<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for How many more deaths will we tolerate?]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Tom Philpott http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/ Tue, 07 Aug 2007 04:52:05 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/1 Yes.

Excellent post, David. As with food, people have little idea of what it takes to bring them their energy; they have been conditioned to blithely expect that it will be there, and cheap.

And as with our government-subsidized cheap-food policy, our government-subsiidized cheap-energy policy depends on layers and layers of exploitation: human and environmental.

Victual Reality

]]> Yes.

Excellent post, David. As with food, people have little idea of what it takes to bring them their energy; they have been conditioned to blithely expect that it will be there, and cheap.

And as with our government-subsidized cheap-food policy, our government-subsiidized cheap-energy policy depends on layers and layers of exploitation: human and environmental.

Victual Reality

]]> Comment #2 by Jon Rynn http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/ Tue, 07 Aug 2007 04:54:11 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/2 More coal news....

...a bunch of coal plants in the Chicago area have finally been told to clean up their act, apparently they were hiding under the grandfathering rule, which has allowed coal emissions to soar by letting people add to old dirty plants instead of building new ones:


Regulators gradually realized many of these older plants had been updated, modified and expanded so many times that they should be considered new plants and forced to comply with tough pollution standards.


]]> More coal news....

...a bunch of coal plants in the Chicago area have finally been told to clean up their act, apparently they were hiding under the grandfathering rule, which has allowed coal emissions to soar by letting people add to old dirty plants instead of building new ones:


Regulators gradually realized many of these older plants had been updated, modified and expanded so many times that they should be considered new plants and forced to comply with tough pollution standards.


]]> Comment #3 by Corey McKrill http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/ Tue, 07 Aug 2007 05:40:50 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/3 and even more coal news...

...politicians are waffling about the cause of a cancer cluster near a coal plant in Delaware (wouldn't want to jump to any conclusions...)

Frequently asked technical questions about Grist's newsletters and website.

]]> and even more coal news...

...politicians are waffling about the cause of a cancer cluster near a coal plant in Delaware (wouldn't want to jump to any conclusions...)

Frequently asked technical questions about Grist's newsletters and website.

]]> Comment #4 by pbearden47 http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/ Tue, 07 Aug 2007 08:14:26 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/4 Queasy

That clip from CNN makes me a bit queasy.  I don't feel the concern for the families, but for the man's business.  Can anyone be that obtuse in the face of tragedy?

Aunt Phyllis

]]> Queasy

That clip from CNN makes me a bit queasy.  I don't feel the concern for the families, but for the man's business.  Can anyone be that obtuse in the face of tragedy?

Aunt Phyllis

]]> Comment #5 by rraimo http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/ Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:16:53 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/5 That guy's a clown, but he's not funny

I saw him on the news getting all excited about how it was an earthquake ("AN EARTHQUAKE!", he repeated) that caused the collapse, not anything he did.  Disgusting.

]]> That guy's a clown, but he's not funny

I saw him on the news getting all excited about how it was an earthquake ("AN EARTHQUAKE!", he repeated) that caused the collapse, not anything he did.  Disgusting.

]]> Comment #6 by Pangolin http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/ Tue, 07 Aug 2007 15:36:23 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/6 There aint' no justice......

because if there were they would march mr. mine owner into his collapsed mine at gunpoint and refuse to let him out until every miner buried came out alive.

To be fair we would give him an old-style mining lamp. The old oil fueled kind that didn't have the screen that prevented methane explosions. And matches, lots of matches.

Put the Carbon Back

]]> There aint' no justice......

because if there were they would march mr. mine owner into his collapsed mine at gunpoint and refuse to let him out until every miner buried came out alive.

To be fair we would give him an old-style mining lamp. The old oil fueled kind that didn't have the screen that prevented methane explosions. And matches, lots of matches.

Put the Carbon Back

]]> Comment #7 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/ Tue, 07 Aug 2007 23:16:09 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/7 Remote control

A mine in Canada now uses remote control mining equipment.   No miners at risk under ground.

In this Utah mine collapse a technique called "retreat" mining was being used.  To save money, no support structure is buiilt in the mine.  Columns of coal are left to do that crucial safety job, then collapsed as the miners retreat from the mine.

Of course the best alternative is to stop using coal and go to wind for baseload power grid generation.  The second best process would be to convert the coal to natural gas under ground.  Imagine the coal lobby going along with either of these alternatives?

Gephart is now a lobbyist for Peabody, the culprit that hauled away "Paradise" in John Prine's famous anti-coal song.

Obama and Edwards want to end lobbying.  Period.  Kucinich would probably not only end it, but put many lobbyists in prison as well.  Kucinich ought to be president.  But the best we can get will be Edwards as attorney general in a Hillary/obama administration.

Kucinich is great where he is at, in the congress.  But senator Kucinich might be even better.  Feingold and Kucinich both in the senate?  Might make some reform actually get acomplished.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Remote control

A mine in Canada now uses remote control mining equipment.   No miners at risk under ground.

In this Utah mine collapse a technique called "retreat" mining was being used.  To save money, no support structure is buiilt in the mine.  Columns of coal are left to do that crucial safety job, then collapsed as the miners retreat from the mine.

Of course the best alternative is to stop using coal and go to wind for baseload power grid generation.  The second best process would be to convert the coal to natural gas under ground.  Imagine the coal lobby going along with either of these alternatives?

Gephart is now a lobbyist for Peabody, the culprit that hauled away "Paradise" in John Prine's famous anti-coal song.

Obama and Edwards want to end lobbying.  Period.  Kucinich would probably not only end it, but put many lobbyists in prison as well.  Kucinich ought to be president.  But the best we can get will be Edwards as attorney general in a Hillary/obama administration.

Kucinich is great where he is at, in the congress.  But senator Kucinich might be even better.  Feingold and Kucinich both in the senate?  Might make some reform actually get acomplished.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #8 by schreinervideo http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/ Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:04:40 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/8 Black Death

I live in Salt Lake City. Utah gets more than 90% of its power from coal. PacifiCorp wants to build a new plant here to sell power to California, Arizona, etc. But more states and communities, including here in Utah, are refusing to buy it, putting the entire project in jeopardy. I just hope the miners are OK, get out and tell the truth, and that this all results in a major change in this state's attitude toward coal and power. My house runs on a solar system we installed this year. It was ridiculously tough getting approval for it. Utah has a serious air pollution problem. This should be additional impetus to accelerate development of safer, cleaner renewable energy of which we have an abundance. But the coal lobby and majority, Republican legislators continue to block it while taking the coal industry's campaign money. A lot more people are going to die from pollution than in Utah's coal mines. That's a real tragedy.

Internet video will save the world!

]]> Black Death

I live in Salt Lake City. Utah gets more than 90% of its power from coal. PacifiCorp wants to build a new plant here to sell power to California, Arizona, etc. But more states and communities, including here in Utah, are refusing to buy it, putting the entire project in jeopardy. I just hope the miners are OK, get out and tell the truth, and that this all results in a major change in this state's attitude toward coal and power. My house runs on a solar system we installed this year. It was ridiculously tough getting approval for it. Utah has a serious air pollution problem. This should be additional impetus to accelerate development of safer, cleaner renewable energy of which we have an abundance. But the coal lobby and majority, Republican legislators continue to block it while taking the coal industry's campaign money. A lot more people are going to die from pollution than in Utah's coal mines. That's a real tragedy.

Internet video will save the world!

]]> Comment #9 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/ Thu, 09 Aug 2007 02:33:59 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/coal-is-the-enemy-of-the-human-race-utah-miners-edition/9 Coal Decreasing in Europe


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20602099&sid=a ...

"Emission Permits Fall as Utilities May Switch From Coal to Gas

By Mathew Carr

Aug. 9 (Bloomberg) -- European Union carbon dioxide allowances fell because power utilities may switch to cleaner- burning natural gas from coal, curbing demand for the permits.

Permits for December 2008 lost 31 cents, or 1.6 percent, to 19.60 euros ($26.84) a metric ton on the European Climate Exchange in Amsterdam at 4:23 p.m. local time. They earlier traded as low as 19.55 euros a ton, their lowest since July 24. "

John Bailo
Supratext:


]]> Coal Decreasing in Europe


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20602099&sid=a ...

"Emission Permits Fall as Utilities May Switch From Coal to Gas

By Mathew Carr

Aug. 9 (Bloomberg) -- European Union carbon dioxide allowances fell because power utilities may switch to cleaner- burning natural gas from coal, curbing demand for the permits.

Permits for December 2008 lost 31 cents, or 1.6 percent, to 19.60 euros ($26.84) a metric ton on the European Climate Exchange in Amsterdam at 4:23 p.m. local time. They earlier traded as low as 19.55 euros a ton, their lowest since July 24. "

John Bailo
Supratext:


]]>