<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Umbra on washing your car]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Saucerman http://www.grist.org/article/car-wash/ Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:49:08 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/car-wash/1 Overstated water use

So they say it takes 116 gallons of water to wash a car - are these the same people that estimate 2-3 gallons to brush your teeth? I wash my MINI Cooper every few weeks with a bucket (and Dr. Bronner's) and spray nozzle hose, and nary a drop reaches the street or the storm drain. I use less than 5 gallons of water. I brush my teeth with 1/2 glass of water, not 2-3 gallons.

Falcon Water-free Urinals claims that one urinal saves 40,000 gallons of water per year. That's 25,000 flushes at 1.6 gal, or 68 leaks a day, 7 days a week. That is a whole lotta piss!

It doesn't do the conservation case any good at all to grossly exaggerate these baseline usage numbers. It merely adds fodder for the skeptics. I would ask Umbra and others to be more careful about these things...

]]> Overstated water use

So they say it takes 116 gallons of water to wash a car - are these the same people that estimate 2-3 gallons to brush your teeth? I wash my MINI Cooper every few weeks with a bucket (and Dr. Bronner's) and spray nozzle hose, and nary a drop reaches the street or the storm drain. I use less than 5 gallons of water. I brush my teeth with 1/2 glass of water, not 2-3 gallons.

Falcon Water-free Urinals claims that one urinal saves 40,000 gallons of water per year. That's 25,000 flushes at 1.6 gal, or 68 leaks a day, 7 days a week. That is a whole lotta piss!

It doesn't do the conservation case any good at all to grossly exaggerate these baseline usage numbers. It merely adds fodder for the skeptics. I would ask Umbra and others to be more careful about these things...

]]> Comment #2 by bstimer http://www.grist.org/article/car-wash/ Tue, 22 Aug 2006 04:49:28 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/car-wash/2 Waterfree Urinal Data Holds Water

While we understand the confusion over our claim of an average of 40,000 gallons of water savings per year per Falcon Waterfree urinal, we feel it important to explain it as the number is based on actual field experience.  

AVERAGES - The estimated savings that we cite is based on an average of the life cycle cost analyses that have been conducted for thousands of facilities around the world. These facilities consist of every imaginable type of urinal and amount of "customer" traffic. Some facilities average less than 40,000 gallons per urinal per year, while others such as airport terminals demonstrate higher than average savings.

FACT - The Colorado Springs Airport installed water meters on the feed lines that served their flush urinals as part of their feasibility study for waterfree urinals. After three months of normal traffic, the average water use was determined to be 46,223 gallons per urinal per year.

REGULATION - The U.S. Energy Policy Act of 1992 requires that new urinals must not exceed 1 gallon per flush, but does not require that high-volume flushers be replaced. As a result, urinal flush volumes in the United States range from one gallon or less to several gallons per flush.

JIMMIED VALVES - Low volume flush valves normally cannot generate enough velocity and volume to create a good flush in high volume urinal fixtures. To remedy this, the valves are often adjusted to allow a greater volume of water in each flush.

LEAKS - One drop per second is estimated to waste 3,000 gallons per year. A small stream = 60,000. A flush valve or flapper than is stuck open = 600,000 gallons per year. According to the Third World Centre for Water Management in Mexico City, "In nearly all the megacities nearly 40 to 60 percent (of water) never reaches the consumer" because of leaks and poor maintenance (http://www.enn.com/today.html?id=11106). It's uncommon for a leak to run on for an entire year, but numerous small leaks in a large facility can accumulate tremendous waste.

DOUBLE FLUSHERS confound us, but they exist. Some guys flush the urinal before they start to use it and again when they're done. Maybe they like that moisturizing mist of the bacteria laden flush plume.

Regardless of the stated average water savings, we guarantee that Falcon Waterfree urinals will save 100% of the water that is needlessly flushed away by water-fed urinals and we stand by the results that our customers experience.

]]> Waterfree Urinal Data Holds Water

While we understand the confusion over our claim of an average of 40,000 gallons of water savings per year per Falcon Waterfree urinal, we feel it important to explain it as the number is based on actual field experience.  

AVERAGES - The estimated savings that we cite is based on an average of the life cycle cost analyses that have been conducted for thousands of facilities around the world. These facilities consist of every imaginable type of urinal and amount of "customer" traffic. Some facilities average less than 40,000 gallons per urinal per year, while others such as airport terminals demonstrate higher than average savings.

FACT - The Colorado Springs Airport installed water meters on the feed lines that served their flush urinals as part of their feasibility study for waterfree urinals. After three months of normal traffic, the average water use was determined to be 46,223 gallons per urinal per year.

REGULATION - The U.S. Energy Policy Act of 1992 requires that new urinals must not exceed 1 gallon per flush, but does not require that high-volume flushers be replaced. As a result, urinal flush volumes in the United States range from one gallon or less to several gallons per flush.

JIMMIED VALVES - Low volume flush valves normally cannot generate enough velocity and volume to create a good flush in high volume urinal fixtures. To remedy this, the valves are often adjusted to allow a greater volume of water in each flush.

LEAKS - One drop per second is estimated to waste 3,000 gallons per year. A small stream = 60,000. A flush valve or flapper than is stuck open = 600,000 gallons per year. According to the Third World Centre for Water Management in Mexico City, "In nearly all the megacities nearly 40 to 60 percent (of water) never reaches the consumer" because of leaks and poor maintenance (http://www.enn.com/today.html?id=11106). It's uncommon for a leak to run on for an entire year, but numerous small leaks in a large facility can accumulate tremendous waste.

DOUBLE FLUSHERS confound us, but they exist. Some guys flush the urinal before they start to use it and again when they're done. Maybe they like that moisturizing mist of the bacteria laden flush plume.

Regardless of the stated average water savings, we guarantee that Falcon Waterfree urinals will save 100% of the water that is needlessly flushed away by water-fed urinals and we stand by the results that our customers experience.

]]> Comment #3 by lyrivyzy http://www.grist.org/article/car-wash/ Tue, 22 Aug 2006 07:14:33 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/car-wash/3 Parked Cars

Actually, in my area, I'd be inclined to say a parked car is a car covered in pine needles and dirt. However, I've owned my car for three years and I have never washed the outside of it except the windows. Unless you're in the desert, it'll rain sometime.
happiness,
Lizzzzzz

]]> Parked Cars

Actually, in my area, I'd be inclined to say a parked car is a car covered in pine needles and dirt. However, I've owned my car for three years and I have never washed the outside of it except the windows. Unless you're in the desert, it'll rain sometime.
happiness,
Lizzzzzz

]]> Comment #4 by bookerly http://www.grist.org/article/car-wash/ Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:06:36 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/car-wash/4 Washing bicycles


   I generally don't wash my bicycle, let the rain wash it, or use a piece of dry paper to rub off the loose dirt.  Works pretty well.

   Of course, I don't get those high status thrills from my transportation mode.  (LOL).

patrick

]]> Washing bicycles


   I generally don't wash my bicycle, let the rain wash it, or use a piece of dry paper to rub off the loose dirt.  Works pretty well.

   Of course, I don't get those high status thrills from my transportation mode.  (LOL).

patrick

]]> Comment #5 by cleanfreakchemicalfree http://www.grist.org/article/car-wash/ Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:22:24 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/car-wash/5 best way to wash your car!!!

not only does this work better...but use just water and this fibre...

in regions that have a water shortage, or for those who care about water usage and our world...pull your car onto your lawn, hose it down, use an ENJO garage glove [cleans better than any car wash and takes half the time], dry it off, pull your car back onto the street or driveway and there...you've watered your lawn and cleaned your car...and since you're not using ANY chemicals, you've wasted nothing, you've bought nothing, you';ve thrown away nothing and you can let your kids help without exposing them also to harmful chemicals.

Yes, I do sell the product. But, my motivation is pure. You can visit http://www.enjo.net to read all about the fibres for yourself. And - the US is still serviced from Canada...but not for long as the buzz is growing!

]]> best way to wash your car!!!

not only does this work better...but use just water and this fibre...

in regions that have a water shortage, or for those who care about water usage and our world...pull your car onto your lawn, hose it down, use an ENJO garage glove [cleans better than any car wash and takes half the time], dry it off, pull your car back onto the street or driveway and there...you've watered your lawn and cleaned your car...and since you're not using ANY chemicals, you've wasted nothing, you've bought nothing, you';ve thrown away nothing and you can let your kids help without exposing them also to harmful chemicals.

Yes, I do sell the product. But, my motivation is pure. You can visit http://www.enjo.net to read all about the fibres for yourself. And - the US is still serviced from Canada...but not for long as the buzz is growing!

]]> Comment #6 by cleanfreakchemicalfree http://www.grist.org/article/car-wash/ Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:24:01 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/car-wash/6 try this

an ENJO glove...cheaper and you'll even use less water...and certainly save on any chemicals harmful or "safe"

]]> try this

an ENJO glove...cheaper and you'll even use less water...and certainly save on any chemicals harmful or "safe"

]]> Comment #7 by athada http://www.grist.org/article/car-wash/ Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:36:09 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/car-wash/7 Life Cycle Analysis anyone?

I know the Grist community (and Grist) knows about Life Cycle Analyses - especially that most issues are very complex and sometimes are counterintuitive.

On car washing, for example, here we're worrying mostly about 2 environmental impacts of car-washing: water use and soap contamination. A huge factor that was never mentioned is the construction of car wash facilities! At least at home most people already have most of the materials to wash a car (a concrete slab, a hose), whereas at a car wash you have an entire facility built to serve one purpose - a facility that needs maintenance, electricity, etc.

As for soap suds going to the waste water plant, yes the water isn't contaminated by the plant is also sucking electricity, polluting, etc.

I know for the sake of our collective sanity we have to simplify sometimes, but we have to face the troubling facts and not allow enviro-critics to point out our oversimplification.

]]> Life Cycle Analysis anyone?

I know the Grist community (and Grist) knows about Life Cycle Analyses - especially that most issues are very complex and sometimes are counterintuitive.

On car washing, for example, here we're worrying mostly about 2 environmental impacts of car-washing: water use and soap contamination. A huge factor that was never mentioned is the construction of car wash facilities! At least at home most people already have most of the materials to wash a car (a concrete slab, a hose), whereas at a car wash you have an entire facility built to serve one purpose - a facility that needs maintenance, electricity, etc.

As for soap suds going to the waste water plant, yes the water isn't contaminated by the plant is also sucking electricity, polluting, etc.

I know for the sake of our collective sanity we have to simplify sometimes, but we have to face the troubling facts and not allow enviro-critics to point out our oversimplification.

]]>