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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Umbra on chlorine]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by AskPablo</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 02:41:36 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Danger of Chlorine<p>Hello Umbra!<p>
Did you know that the US chlorine industry is a major source of mercury emissions? You can find out all about this in a report by &nbsp;<a href="http://www.oceana.org/north-america/publications/reports/poison-plants-ii/" rel="nofollow">Oceana.<p>
I used to work as an engineer in the ozone generator industry and have performed a material intensity analysis (using an LCA tool called MIPS)on ozone generation vs. chlorine in pool sanitation. The ozone comes out far ahead in the numbers but does even better in the qualitative results. You don't even know it's there, and when it's done oxidizing the "bather load" it simply turns back into O2. <p>
Cheers!<p>
Pablo<br>
AskPablo.org</br></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Danger of Chlorine<p>Hello Umbra!<p>
Did you know that the US chlorine industry is a major source of mercury emissions? You can find out all about this in a report by &nbsp;<a href="http://www.oceana.org/north-america/publications/reports/poison-plants-ii/" rel="nofollow">Oceana.<p>
I used to work as an engineer in the ozone generator industry and have performed a material intensity analysis (using an LCA tool called MIPS)on ozone generation vs. chlorine in pool sanitation. The ozone comes out far ahead in the numbers but does even better in the qualitative results. You don't even know it's there, and when it's done oxidizing the "bather load" it simply turns back into O2. <p>
Cheers!<p>
Pablo<br>
AskPablo.org</br></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by cnplum</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 03:04:38 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Chlorine: It's not just in the pool</strong></p><p>I am in the process of adding a whole house activated carbon filter to because of the chlorine that is added by the local water provider. &nbsp;I moved into my house in Silver Spring, MD last summer after living over 20 years on well water, and I found that I could smell the chlorine in the air every time I took a shower or did laundry. &nbsp;The chlorine level out of the tap is 2.5 ppm: both 'safe' (according to water standards) and also higher than I ever maintained in my swimming pool when I had one (no more than 1 ppm). <br>
&nbsp;</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Chlorine: It's not just in the pool</strong></p><p>I am in the process of adding a whole house activated carbon filter to because of the chlorine that is added by the local water provider. &nbsp;I moved into my house in Silver Spring, MD last summer after living over 20 years on well water, and I found that I could smell the chlorine in the air every time I took a shower or did laundry. &nbsp;The chlorine level out of the tap is 2.5 ppm: both 'safe' (according to water standards) and also higher than I ever maintained in my swimming pool when I had one (no more than 1 ppm). <br>
&nbsp;</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by misvickie2</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 03:22:57 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Chlorine in Pools</strong></p><p>Last summer I visited my aunt &amp; uncle who have just retired to Palm Springs. They have a new house with a built in swimming pool only they don't use chlorine in their pool they use a salt instead. From what I am told it keeps it just as santized. There might be a little more upkeep to it compared to chlorine but it seems a lot more user friendly for the atmosphere. And you can still open your eyes under water without any burning.</p>
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				<p><strong>Chlorine in Pools</strong></p><p>Last summer I visited my aunt &amp; uncle who have just retired to Palm Springs. They have a new house with a built in swimming pool only they don't use chlorine in their pool they use a salt instead. From what I am told it keeps it just as santized. There might be a little more upkeep to it compared to chlorine but it seems a lot more user friendly for the atmosphere. And you can still open your eyes under water without any burning.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by greyowl</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 03:28:32 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Chlorine</strong></p><p>Chlorine is powerful bactericide, the alternatives are even nastier. &nbsp;Thus you will find all sorts of household products that contain bleach. &nbsp;Suprisingly this is one of the major sources of chlorine in municiple waste streams. &nbsp;There are a few things one can do to eliminate household chlorine. &nbsp; Use sodium percarbonate as a bleach/cleaner, when it breaks down it produces water and sodium carbonate. &nbsp;Good old soap does a decent job of killing bacteria.</p><p>
We are stuck with chlorine for drinking water, or chlorine dioxide. &nbsp;Besides the usual bacteria, one can now find viri such as Hep A in the water. &nbsp;Not cool. &nbsp;I would much rather consume a little chlorine than catch Hep A.</p><p>
Bob<br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Chlorine</strong></p><p>Chlorine is powerful bactericide, the alternatives are even nastier. &nbsp;Thus you will find all sorts of household products that contain bleach. &nbsp;Suprisingly this is one of the major sources of chlorine in municiple waste streams. &nbsp;There are a few things one can do to eliminate household chlorine. &nbsp; Use sodium percarbonate as a bleach/cleaner, when it breaks down it produces water and sodium carbonate. &nbsp;Good old soap does a decent job of killing bacteria.</p><p>
We are stuck with chlorine for drinking water, or chlorine dioxide. &nbsp;Besides the usual bacteria, one can now find viri such as Hep A in the water. &nbsp;Not cool. &nbsp;I would much rather consume a little chlorine than catch Hep A.</p><p>
Bob<br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by rglater</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 05:48:51 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Chlorine</strong></p><p>Did you notice the Google Ads that came up when viewing the article?</p><p>
I wonder if any of them work and are any better for us or the environment?<br>
RD</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Chlorine</strong></p><p>Did you notice the Google Ads that came up when viewing the article?</p><p>
I wonder if any of them work and are any better for us or the environment?<br>
RD</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by linden</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:37:11 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Chlorine v. iodine</strong></p><p>See discussion of iodine displacement in the human body by chlorine (and other halogens) at jcrows.com</p><p>
Linden</p>
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				<p><strong>Chlorine v. iodine</strong></p><p>See discussion of iodine displacement in the human body by chlorine (and other halogens) at jcrows.com</p><p>
Linden</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by CyberBrook</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 23:38:36 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>dioxins<p><b>Here's my takeaway message:<p>
To avoid dioxins and other persistent organic pollutants (POPs), Umbra says the risk of pool water is unclear, but the risk of meat and milk, where dioxins bioaccumulate, are clear.<p>
Of course, there are MANY other risks associated with meat and milk. You know, things from heart disease, cancer, stroke, diabetes, and gout to global warming, deforestation, loss of topsoil, and water pollution. Little stuff like that. <p>
But if those things don't bother you, then have a cow and don't worry about it.<p>
If you're even slightly concerned about your health and the health of life on Earth, please take a look at <a href="http://www.brook.com/veg" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Eco-Eating: Eating as if the Earth Matters<br>
<a href="http://www.brook.com/veg" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.brook.com/veg <br>
</br></a></br></a></p></p></p></p></b></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>dioxins<p><b>Here's my takeaway message:<p>
To avoid dioxins and other persistent organic pollutants (POPs), Umbra says the risk of pool water is unclear, but the risk of meat and milk, where dioxins bioaccumulate, are clear.<p>
Of course, there are MANY other risks associated with meat and milk. You know, things from heart disease, cancer, stroke, diabetes, and gout to global warming, deforestation, loss of topsoil, and water pollution. Little stuff like that. <p>
But if those things don't bother you, then have a cow and don't worry about it.<p>
If you're even slightly concerned about your health and the health of life on Earth, please take a look at <a href="http://www.brook.com/veg" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Eco-Eating: Eating as if the Earth Matters<br>
<a href="http://www.brook.com/veg" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.brook.com/veg <br>
</br></a></br></a></p></p></p></p></b></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by GaGa</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 23:47:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>swimming and chlorine</strong></p><p>Have you thought about swimming in a lake? &nbsp;I have to believe there are some around Ottawa.</p>
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				<p><strong>swimming and chlorine</strong></p><p>Have you thought about swimming in a lake? &nbsp;I have to believe there are some around Ottawa.</p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by andrewjoslyn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 00:36:08 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Cryptosporidium</strong></p><p>I'm pretty sure that cryptosporidium is not a bacterium, it is a protozoan, and it is a big problem because it can be much more difficult to kill in disinfection systems than many bacteria are because it can create cysts that are resistant to chlorine. &nbsp;So try not to swallow that pool water if you can avoid it!</p>
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				<p><strong>Cryptosporidium</strong></p><p>I'm pretty sure that cryptosporidium is not a bacterium, it is a protozoan, and it is a big problem because it can be much more difficult to kill in disinfection systems than many bacteria are because it can create cysts that are resistant to chlorine. &nbsp;So try not to swallow that pool water if you can avoid it!</p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by SnoDragon</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 07:30:04 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>Salt water</strong></p><p>I, too, have heard about and read articles about saline pools. They're supposed to be better for your skin (soft water) and the salt content makes it difficult if not impossible for dangerous bacteria to survive.</p><p>
Saline pools can be cheaper than chlorine pools, too, because you don't have to buy expensive chemicals and check the pH constantly.</p><p>
If I ever have a pool, I want it to be a saline one.</p><p>
If you're going to do lakes or rivers, make sure they're not polluted (or, as unpolluted as possible)! Swimming in a river just downstream from a paper mill would be far worse than swimming in a chlorine pool. Think of all the bleach and dioxins!</p><p>
Maybe the mom could take her kids to a spa instead? :)</p>
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				<p><strong>Salt water</strong></p><p>I, too, have heard about and read articles about saline pools. They're supposed to be better for your skin (soft water) and the salt content makes it difficult if not impossible for dangerous bacteria to survive.</p><p>
Saline pools can be cheaper than chlorine pools, too, because you don't have to buy expensive chemicals and check the pH constantly.</p><p>
If I ever have a pool, I want it to be a saline one.</p><p>
If you're going to do lakes or rivers, make sure they're not polluted (or, as unpolluted as possible)! Swimming in a river just downstream from a paper mill would be far worse than swimming in a chlorine pool. Think of all the bleach and dioxins!</p><p>
Maybe the mom could take her kids to a spa instead? :)</p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by AskPablo</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:32:18 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>Saline Pools</strong></p><p>Most "saline pools" use an electrolysis device that converts the NaCl in the water into Chlorine (and Na2). I believe, like ozone, it reverts back to NaCl when it is done oxidizing the bad stuff. When used in combination with ozone (like in Del Ozone's TrioPure) it is an extremely effective sanitation system and vastly better than a chlorinated pool. Usually the salt levels are below the taste threshold.</p>
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				<p><strong>Saline Pools</strong></p><p>Most "saline pools" use an electrolysis device that converts the NaCl in the water into Chlorine (and Na2). I believe, like ozone, it reverts back to NaCl when it is done oxidizing the bad stuff. When used in combination with ozone (like in Del Ozone's TrioPure) it is an extremely effective sanitation system and vastly better than a chlorinated pool. Usually the salt levels are below the taste threshold.</p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by Earth Shaman</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 04:10:29 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/12</guid>
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				<p><strong>Chlorine Inhalation</strong></p><p>You also get quite a hit of the chlorine gas from showering in city water.They have screw on chlorine filters for the shower.I use nothing except ozone in my hot tub as chlorine ingestion into hot open pores is really deadly.</p>
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				<p><strong>Chlorine Inhalation</strong></p><p>You also get quite a hit of the chlorine gas from showering in city water.They have screw on chlorine filters for the shower.I use nothing except ozone in my hot tub as chlorine ingestion into hot open pores is really deadly.</p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by Liara Covert</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:25:29 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/chlorine/13</guid>
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				<p><strong>Consider the alternatives</strong></p><p>It's true most household cleaning products contain chlorine. As chlorine is in some way connected with many products we consume, its almost impossible to avoid. &nbsp;Why not read labels and minimize usage? &nbsp;Desirable actions would stick to simple cleansers like natural soap, bicarb soda and vinegar, and avoid using products made from PVC and PVDC. They aren't easily disposed of when their usefulness has ended. Polyethelene is a safer substitute.</p><p>
As for chlorine &nbsp;as a disinfectant in swimming pools, its useful to reflect on how much is going too far? The whole safety thing can be overdone. Cleaning and sterilising things for children can lead to serious allergies and other issues later in life. We swim at the beach. If kids build no immunity, they become more susceptible to other diseases or reactions. What is it with the trend of treating minor sniffles with strong medicines and anti-biotics? Why not minimize chlorine in pools and consider alternatives? Think of eco-friendly fish tanks. Chlorine would kill the fish. <br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Consider the alternatives</strong></p><p>It's true most household cleaning products contain chlorine. As chlorine is in some way connected with many products we consume, its almost impossible to avoid. &nbsp;Why not read labels and minimize usage? &nbsp;Desirable actions would stick to simple cleansers like natural soap, bicarb soda and vinegar, and avoid using products made from PVC and PVDC. They aren't easily disposed of when their usefulness has ended. Polyethelene is a safer substitute.</p><p>
As for chlorine &nbsp;as a disinfectant in swimming pools, its useful to reflect on how much is going too far? The whole safety thing can be overdone. Cleaning and sterilising things for children can lead to serious allergies and other issues later in life. We swim at the beach. If kids build no immunity, they become more susceptible to other diseases or reactions. What is it with the trend of treating minor sniffles with strong medicines and anti-biotics? Why not minimize chlorine in pools and consider alternatives? Think of eco-friendly fish tanks. Chlorine would kill the fish. <br>
</br></p>
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