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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Heinberg raises doubts about coal reserves]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/coal-looks-kinda-hot-but-only-because-america-is-wearing-beer-goggles/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 01:42:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/coal-looks-kinda-hot-but-only-because-america-is-wearing-beer-goggles/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Ah, yes, the &quot;transition-to-next-generation<p>-don't-throw-the-baby-out-with-the-bathwater" argument to support existing environmentally destructive fuels.<p>
It may be tempting to think of coal as a transitional energy source for the next few decades...

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Ah, yes, the &quot;transition-to-next-generation<p>-don't-throw-the-baby-out-with-the-bathwater" argument to support existing environmentally destructive fuels.<p>
It may be tempting to think of coal as a transitional energy source for the next few decades...

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Sean Casten</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/coal-looks-kinda-hot-but-only-because-america-is-wearing-beer-goggles/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 01:55:41 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/coal-looks-kinda-hot-but-only-because-america-is-wearing-beer-goggles/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Huh?</strong></p><p>I was with you until you got to the line:</p><p>
the nation will be spending proportionally much more of its GDP on energy than it does now. Meanwhile, the energy cost of building new infrastructure of any kind will be higher. Therefore it is likely that insufficient investment capital will be available for the large number of new energy projects required.</p><p>
That strikes me as an awfully naive view of capital markets, only true if (a) total capital available for investment is fixed; (b) total capital available for investment in energy assets are fixed and/or (c) total capital available for investment in energy assets is unresponsive to the price of energy.</p><p>
None of those are true. &nbsp;There are good reasons why the coal as a transition fuel argument is bogus, but this isn't one of them.</p>
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				<p><strong>Huh?</strong></p><p>I was with you until you got to the line:</p><p>
the nation will be spending proportionally much more of its GDP on energy than it does now. Meanwhile, the energy cost of building new infrastructure of any kind will be higher. Therefore it is likely that insufficient investment capital will be available for the large number of new energy projects required.</p><p>
That strikes me as an awfully naive view of capital markets, only true if (a) total capital available for investment is fixed; (b) total capital available for investment in energy assets are fixed and/or (c) total capital available for investment in energy assets is unresponsive to the price of energy.</p><p>
None of those are true. &nbsp;There are good reasons why the coal as a transition fuel argument is bogus, but this isn't one of them.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/coal-looks-kinda-hot-but-only-because-america-is-wearing-beer-goggles/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 02:01:48 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/coal-looks-kinda-hot-but-only-because-america-is-wearing-beer-goggles/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Kind of the idea</strong></p><p>Imagine you are an exxonmob or peabody boardroomate. &nbsp;From that POV it would make sense to keep energy prices on the rise enough to sap the political and financial will from your enemies.</p><p>
But not boost energy prices quickly enough to make alternative energy sources cost competitive.</p><p>
It's easier to understand the diversion strategery of "clean" coal and "clean" gas guzzling in this light. &nbsp;They want their earnings to increase every quarter, forever.</p><p>
Beat the competition and that is possible? &nbsp;Beat them anyway you can. &nbsp;"Winning is not the main thing in life, it is the only thing." &nbsp;</p><p>
If renewable energy and conservation actually reduce energy prices? &nbsp;It's 66 cents per gallon to replace gasoline/ethanol with electricity in a plugin hybrid, and wind power is surpassing every other source in terms of low cost grid power.</p><p>
Maybe then the ever rising price strategery would backfire on the old energy economy barons. &nbsp;Low cost distributed power to counter their oil wars and MTR and tar sand cookery. &nbsp;Solar panels on your roof charging your plugin vehicle, hybrid car or bikes. &nbsp;Or powering electric mass transit through the grid.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Kind of the idea</strong></p><p>Imagine you are an exxonmob or peabody boardroomate. &nbsp;From that POV it would make sense to keep energy prices on the rise enough to sap the political and financial will from your enemies.</p><p>
But not boost energy prices quickly enough to make alternative energy sources cost competitive.</p><p>
It's easier to understand the diversion strategery of "clean" coal and "clean" gas guzzling in this light. &nbsp;They want their earnings to increase every quarter, forever.</p><p>
Beat the competition and that is possible? &nbsp;Beat them anyway you can. &nbsp;"Winning is not the main thing in life, it is the only thing." &nbsp;</p><p>
If renewable energy and conservation actually reduce energy prices? &nbsp;It's 66 cents per gallon to replace gasoline/ethanol with electricity in a plugin hybrid, and wind power is surpassing every other source in terms of low cost grid power.</p><p>
Maybe then the ever rising price strategery would backfire on the old energy economy barons. &nbsp;Low cost distributed power to counter their oil wars and MTR and tar sand cookery. &nbsp;Solar panels on your roof charging your plugin vehicle, hybrid car or bikes. &nbsp;Or powering electric mass transit through the grid.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/coal-looks-kinda-hot-but-only-because-america-is-wearing-beer-goggles/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 02:13:47 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/coal-looks-kinda-hot-but-only-because-america-is-wearing-beer-goggles/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>amazin, that's why</strong></p><p>the oil companies/countries don't want the price of oil to be so high, and why Saudi Arabia turned on the spigots in the mid1980s, so that they could kill off renewable energy. &nbsp;They're stuck now because, although apparently you don't believe it, there is only so much oil in the ground, so they will party until the end comes, but they don't want to end to come.</p><p>
By the way, when my family was in Norfolk VA recently, we discovered that Newport News Virginia is the country's largest coal exporting port, it's where the high-quality coal goes from West Virginia, etc., all over the world.</p>
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				<p><strong>amazin, that's why</strong></p><p>the oil companies/countries don't want the price of oil to be so high, and why Saudi Arabia turned on the spigots in the mid1980s, so that they could kill off renewable energy. &nbsp;They're stuck now because, although apparently you don't believe it, there is only so much oil in the ground, so they will party until the end comes, but they don't want to end to come.</p><p>
By the way, when my family was in Norfolk VA recently, we discovered that Newport News Virginia is the country's largest coal exporting port, it's where the high-quality coal goes from West Virginia, etc., all over the world.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/coal-looks-kinda-hot-but-only-because-america-is-wearing-beer-goggles/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 03:14:37 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/coal-looks-kinda-hot-but-only-because-america-is-wearing-beer-goggles/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Diversity Hypocrites<p><br>
You talk about diversity -- how about energy diversity. &nbsp; You only want an energy bi-culture: wind and solar.<p>
Maybe coal can be clean. &nbsp;Maybe it should be 10 percent of energy along with nukes, solar, wind, gas.<p>
Let's have energy diversity!

<p>Oil Is So Hot!
<a href="http://oilismastery.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://oilismastery.blogspot.com
</a></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Diversity Hypocrites<p><br>
You talk about diversity -- how about energy diversity. &nbsp; You only want an energy bi-culture: wind and solar.<p>
Maybe coal can be clean. &nbsp;Maybe it should be 10 percent of energy along with nukes, solar, wind, gas.<p>
Let's have energy diversity!

<p>Oil Is So Hot!
<a href="http://oilismastery.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://oilismastery.blogspot.com
</a></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by KenG</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/coal-looks-kinda-hot-but-only-because-america-is-wearing-beer-goggles/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 03:38:52 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Cause of Quality Decline</strong></p><p>I'll have to follow the links to see if this is explained, but does Heinberg realize that lack of high BTU content coal was not the driver for switching to lower energy value coal? The low energy content western coal is inherently lower in sulpher (and very cheap to mine in strip mines). This makes it a "higher value" fuel when the cost of sulpher clean up is factored in. It's all about the bottom line. </p>
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				<p><strong>Cause of Quality Decline</strong></p><p>I'll have to follow the links to see if this is explained, but does Heinberg realize that lack of high BTU content coal was not the driver for switching to lower energy value coal? The low energy content western coal is inherently lower in sulpher (and very cheap to mine in strip mines). This makes it a "higher value" fuel when the cost of sulpher clean up is factored in. It's all about the bottom line. </p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Paul Hunt</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/coal-looks-kinda-hot-but-only-because-america-is-wearing-beer-goggles/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 06:07:22 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>What the rich people are DOING<p>I hear you all, especially jabailo, on that we need a diverse array of energy solutions to fix our problem but as we've seen Americans go for the quick fix every time. Can anybody name one time we didn't? &nbsp;And this article made me think of another i read little bit ago called <a href="http://www.energyandoil.com/the-coal-to-liquid-debate-part-i" rel="nofollow" title="The Coal to Liquid Debate">The Coal to Liquid Debate and it talks about why people are looking into this as a very real possibility. Its easiest for now, in spite of consequences we're gonna pay with the earth. It sucks but the people with the greatest ability to change our world usually don't do everything they should because of outside pressures. I'm not judging them but, it still sucks</a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>What the rich people are DOING<p>I hear you all, especially jabailo, on that we need a diverse array of energy solutions to fix our problem but as we've seen Americans go for the quick fix every time. Can anybody name one time we didn't? &nbsp;And this article made me think of another i read little bit ago called <a href="http://www.energyandoil.com/the-coal-to-liquid-debate-part-i" rel="nofollow" title="The Coal to Liquid Debate">The Coal to Liquid Debate and it talks about why people are looking into this as a very real possibility. Its easiest for now, in spite of consequences we're gonna pay with the earth. It sucks but the people with the greatest ability to change our world usually don't do everything they should because of outside pressures. I'm not judging them but, it still sucks</a></p></strong></p>
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