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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Will hard-won environmental and social gains survive China&#8217;s economic rise?]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by bookerly</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/china1/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:40:56 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/china1/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Some thoughts from China<p>Disclosure: &nbsp;I am an American, living and working in China. &nbsp;I like it here. &nbsp;So, I may have a bias. &nbsp;It is nice to read about China from people who visited it (a lot of what I read seems to be by people who have never been here). &nbsp;If you want to know more about China, you might start with reading some English language newspaper web sites.<p>
<a href="http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/home/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/home/index.html<p>
is a good start. &nbsp;Before you dismiss it as full of government propaganda, you should go and read the article today (8/26/05) about Chinese farmers protesting lead coming from a factory and after a year, winning a victory. &nbsp;A lot of poor people in the US who live near factories that pollute should take note!<p>
You can also read the PLA daily newspaper<p>
<a href="http://english.chinamil.com.cn/" rel="nofollow">http://english.chinamil.com.cn/<p>
and the people's daily<p>
<a href="http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/" rel="nofollow">http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/<p>
which today featured a story about sustainable economic development which began "Premier Wen said Wednesday China will focus its efforts to push forward economic, social and institutional reforms for sustainable economic development." &nbsp;Read these not just once in a while but consistently, and you will develop an idea of what the Chinese government and people think (there is no "one way" that the Chinese people think, of course, there are many different opinions and ideas).<p>
To understand China, you should not try to fit it's society and institutions solely into a western frame. &nbsp;I found the quote from Friedman laughable "We have slipped into a symbiotic relationship with another major power that is neither a free market nor a democracy." &nbsp;The language suggests that America is also not a democracy or a free market. &nbsp;Perhaps if Americans read more about how the rest of the world sees us, we would not be so ready to tell everyone what to do (in a variety of languages, there are new slang terms for Americans, all of which translate roughly into "those who always must be/believe they are 'right'"). <p>
China faces tremendous problems. &nbsp;It acknowledges them. (Which puts it ahead of the United States, which is largely in denial about the environment). &nbsp;There are many causes for concern, and many reasons to worry. &nbsp;The challenge of growing the economy so that people can have a good life, while protecting the environment and addressing social issues is daunting. &nbsp;No one has ever done it. But there are reasons for optimism.<p>
One of which is that Chinese culture values the importance of man living in harmony with nature (rather than conquering nature as is the Western view). &nbsp;Having taught over three thousand students &nbsp;since I have been here, I have been deeply impressed with the love of nature, and the desire to build a fair well off society that many (not all) of them share. &nbsp;(I have taught scientists from SINOPEC, and they were very much interested in sustainability).<p>
I thought this article was a little better than most, but still reflecting a bias against China that shows the difficulty Westerners have in seeing it clearly. &nbsp;China is not a developed country. &nbsp;It is a poor developing country, which means that judging it by the same standards as you judge yourselves is unfair. &nbsp;Chinese institutions will not "ape" American ones, but will develop according to their own needs. &nbsp;<p>
The authors said "We must use the oft-claimed leverage gained by engaging China as a trade partner to help its leaders and citizens fight for new rights and responsibilities. Otherwise, we risk having our own undermined."<p>
Unfortunately this comes across more like "we must use our wealth to tell poorer people how they should behave". &nbsp;The Chinese (and others) resent what is often seen as American arrogance and bullying.<p>
Does America want to help?? &nbsp;Good!! &nbsp;Begin by endorsing the Kyoto treaty. &nbsp;Next require American corporations to abide by American standards for labor and the environment when they operate abroad (although in a growing number of cases, they should adopt the stronger standards that other nations have). &nbsp;Stop shipping American garbage to poor nations. &nbsp;Stop shipping American poisons to poor nations. &nbsp;Invest in sustainable energy technology and share it with the world (a better use for our wealth than bombs and missles). &nbsp;This would help everyone more than telling others what to do.<p>
As China grows into world leadership economically, it also will play greater roles politically. &nbsp;Having the largest military will not help America make friends with other countries, when it's foreign and trade policies are designed only to benefit itself. &nbsp;One of the great unnoticed stories in the American press is that China is developing ties not only with developed countries, but with developing countries, and making friends at the same time. &nbsp;But doing so on the basis of "win-win" rather than "if you are not with us, you are against us".<p>
I encourage your readers to not spout homilies about China, nor to be afraid of it, but rather to learn about it first. &nbsp;Most Americans know almost nothing about this country, and that is a shame.</p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></a></p></p></a></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Some thoughts from China<p>Disclosure: &nbsp;I am an American, living and working in China. &nbsp;I like it here. &nbsp;So, I may have a bias. &nbsp;It is nice to read about China from people who visited it (a lot of what I read seems to be by people who have never been here). &nbsp;If you want to know more about China, you might start with reading some English language newspaper web sites.<p>
<a href="http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/home/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/home/index.html<p>
is a good start. &nbsp;Before you dismiss it as full of government propaganda, you should go and read the article today (8/26/05) about Chinese farmers protesting lead coming from a factory and after a year, winning a victory. &nbsp;A lot of poor people in the US who live near factories that pollute should take note!<p>
You can also read the PLA daily newspaper<p>
<a href="http://english.chinamil.com.cn/" rel="nofollow">http://english.chinamil.com.cn/<p>
and the people's daily<p>
<a href="http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/" rel="nofollow">http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/<p>
which today featured a story about sustainable economic development which began "Premier Wen said Wednesday China will focus its efforts to push forward economic, social and institutional reforms for sustainable economic development." &nbsp;Read these not just once in a while but consistently, and you will develop an idea of what the Chinese government and people think (there is no "one way" that the Chinese people think, of course, there are many different opinions and ideas).<p>
To understand China, you should not try to fit it's society and institutions solely into a western frame. &nbsp;I found the quote from Friedman laughable "We have slipped into a symbiotic relationship with another major power that is neither a free market nor a democracy." &nbsp;The language suggests that America is also not a democracy or a free market. &nbsp;Perhaps if Americans read more about how the rest of the world sees us, we would not be so ready to tell everyone what to do (in a variety of languages, there are new slang terms for Americans, all of which translate roughly into "those who always must be/believe they are 'right'"). <p>
China faces tremendous problems. &nbsp;It acknowledges them. (Which puts it ahead of the United States, which is largely in denial about the environment). &nbsp;There are many causes for concern, and many reasons to worry. &nbsp;The challenge of growing the economy so that people can have a good life, while protecting the environment and addressing social issues is daunting. &nbsp;No one has ever done it. But there are reasons for optimism.<p>
One of which is that Chinese culture values the importance of man living in harmony with nature (rather than conquering nature as is the Western view). &nbsp;Having taught over three thousand students &nbsp;since I have been here, I have been deeply impressed with the love of nature, and the desire to build a fair well off society that many (not all) of them share. &nbsp;(I have taught scientists from SINOPEC, and they were very much interested in sustainability).<p>
I thought this article was a little better than most, but still reflecting a bias against China that shows the difficulty Westerners have in seeing it clearly. &nbsp;China is not a developed country. &nbsp;It is a poor developing country, which means that judging it by the same standards as you judge yourselves is unfair. &nbsp;Chinese institutions will not "ape" American ones, but will develop according to their own needs. &nbsp;<p>
The authors said "We must use the oft-claimed leverage gained by engaging China as a trade partner to help its leaders and citizens fight for new rights and responsibilities. Otherwise, we risk having our own undermined."<p>
Unfortunately this comes across more like "we must use our wealth to tell poorer people how they should behave". &nbsp;The Chinese (and others) resent what is often seen as American arrogance and bullying.<p>
Does America want to help?? &nbsp;Good!! &nbsp;Begin by endorsing the Kyoto treaty. &nbsp;Next require American corporations to abide by American standards for labor and the environment when they operate abroad (although in a growing number of cases, they should adopt the stronger standards that other nations have). &nbsp;Stop shipping American garbage to poor nations. &nbsp;Stop shipping American poisons to poor nations. &nbsp;Invest in sustainable energy technology and share it with the world (a better use for our wealth than bombs and missles). &nbsp;This would help everyone more than telling others what to do.<p>
As China grows into world leadership economically, it also will play greater roles politically. &nbsp;Having the largest military will not help America make friends with other countries, when it's foreign and trade policies are designed only to benefit itself. &nbsp;One of the great unnoticed stories in the American press is that China is developing ties not only with developed countries, but with developing countries, and making friends at the same time. &nbsp;But doing so on the basis of "win-win" rather than "if you are not with us, you are against us".<p>
I encourage your readers to not spout homilies about China, nor to be afraid of it, but rather to learn about it first. &nbsp;Most Americans know almost nothing about this country, and that is a shame.</p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></a></p></p></a></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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		<item>
            <title>Comment #2 by David Roberts</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/china1/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:55:52 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/china1/2</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Great comment, bookerly</strong></p><p>Thanks for sharing it.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Great comment, bookerly</strong></p><p>Thanks for sharing it.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
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