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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for California&#8217;s Prop. 2 spurs big-bucks battle over farm-animal treatment]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by rufwork</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 02:20:28 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Was that an Atari?</strong></p><p>Seems the vote no "prices rising" sound effect came from Pitfall falling down a, well, pit. &nbsp;Nice sampling.</p><p>
Is it evil to suggest an embargo on out of the country eggs? &nbsp;How much does Cali pay for eggs now, anyhow? &nbsp;And what specifically does the CA NAACP say is the motivation for weighing in, and reasoning beyond price of eggs, or was that enough?</p>
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				<p><strong>Was that an Atari?</strong></p><p>Seems the vote no "prices rising" sound effect came from Pitfall falling down a, well, pit. &nbsp;Nice sampling.</p><p>
Is it evil to suggest an embargo on out of the country eggs? &nbsp;How much does Cali pay for eggs now, anyhow? &nbsp;And what specifically does the CA NAACP say is the motivation for weighing in, and reasoning beyond price of eggs, or was that enough?</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by edarnold41</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 03:50:57 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>The Poor take a serious hit</strong></p><p>At my local Dominicks supermart, the difference between the mass-produced eggs and the product from a local, cage-free operation is $1.25 a dozen, a long way from 'a penny an egg.' No big deal for affluent me, potentially a big deal for people trying to feed a big family on minimum wage.<br>
And, of course, if U.S. production of eggs gets outsourced to Mexico, guess whose jobs disappear? The poor (read Undocumented) people who work on those factory farms.<br>
Of course President Obama can always fix this by spreading more wealth around...</br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>The Poor take a serious hit</strong></p><p>At my local Dominicks supermart, the difference between the mass-produced eggs and the product from a local, cage-free operation is $1.25 a dozen, a long way from 'a penny an egg.' No big deal for affluent me, potentially a big deal for people trying to feed a big family on minimum wage.<br>
And, of course, if U.S. production of eggs gets outsourced to Mexico, guess whose jobs disappear? The poor (read Undocumented) people who work on those factory farms.<br>
Of course President Obama can always fix this by spreading more wealth around...</br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by estark</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 04:06:52 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>be kind</strong></p><p>If people really want to be safe from food borne illness and save a buck, don't eat eggs at all. There are much healthier and gentler ways to get protein and make a living. </p><p>
There can never be any justification for what these animals are forced to go through. Simply try to imagine yourself penned up for your entire short life, so tight that you can hardly move. It's nothing short of nightmarish. Empathize.</p>
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				<p><strong>be kind</strong></p><p>If people really want to be safe from food borne illness and save a buck, don't eat eggs at all. There are much healthier and gentler ways to get protein and make a living. </p><p>
There can never be any justification for what these animals are forced to go through. Simply try to imagine yourself penned up for your entire short life, so tight that you can hardly move. It's nothing short of nightmarish. Empathize.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by suzannah</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 06:20:20 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Misleading photo</strong></p><p>Very good, thorough article, but the photo on top of a happy "free range chicken" is misleading. As anyone who has read Michael Pollan's "The Omnivore's Dilemma" can tell you, "free range" chickens rarely see natural daylight. They're typically kept in a dirt indoor space with one small door to a tiny outdoor yard that they're too stupid (sorry chickens) to go through. This is expressed in the article, which notes that the Prop 2 chickens would get to "turn around." It'll be a long time before industrial farm chickens get to roam on healthy grass fields as a matter of course. </p><p>
Promoting the idea that a free range chicken is happy and natural will, I fear, lead to complacent consumers.</p>
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				<p><strong>Misleading photo</strong></p><p>Very good, thorough article, but the photo on top of a happy "free range chicken" is misleading. As anyone who has read Michael Pollan's "The Omnivore's Dilemma" can tell you, "free range" chickens rarely see natural daylight. They're typically kept in a dirt indoor space with one small door to a tiny outdoor yard that they're too stupid (sorry chickens) to go through. This is expressed in the article, which notes that the Prop 2 chickens would get to "turn around." It'll be a long time before industrial farm chickens get to roam on healthy grass fields as a matter of course. </p><p>
Promoting the idea that a free range chicken is happy and natural will, I fear, lead to complacent consumers.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by blooc</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:45:30 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>big families - animal death and environmental dest</strong></p><p>I'm sick of seeing people eat cheap, environmentally disgusting food with chemicals and antibiotics. The poor are poor because they had a giant family on a small income- stupid (sorry people) are destroying the planet by reproducing and then causing more destruction from the cheap food we're giving them. Eggs should cost alot more, along with meat. </p>
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				<p><strong>big families - animal death and environmental dest</strong></p><p>I'm sick of seeing people eat cheap, environmentally disgusting food with chemicals and antibiotics. The poor are poor because they had a giant family on a small income- stupid (sorry people) are destroying the planet by reproducing and then causing more destruction from the cheap food we're giving them. Eggs should cost alot more, along with meat. </p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by marylounoble</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:17:33 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Proposition 2</strong></p><p>As an animal rights activist and a vegetarian who consumes only cage-free eggs occasionally, I, of course, am wholeheartedly in favor of ANY measure that reduces the suffering of animals raised for human consumption of their bodies or their products. &nbsp;I am convinced that consumption of animals is completely unnecessary for humans and presents numerous health hazards, as well. &nbsp;That animals are exploited for the purported benefit of humans is unethical, immoral, and in every sense reprehensible. At the very least, we, as supposedly moral creatures capable of rational thought, must support all efforts to refrain from what cannot possibly be viewed as other than torture of sentient beings.</p><p>
Marylou Noble<br>
Portland, Oregon</p><p>
&nbsp; </br></p>
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				<p><strong>Proposition 2</strong></p><p>As an animal rights activist and a vegetarian who consumes only cage-free eggs occasionally, I, of course, am wholeheartedly in favor of ANY measure that reduces the suffering of animals raised for human consumption of their bodies or their products. &nbsp;I am convinced that consumption of animals is completely unnecessary for humans and presents numerous health hazards, as well. &nbsp;That animals are exploited for the purported benefit of humans is unethical, immoral, and in every sense reprehensible. At the very least, we, as supposedly moral creatures capable of rational thought, must support all efforts to refrain from what cannot possibly be viewed as other than torture of sentient beings.</p><p>
Marylou Noble<br>
Portland, Oregon</p><p>
&nbsp; </br></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by land65</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:57:53 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Very Modest Measure</strong></p><p>A YES vote on prop 2 simply represents giving animals that are raised for food enough room to stand up, turn around and lay down comfortably while they're alive. &nbsp;Nothing, not even cheapness is an excuse to vote against this measure. &nbsp;The 'no' side has built their argument on scare tactics and exaggerations. &nbsp;Yes on 2 is better for our health, our environment and the animals.</p>
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				<p><strong>Very Modest Measure</strong></p><p>A YES vote on prop 2 simply represents giving animals that are raised for food enough room to stand up, turn around and lay down comfortably while they're alive. &nbsp;Nothing, not even cheapness is an excuse to vote against this measure. &nbsp;The 'no' side has built their argument on scare tactics and exaggerations. &nbsp;Yes on 2 is better for our health, our environment and the animals.</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by veronicareid</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 02:54:58 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>If only we could have this option!</strong></p><p>I live in Canada and I am definitely a "poor" student. I live in the Kootenay's where there is a big push to eat local. I always buy local farm eggs and they are not that much more money, they taste better and I feel better eating them. Even at $1.25 more it's well worth it. &nbsp;What is $1.25 these days anyways? In order to make sure that the animal you are eating is well taken care of, healthy and happier. &nbsp;I can't even watch the video of the current conditions, let alone turn a blind eye and consume products from these conditions. &nbsp;Please vote yes, set an example, so that the rest of us in the world can hopefully follow suit and create better conditions for these animals</p>
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				<p><strong>If only we could have this option!</strong></p><p>I live in Canada and I am definitely a "poor" student. I live in the Kootenay's where there is a big push to eat local. I always buy local farm eggs and they are not that much more money, they taste better and I feel better eating them. Even at $1.25 more it's well worth it. &nbsp;What is $1.25 these days anyways? In order to make sure that the animal you are eating is well taken care of, healthy and happier. &nbsp;I can't even watch the video of the current conditions, let alone turn a blind eye and consume products from these conditions. &nbsp;Please vote yes, set an example, so that the rest of us in the world can hopefully follow suit and create better conditions for these animals</p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by amc89</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:50:37 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/cluck-and-cover/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>social justice</strong></p><p>It's really disturbing and strange that the California NAACP would not endorse a measure to restrict factory farming. While the leader of the opposition attempts to paint the measure as "elitist," efforts to combat the industrialization of animal agriculture are anything but. &nbsp;Factory-farmed meat and eggs are cheap for consumers to purchase partly because the companies raising these animals are not the ones that pay for the damage their facilities inflict upon society and the environment. &nbsp;</p><p>
Factory farms are frequently situated in low-income rural areas, where property values often plummet because of the stench and contaminated groundwater that result in the concentration of thousands of animals on relatively small pieces of land. &nbsp;Research has found that residents living near factory farms experience high rates of respiratory problems. &nbsp;American taxpayers typically end up footing the bill for the clean-up costs of the pollution caused by factory farming. </p><p>
Furthermore, looking at the big picture, the livestock sector contributes 37% of global anthropogenic methane, which is 23 times more powerful than carbon dioxide. &nbsp;The methane mainly comes from the enteric fermentation of ruminants such as cows, goats and sheep. In addition, the livestock sector contributes 9% of carbon dioxide emissions. If we want to be serious about reducing climate change we have to eat further down the food chain as well as farm more sustainably. &nbsp;Most experts predict that it will be poor nations that suffer the most from climate change. &nbsp; &nbsp; </p><p>
It's not like eggs, pork chops and veal are a necessity in one's diet. If the price goes up, there's plenty of affordable substitutes. In baking, I use mashed banana or ground flax seed mixed with water to substitute eggs, and the great thing about egg substitutes is that you can eat the batter or cookie dough and not worry about salmonella. Tofu is another health and inexpensive egg substitute that does not come with the risk of salmonella.</p><p>
Bottom line-Californians concerned about both human rights and animal suffering should vote Yes on Proposition 2 on Election Day. &nbsp;Those of us not in California can also support farm animals, the environment and the communities impacted by factory farming by encouraging our legislators to support policies similar to Proposition 2 and by reducing and refining the animal products in our diets.</p>
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				<p><strong>social justice</strong></p><p>It's really disturbing and strange that the California NAACP would not endorse a measure to restrict factory farming. While the leader of the opposition attempts to paint the measure as "elitist," efforts to combat the industrialization of animal agriculture are anything but. &nbsp;Factory-farmed meat and eggs are cheap for consumers to purchase partly because the companies raising these animals are not the ones that pay for the damage their facilities inflict upon society and the environment. &nbsp;</p><p>
Factory farms are frequently situated in low-income rural areas, where property values often plummet because of the stench and contaminated groundwater that result in the concentration of thousands of animals on relatively small pieces of land. &nbsp;Research has found that residents living near factory farms experience high rates of respiratory problems. &nbsp;American taxpayers typically end up footing the bill for the clean-up costs of the pollution caused by factory farming. </p><p>
Furthermore, looking at the big picture, the livestock sector contributes 37% of global anthropogenic methane, which is 23 times more powerful than carbon dioxide. &nbsp;The methane mainly comes from the enteric fermentation of ruminants such as cows, goats and sheep. In addition, the livestock sector contributes 9% of carbon dioxide emissions. If we want to be serious about reducing climate change we have to eat further down the food chain as well as farm more sustainably. &nbsp;Most experts predict that it will be poor nations that suffer the most from climate change. &nbsp; &nbsp; </p><p>
It's not like eggs, pork chops and veal are a necessity in one's diet. If the price goes up, there's plenty of affordable substitutes. In baking, I use mashed banana or ground flax seed mixed with water to substitute eggs, and the great thing about egg substitutes is that you can eat the batter or cookie dough and not worry about salmonella. Tofu is another health and inexpensive egg substitute that does not come with the risk of salmonella.</p><p>
Bottom line-Californians concerned about both human rights and animal suffering should vote Yes on Proposition 2 on Election Day. &nbsp;Those of us not in California can also support farm animals, the environment and the communities impacted by factory farming by encouraging our legislators to support policies similar to Proposition 2 and by reducing and refining the animal products in our diets.</p>
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