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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Wind power in China is &#8216;huge, huge, huge&#8217;]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by piglet</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/china_wind/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:19:37 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/china_wind/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>WIND POWER AND ENERGY...</strong></p><p>Millions of birds have been killed by wind turbines...birds are an important part of our ecosystem and help maintain balance with our crucial biodiversity. &nbsp; Do these large windfarms cropping up everywhere in China, Texas, Massachusets, UK, etc. take this into account and what about the likelihood of weather pattern changes as we change the windcurrents with the large wind farms? &nbsp;Are we thinking this through to the ultimate outcome or will we have another biofuel debacle where we rushed in not accounting for the excessive use of water, energy and eventually pushing up grain prices worldwide?<br>
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				<p><strong>WIND POWER AND ENERGY...</strong></p><p>Millions of birds have been killed by wind turbines...birds are an important part of our ecosystem and help maintain balance with our crucial biodiversity. &nbsp; Do these large windfarms cropping up everywhere in China, Texas, Massachusets, UK, etc. take this into account and what about the likelihood of weather pattern changes as we change the windcurrents with the large wind farms? &nbsp;Are we thinking this through to the ultimate outcome or will we have another biofuel debacle where we rushed in not accounting for the excessive use of water, energy and eventually pushing up grain prices worldwide?<br>
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            <title>Comment #2 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/china_wind/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:38:40 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/china_wind/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>blah blah blah<p>Piglet,<p>
3 California wind farms featuring OLD turbine designs, with a large variety of heights, and have small quick blades, are the cause of almost all bird deaths from US wind turbines. Altamont Pass alone makes up more than half the deaths.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/birddeaths.png" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/birddeaths.png<br>
<a href="http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11935&amp;page=71" rel="nofollow">http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11935&amp;pag ...<p>
And on top of that, house cats, and buildings make up gigantic orders of magnitude more bird deaths per year. &nbsp;<br>
Should we get rid of those too?<br>
<a href="http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=48393" rel="nofollow">http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=483 ...</a></br></br></p></a></br></a></br></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>blah blah blah<p>Piglet,<p>
3 California wind farms featuring OLD turbine designs, with a large variety of heights, and have small quick blades, are the cause of almost all bird deaths from US wind turbines. Altamont Pass alone makes up more than half the deaths.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/birddeaths.png" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/birddeaths.png<br>
<a href="http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11935&amp;page=71" rel="nofollow">http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11935&amp;pag ...<p>
And on top of that, house cats, and buildings make up gigantic orders of magnitude more bird deaths per year. &nbsp;<br>
Should we get rid of those too?<br>
<a href="http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=48393" rel="nofollow">http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=483 ...</a></br></br></p></a></br></a></br></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by piglet</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/china_wind/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 04:39:55 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/china_wind/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>WIND TURBINES AND BIRD DEATHS<p>Thanks David for this info. &nbsp;Birds are a crucial player in our ecosystem, as are all species. &nbsp;If we keep killing them off without regard for their role in the greater eco scheme of things (in this case their flight paths) and disregard the natural symbiotic relationships in nature we are going to be living in a very different world, and may even put human survival at risk. &nbsp;Note the little insect, bee, whom we depend upon to pollinate for our fruits and veges...(see <a href="http://www.thedailygreen.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thedailygreen.com 8.1.08 re pesticides and honey bees)<br>
All I am saying is that before we go charging off into new technology we take into account the impact on the whole natural organic bio-diversity and eco-systems that we humans depend on for our very survival. The more we mess with Mother Nature the worse things seem to get..and the house of cards begins to collapse. We can co-exist..we just need to be more mindful of the entire picture and change our short-term thinking. &nbsp;Every species is relevant in its own right and deserves the same respect and understanding that we demand for ourselves. It is up to we humans to be good stewards, we are at the top of the food chain, remember. Thanks again David.</br></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>WIND TURBINES AND BIRD DEATHS<p>Thanks David for this info. &nbsp;Birds are a crucial player in our ecosystem, as are all species. &nbsp;If we keep killing them off without regard for their role in the greater eco scheme of things (in this case their flight paths) and disregard the natural symbiotic relationships in nature we are going to be living in a very different world, and may even put human survival at risk. &nbsp;Note the little insect, bee, whom we depend upon to pollinate for our fruits and veges...(see <a href="http://www.thedailygreen.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thedailygreen.com 8.1.08 re pesticides and honey bees)<br>
All I am saying is that before we go charging off into new technology we take into account the impact on the whole natural organic bio-diversity and eco-systems that we humans depend on for our very survival. The more we mess with Mother Nature the worse things seem to get..and the house of cards begins to collapse. We can co-exist..we just need to be more mindful of the entire picture and change our short-term thinking. &nbsp;Every species is relevant in its own right and deserves the same respect and understanding that we demand for ourselves. It is up to we humans to be good stewards, we are at the top of the food chain, remember. Thanks again David.</br></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/china_wind/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 05:22:01 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/china_wind/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Trust Audobon<p><a href="http://www.audubon.org/campaign/windPowerQA.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.audubon.org/campaign/windPowerQA.html<p>
This is helpful on wind related bird endangerment.<p>
I would still ilke to see an impact cushioning surface on wind machine blades. &nbsp;It's worth the extra cost and effort.<p>
And webcam studies of what is actually happening regarding bird collisions with wind equipment. Bird scientists need financial support to get these studies done. &nbsp;The more that is known, the quicker this can be minimized.</p></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Trust Audobon<p><a href="http://www.audubon.org/campaign/windPowerQA.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.audubon.org/campaign/windPowerQA.html<p>
This is helpful on wind related bird endangerment.<p>
I would still ilke to see an impact cushioning surface on wind machine blades. &nbsp;It's worth the extra cost and effort.<p>
And webcam studies of what is actually happening regarding bird collisions with wind equipment. Bird scientists need financial support to get these studies done. &nbsp;The more that is known, the quicker this can be minimized.</p></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Warren Heath</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/china_wind/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 04:44:22 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/china_wind/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Birds &amp; Bats<p>The issue is that in the rural areas bird and bat kills by the wind turbines and their associated high voltage transmission lines, as well as disruptions to their natural behavior, will have impact on the local ecosystems. This will include significant effects on insect population, since birds and bats consume large quantities of insects, which are harmful to vegetation, livestock and crops. This is orders of magnitude greater than the effects of cats or buildings in these local regions. <p>
It is erroneous and misleading to compare numbers of birds &amp; bats killed in cities, with birds &amp; bats killed in the rural areas where the turbines are located. In some regions, large numbers of rare raptors like golden eagles are being killed, it is hardly sensible to compare one golden eagle killed by a Wind Turbine in Altamont Pass, to a sparrow killed by a house cat in Los Angeles. House cats kill the weakest and smallest of birds, aiding in the natural selection process, and are balanced by the fact that many city residents, feed large numbers of birds.<p>
Florida Power &amp; Light Co. abruptly cut off funding for a study of wind turbine bat kills and blocked access to researchers at all of it's industrial wind turbine facilities, when it became apparent the large number of bat kills by the turbines. Sounds like industrial Wind Turbine Companies have something to hide:<p>
<br>
"...Bats are incredibly important to humans and the ecosystem as a whole; each bat consumes approximately 2,000 insects nightly, and a lactating female bat will consume up to 3,000 insects each night..."<br>
"... If the 900 or so turbines proposed are built within a 70-mile radius [of Mountaineer] prior to finding solutions, it's very easy to extrapolate from this data that close to 60,000 bats could be killed every year," Tuttle said. "That's very likely not an ecologically sustainable kill rate; it's urgent to find a solution..."<p>
<a href="http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2005/06/09/substantial-bat-kills-at-regions-windpower-facilities-study-says/" rel="nofollow"> FPL blocks research on Bat Kills by it's Industrial Wind Turbine Facilities <p>
Well I guess, we can just increase our use of environmentally destructive insecticides to make up for all of the dead birds and bats in rural areas.<p>
<a href="http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2008/07/24/new-data-shows-bird-kills-up-in-altamont/" rel="nofollow"> Raptor kills by Wind Turbines in Altamont Pass <br>
</br></a></p></p></a></p></br></br></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Birds &amp; Bats<p>The issue is that in the rural areas bird and bat kills by the wind turbines and their associated high voltage transmission lines, as well as disruptions to their natural behavior, will have impact on the local ecosystems. This will include significant effects on insect population, since birds and bats consume large quantities of insects, which are harmful to vegetation, livestock and crops. This is orders of magnitude greater than the effects of cats or buildings in these local regions. <p>
It is erroneous and misleading to compare numbers of birds &amp; bats killed in cities, with birds &amp; bats killed in the rural areas where the turbines are located. In some regions, large numbers of rare raptors like golden eagles are being killed, it is hardly sensible to compare one golden eagle killed by a Wind Turbine in Altamont Pass, to a sparrow killed by a house cat in Los Angeles. House cats kill the weakest and smallest of birds, aiding in the natural selection process, and are balanced by the fact that many city residents, feed large numbers of birds.<p>
Florida Power &amp; Light Co. abruptly cut off funding for a study of wind turbine bat kills and blocked access to researchers at all of it's industrial wind turbine facilities, when it became apparent the large number of bat kills by the turbines. Sounds like industrial Wind Turbine Companies have something to hide:<p>
<br>
"...Bats are incredibly important to humans and the ecosystem as a whole; each bat consumes approximately 2,000 insects nightly, and a lactating female bat will consume up to 3,000 insects each night..."<br>
"... If the 900 or so turbines proposed are built within a 70-mile radius [of Mountaineer] prior to finding solutions, it's very easy to extrapolate from this data that close to 60,000 bats could be killed every year," Tuttle said. "That's very likely not an ecologically sustainable kill rate; it's urgent to find a solution..."<p>
<a href="http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2005/06/09/substantial-bat-kills-at-regions-windpower-facilities-study-says/" rel="nofollow"> FPL blocks research on Bat Kills by it's Industrial Wind Turbine Facilities <p>
Well I guess, we can just increase our use of environmentally destructive insecticides to make up for all of the dead birds and bats in rural areas.<p>
<a href="http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2008/07/24/new-data-shows-bird-kills-up-in-altamont/" rel="nofollow"> Raptor kills by Wind Turbines in Altamont Pass <br>
</br></a></p></p></a></p></br></br></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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