we" just don't want people buying cars in "cash." can't finance the profit margin, can't grab the interest.</p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 07:44:45 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>DrX<p>I tend to agree with everything you had to say here. It isn't going to take long at all to turn our car fleets over. A business "needing" a truck or SUV will be able to pick them up used for a song. Buying a new one won't make much sense.<p>
I just got home with the Yaris. The salesman pointed to a lot filled with trade-in trucks and SUVs. He said they quit taking trade-ins of this kind because they can't get rid of them. They have also quit taking orders for the Prius because they are backlogged for several months out. <p>
Claimed that six people offered to buy "my" Yaris in the few hours it was on the lot (driven there from some dealership 150 miles away) before they closed yesterday. If he were a politician I wouldn't have believed anything he said but because he is a car salesman, I believed half of everything he said.<p>
I saw on the &nbsp;news last night that scooter sales are also backlogged. I don't know.. people are going into panic mode. Getting kind of scary actually. Things could get ugly. Maybe I should put a kill switch on it before it walks off.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>DrX<p>I tend to agree with everything you had to say here. It isn't going to take long at all to turn our car fleets over. A business "needing" a truck or SUV will be able to pick them up used for a song. Buying a new one won't make much sense.<p>
I just got home with the Yaris. The salesman pointed to a lot filled with trade-in trucks and SUVs. He said they quit taking trade-ins of this kind because they can't get rid of them. They have also quit taking orders for the Prius because they are backlogged for several months out. <p>
Claimed that six people offered to buy "my" Yaris in the few hours it was on the lot (driven there from some dealership 150 miles away) before they closed yesterday. If he were a politician I wouldn't have believed anything he said but because he is a car salesman, I believed half of everything he said.<p>
I saw on the &nbsp;news last night that scooter sales are also backlogged. I don't know.. people are going into panic mode. Getting kind of scary actually. Things could get ugly. Maybe I should put a kill switch on it before it walks off.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by John Fish Kurmann</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:32:51 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Even though I'm too late...<p>...to help you, biod, I figured I'd post this anyway because it may help someone else. The primary reason the Yaris scores lower than the Fit in Consumer Reports testing and is not recommended is because of its worse performance in what's called "active safety"--in other words, the ability to avoid a collision ("passive safety" refers to the ability of a car to withstand a collision). CR has knocked the Yaris for its poor emergency handling during their avoidance maneuver test and the long braking distance when not equipped with the antilock brake option. Of course, the Yaris may still perform better in both areas than your 17-year-old car, whatever it is. CR also knocked the "flawed" driving position in the Yaris, the amount of road noise, poor rear visibility, and the center-mounted instrumentation, which they claim is too far away and hard to read.<p>
I hope you were able to get one equipped with the ABS and side and side-curtain airbag options (which tests show dramatically improve safety in a side impact), both of which come standard on the Honda Fit. Did you get a hatch or sedan?<p>
Folks should also be aware that the U.S. Yaris is not really equivalent to the Euro Yaris. Because Americans equate "small car" with "cheap car," the U.S. Yaris is more bare-bones than the Euro Yaris, with fewer airbags available, lower-tech instrumentation, and fewer amenities in general. Europeans have long been more inclined to drive smaller cars in general, consequently there are many well-equipped and even luxurious small cars sold in Europe, including models sold by Mercedes and BMW.<p>
For those in the market for a new, reasonably-priced, fuel-efficient car, Honda has begun <a href="http://automobiles.honda.com/hybrid/" rel="nofollow">the early marketing buzz campaign for their upcoming &nbsp;(but still unnamed) dedicated hybrid model, which will 1st be shown at the Tokyo Auto Show in September and is expected to go on sale early next year. They're making affordability the centerpiece of the campaign, so I'm expecting its starting price to be at or even below $20,000. The Honda Civic Hybrid currently starts at $22,600. Honda has also announced plans to sell a hybrid version of <a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/24/toyota-plans-3-battery-plants-for-hybrid-vehicles/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">the next-gen Honda Fit (though it won't go on sale this Fall when the conventional version does), which I expect to be even less-expensive than the new hybrid model, and <a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/24/toyota-plans-3-battery-plants-for-hybrid-vehicles/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">the CR-Z concept car (no on-sale date announced, though I expect it within 2 years). The next-gen Prius is supposed to be shown for the 1st time at the Detroit Auto Show in January and is expected to go on sale next April. Given that it's rumored to be somewhat larger than the current-gen with a more powerful engine, it may not come down in price much, if at all, though. Toyota has at least one smaller hybrid in the engineering pipeline but who knows when it will come to market.<p>
As for why the Prius is again in such short supply, (according to AutoBlogGreen.com) Toyota's V.P. of Communications Irv Miller explained it this way:<p>
<br>
Last year at this time we required incentives to move the Prius that were accumulating in dealer stock and it was a big month. While the numbers are off for the month compared to last year, we ended the month with less than 1 day supply. You can see that our business is ahead of last year and we are constrained by battery supply on a global basis. With the plant announcements to increase battery production we should be on course to reach the next level with annual Hybrid production.<p>
I expect this to remain the case until Toyota finishes construction on at least one of <a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/24/toyota-plans-3-battery-plants-for-hybrid-vehicles/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">their 2 new battery plants.<p>
I'm in the market for a car myself because I ran into the rearend of a Volvo S80 with my 2000 Honda Insight during rush hour 9 days ago and the estimate to fix it is too high. Unfortunately, I can't afford another used hybrid right now, nor even a budget car like the Yaris. Not sure what I'll end up with, but I'm determined to find a high-MPG used car like the old Honda Civic VX hatchback.

<p>"You can never get enough of what you do not really want." - Huston Smith</p></p></a></p></br></p></p></a></a></a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Even though I'm too late...<p>...to help you, biod, I figured I'd post this anyway because it may help someone else. The primary reason the Yaris scores lower than the Fit in Consumer Reports testing and is not recommended is because of its worse performance in what's called "active safety"--in other words, the ability to avoid a collision ("passive safety" refers to the ability of a car to withstand a collision). CR has knocked the Yaris for its poor emergency handling during their avoidance maneuver test and the long braking distance when not equipped with the antilock brake option. Of course, the Yaris may still perform better in both areas than your 17-year-old car, whatever it is. CR also knocked the "flawed" driving position in the Yaris, the amount of road noise, poor rear visibility, and the center-mounted instrumentation, which they claim is too far away and hard to read.<p>
I hope you were able to get one equipped with the ABS and side and side-curtain airbag options (which tests show dramatically improve safety in a side impact), both of which come standard on the Honda Fit. Did you get a hatch or sedan?<p>
Folks should also be aware that the U.S. Yaris is not really equivalent to the Euro Yaris. Because Americans equate "small car" with "cheap car," the U.S. Yaris is more bare-bones than the Euro Yaris, with fewer airbags available, lower-tech instrumentation, and fewer amenities in general. Europeans have long been more inclined to drive smaller cars in general, consequently there are many well-equipped and even luxurious small cars sold in Europe, including models sold by Mercedes and BMW.<p>
For those in the market for a new, reasonably-priced, fuel-efficient car, Honda has begun <a href="http://automobiles.honda.com/hybrid/" rel="nofollow">the early marketing buzz campaign for their upcoming &nbsp;(but still unnamed) dedicated hybrid model, which will 1st be shown at the Tokyo Auto Show in September and is expected to go on sale early next year. They're making affordability the centerpiece of the campaign, so I'm expecting its starting price to be at or even below $20,000. The Honda Civic Hybrid currently starts at $22,600. Honda has also announced plans to sell a hybrid version of <a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/24/toyota-plans-3-battery-plants-for-hybrid-vehicles/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">the next-gen Honda Fit (though it won't go on sale this Fall when the conventional version does), which I expect to be even less-expensive than the new hybrid model, and <a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/24/toyota-plans-3-battery-plants-for-hybrid-vehicles/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">the CR-Z concept car (no on-sale date announced, though I expect it within 2 years). The next-gen Prius is supposed to be shown for the 1st time at the Detroit Auto Show in January and is expected to go on sale next April. Given that it's rumored to be somewhat larger than the current-gen with a more powerful engine, it may not come down in price much, if at all, though. Toyota has at least one smaller hybrid in the engineering pipeline but who knows when it will come to market.<p>
As for why the Prius is again in such short supply, (according to AutoBlogGreen.com) Toyota's V.P. of Communications Irv Miller explained it this way:<p>
<br>
Last year at this time we required incentives to move the Prius that were accumulating in dealer stock and it was a big month. While the numbers are off for the month compared to last year, we ended the month with less than 1 day supply. You can see that our business is ahead of last year and we are constrained by battery supply on a global basis. With the plant announcements to increase battery production we should be on course to reach the next level with annual Hybrid production.<p>
I expect this to remain the case until Toyota finishes construction on at least one of <a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/24/toyota-plans-3-battery-plants-for-hybrid-vehicles/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">their 2 new battery plants.<p>
I'm in the market for a car myself because I ran into the rearend of a Volvo S80 with my 2000 Honda Insight during rush hour 9 days ago and the estimate to fix it is too high. Unfortunately, I can't afford another used hybrid right now, nor even a budget car like the Yaris. Not sure what I'll end up with, but I'm determined to find a high-MPG used car like the old Honda Civic VX hatchback.

<p>"You can never get enough of what you do not really want." - Huston Smith</p></p></a></p></br></p></p></a></a></a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 14:40:56 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Hope</strong></p><p>One gets used to thinking of the GHG battle as hopeless over the years, especially these bush years. &nbsp;But it does seem that at least it is physically possible to see 90% of our gas guzzling curtailed over the next couple of decades bio-d.</p><p>
Even the capital needed is there, given that long to get it done. &nbsp;</p><p>
Looking at the science and technology and mass production efficiencies, it even looks very profitable.</p><p>
But then a gaggle of lobbyists, board room salesmen and politicians speak up, hehey. &nbsp;Hopelessness returns.</p><p>
Let us always remember and never forget, transportation is 27% of GHG, &nbsp;cars a third of that, &nbsp;heating cooling buildings is 36% of GHG.</p><p>
While waiting on plugin hybrid mass production, we could concentrate on geo heat exchange conservation. &nbsp;</p><p>
Yep, those old SUVs and trucks will become cheap, affordable replacements for businesses that actually need the greater load capacity. &nbsp;I think a good business will pop up for converting them to compressed natural gas. &nbsp;It's a dollar per &nbsp;gallon equivalent to gasoline.</p><p>
Semis might go natural gas too.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Hope</strong></p><p>One gets used to thinking of the GHG battle as hopeless over the years, especially these bush years. &nbsp;But it does seem that at least it is physically possible to see 90% of our gas guzzling curtailed over the next couple of decades bio-d.</p><p>
Even the capital needed is there, given that long to get it done. &nbsp;</p><p>
Looking at the science and technology and mass production efficiencies, it even looks very profitable.</p><p>
But then a gaggle of lobbyists, board room salesmen and politicians speak up, hehey. &nbsp;Hopelessness returns.</p><p>
Let us always remember and never forget, transportation is 27% of GHG, &nbsp;cars a third of that, &nbsp;heating cooling buildings is 36% of GHG.</p><p>
While waiting on plugin hybrid mass production, we could concentrate on geo heat exchange conservation. &nbsp;</p><p>
Yep, those old SUVs and trucks will become cheap, affordable replacements for businesses that actually need the greater load capacity. &nbsp;I think a good business will pop up for converting them to compressed natural gas. &nbsp;It's a dollar per &nbsp;gallon equivalent to gasoline.</p><p>
Semis might go natural gas too.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #15 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 14:47:23 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>I hear you, John<p>but I have owned <a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.stayfreemagazine.org/images/23/pinto.jpg&amp;imgrefurl=http://www.stayfreemagazine.org/archives/23/ford_pinto.html&amp;h=199&amp;w=288&amp;sz=14&amp;hl=en&amp;start=69&amp;um=1&amp;tbnid=C-XmqMIw5cTLuM:&amp;tbnh=79&amp;tbnw=115&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3Dford%2Bpinto%2B%26start%3D60%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DRNWE,RNWE:2006-19,RNWE:en%26sa%3DN" rel="nofollow">four Pintos.<p>
<a href="http://www.stayfreemagazine.org/images/23/pinto.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.stayfreemagazine.org/images/23/pinto.jpg<p>
The Yaris will do. Whoever comes up with a hatchback hybrid that gets over 40 mpg for less than 20 grand will make money hand over fist.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></a></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>I hear you, John<p>but I have owned <a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.stayfreemagazine.org/images/23/pinto.jpg&amp;imgrefurl=http://www.stayfreemagazine.org/archives/23/ford_pinto.html&amp;h=199&amp;w=288&amp;sz=14&amp;hl=en&amp;start=69&amp;um=1&amp;tbnid=C-XmqMIw5cTLuM:&amp;tbnh=79&amp;tbnw=115&amp;prev=/images%3Fq%3Dford%2Bpinto%2B%26start%3D60%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DRNWE,RNWE:2006-19,RNWE:en%26sa%3DN" rel="nofollow">four Pintos.<p>
<a href="http://www.stayfreemagazine.org/images/23/pinto.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.stayfreemagazine.org/images/23/pinto.jpg<p>
The Yaris will do. Whoever comes up with a hatchback hybrid that gets over 40 mpg for less than 20 grand will make money hand over fist.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></a></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #16 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 15:15:42 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Yow<p>At least it didn't light up!<p>
<a href="http://www.savive.com.au/casestudy/fordpinto.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.savive.com.au/casestudy/fordpinto.html

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Yow<p>At least it didn't light up!<p>
<a href="http://www.savive.com.au/casestudy/fordpinto.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.savive.com.au/casestudy/fordpinto.html

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #17 by John Fish Kurmann</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 03:32:45 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>The Yaris is...</strong></p><p>...certainly a big step up from the Pinto in safety, biod, just not as much as the Fit. Of course, you can get a Yaris for a few thousand dollars less than a Fit (though both are in short supply with gasoline at $4/gallon) and life always entails tradeoffs.</p><p>
Looks like Honda will be the 1st to market with "a hatchback hybrid that gets over 40 mpg for less than 20 grand" when they start selling their new hybrid model--and that's less than a year from now, with the hybridized Fit to follow. I expect Toyota will not let Honda stand unchallenged in the "under $20,000" hybrid market for long, either, given their historic rivalry and Toyota's detemination to be the leader in hybrid technology. I know of no plans by any other automaker to sell a 40+ MPG hybrid for under $20,000.

<p>"You can never get enough of what you do not really want." - Huston Smith</p></p>
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				<p><strong>The Yaris is...</strong></p><p>...certainly a big step up from the Pinto in safety, biod, just not as much as the Fit. Of course, you can get a Yaris for a few thousand dollars less than a Fit (though both are in short supply with gasoline at $4/gallon) and life always entails tradeoffs.</p><p>
Looks like Honda will be the 1st to market with "a hatchback hybrid that gets over 40 mpg for less than 20 grand" when they start selling their new hybrid model--and that's less than a year from now, with the hybridized Fit to follow. I expect Toyota will not let Honda stand unchallenged in the "under $20,000" hybrid market for long, either, given their historic rivalry and Toyota's detemination to be the leader in hybrid technology. I know of no plans by any other automaker to sell a 40+ MPG hybrid for under $20,000.

<p>"You can never get enough of what you do not really want." - Huston Smith</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #18 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:41:33 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>That is all very positive news, John<p>There is tremendous pent up demand. Detroit may no longer lead in innovation, but they can copy with the best of them. Our government isn't going to let this industry die. Chatting with my sister-in-law again today (as I dropped her off downtown in the Yaris), she mentioned that she had waited 7 weeks to get her 1985 Tercel because the government was limiting imports (to give Detroit time to get back on its feet).<p>
&nbsp;

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>That is all very positive news, John<p>There is tremendous pent up demand. Detroit may no longer lead in innovation, but they can copy with the best of them. Our government isn't going to let this industry die. Chatting with my sister-in-law again today (as I dropped her off downtown in the Yaris), she mentioned that she had waited 7 weeks to get her 1985 Tercel because the government was limiting imports (to give Detroit time to get back on its feet).<p>
&nbsp;

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #19 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:49:04 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>speaking of hysteria, BioD...</strong></p><p>if you want to add more parts to my "oil hysteria" series (there are only two so far), be my guest -- besides, the original headline was put there by the Powers-That-Be.</p>
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				<p><strong>speaking of hysteria, BioD...</strong></p><p>if you want to add more parts to my "oil hysteria" series (there are only two so far), be my guest -- besides, the original headline was put there by the Powers-That-Be.</p>
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            <title>Comment #20 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/demand-outstripping-supply-again/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 15:11:56 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>I might take you up on that, Jon<p>Been working on a post that would could fit under that headline.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>I might take you up on that, Jon<p>Been working on a post that would could fit under that headline.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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